↗ Live site
Preview: a read-only copy of the forum. To post or reply, use the current forum.

What is conscience?

73 posts · 9 participants · started Aug 5, 2016, 9:00 PM

  1. Is conscience a reliable guide in decision-making, as in “Let your conscience be your guide”?

    Apparently Jesus, age 17, could not in clear conscience join a nationalist political party coming into existence at that time – the Zealots.

    127:2:8  Something had to be done. He must state his position, and this he did bravely and diplomatically to the satisfaction of many, but not all. He adhered to the terms of his original plea, maintaining that his first duty was to his family, that a widowed mother and eight brothers and sisters needed something more than mere money could buy — the physical necessities of life — that they were entitled to a father’s watchcare and guidance, and that he could not in clear conscience release himself from the obligation which a cruel accident had thrust upon him. He paid compliment to his mother and eldest brother for being willing to release him but reiterated that loyalty to a dead father forbade his leaving the family no matter how much money was forthcoming for their material support, making his never-to-be-forgotten statement that “money cannot love.” In the course of this address Jesus made several veiled references to his “life mission” but explained that, regardless of whether or not it might be inconsistent with the military idea, it, along with everything else in his life, had been given up in order that he might be able to discharge faithfully his obligation to his family. Everyone in Nazareth well knew he was a good father to his family, and this was a matter so near the heart of every noble Jew that Jesus’ plea found an appreciative response in the hearts of many of his hearers; and some of those who were not thus minded were disarmed by a speech made by James, which, while not on the program, was delivered at this time. That very day the chazan had rehearsed James in his speech, but that was their secret.
    Here is an example of being unbothered in conscience.
    185:0:4  Although these Jews were not at all bothered in conscience as they intrigued to effect the judicial murder of Jesus, they were nonetheless scrupulous regarding all these matters of ceremonial cleanness and traditional regularity. And these Jews have not been the only ones to fail in the recognition of high and holy obligations of a divine nature while giving meticulous attention to things of trifling importance to human welfare in both time and eternity.
    One more example of how the word is used in the UB.
    156:2:7  Said Jesus: “My disciples must not only cease to do evil but learn to do well; you must not only be cleansed from all conscious sin, but you must refuse to harbor even the feelings of guilt. If you confess your sins, they are forgiven; therefore must you maintain a conscience void of offense.”
    Conscience must be something, because it is to be kept void of offense once it is cleansed from all conscious sin.
    What do you think?
  2. I believe that somewhere in the revelation we are told that conscience is not God or other divine entity talking to us.

    my guess it is something that is part of our evolving humanity.

  3. my guess it is something that is part of our evolving humanity.

    What is the purpose of conscience?

  4. Mara,

    I suspect it is related to the fact relationship with God is always present tense; we have past experience and future potential.  Conscience is present awareness.  We store experiences in sub-conscious mind and these can be recalled by thought, perhaps stimulated by an event, such as a new outside influence, or even another thought.  Present decision-action on an idea, perhaps brought up from sub-conscious, must happen in present tense.  Present tense awareness could be of a past decision-judgement stored in memory.  Present tense conscious may include value, meanings, and hope while attributing desire for something.  In Jesus’ case he could not in present tense conscious decide to accept the Zealots’ temptations to join while in conscious awareness he wanted something better for his family.  His conscious present tense decisions were of the higher values he knew would be best.  And he had time to consider multiple offers.

    Remember, conscious is mind on active duty!

    Does this help?  This is a good question you have here and I’d like to see more input.  You and others!!!!

  5. This is a good question you have here and I’d like to see more input. You and others!!!!

     

    Agreed

  6. my guess it is something that is part of our evolving humanity.

    What is the purpose of conscience?

    possibly conscience is more of a consequence as opposed to having purpose.

    experience and decisions.

  7. In Jesus’ case he could not in present tense conscious decide to accept the Zealots’ temptations to join while in conscious awareness he wanted something better for his family.  His conscious present tense decisions were of the higher values he knew would be best.

    I kinda like how you talk about present tense decisions.  Jesus’ case is unique in “that he could not in clear conscience release himself from the obligation which a cruel accident had thrust upon him.”  A “clear conscience” implies its opposite: a conscience that is not clear.  I think one can be conscious of one’s conscience, but the conscious and conscience are not interchangeable.

  8. possibly conscience is more of a consequence as opposed to having purpose.

    Maybe so.

    Maybe it’s an attitude of mind that can govern decisions and behavior.

  9. The conscience is the place where we determine right and wrong based upon our experience, culture, social cues and education.  It is the primary source of guilt.  Conscience and some amount of guilt are necessary for the ego to function in society but it is not always the guiding motivation for soul growth  because the conscience is our own mind judging our selves and suggesting solutions; it is not always God’s mind.  God teaches us through spiritual insight which is much different.

    The conscience deals with issues of morality and ethics.  It is a function of the higher adjutants and the soil from which soul growth material is fostered.  The conscience is part of the material mind which sets man aside from the lower animals.  The conscience is where the struggles between right and wrong occur and the impetus to pray often arises.  The angels are busy directing us into situations of conscience which is why they say the urge to pray most often arises out of angelic influence.

    As part of the human psyche, the conscience also provides the fuel for movement in the psychic circles.  It provides the choices necessary for the decisions that propel us forward.  It’s an ingenious system.  But in order for this to happen, conscience must be guided by higher spirit influences.  Conscience itself is not divine, it is merely the workshop where conflicts between right and wrong are brought to awareness, or discovered.  They must then be sent to a higher source for resolution, and the resolution is always God’s will.

    Awareness, or discovery, of moral conflict is the beginning of developing spiritual insight. If you remember the three cosmic insights, morality is in the middle, it has to do with philosophical reasoning with the mind.  The next level is spiritual insight, which is where the “voice of God” or the “pilot light” sheds light on the issues the moral conscience recognizes as needing a more spiritual solution.  And this is how we shift dominance from the material, moral conscience, to the spiritual influence within the soul.

    So anyway, that’s it in a nutshell, a pretty simplistic introduction.  Do you folks want all the quotes? There are tons.  Let me know.

  10. Conscience?

    Thanks Bonita.  I was reminded of a mental scale where one might weigh the rightness or wrongness of a decision a priori.  After the fact though, if a decision was unwise and regret ensues, the experiential memory can linger on and the memory of it can add to one’s regrets in life.  The stupid thing is to make the same error over and over again.  Maybe a better saying would be, “Let wisdom be your guide.”

    Conscience is present awareness.

    I think it develops over time and can be refined by learning.  The stinging prick of conscience, as in “. .. Judas was pricked in his conscience about his traitorous conduct. . .” might only be learned after experience.

  11. As it appears conscience is a material thing, mental defects or other traumas can explain why some people appear to be without it.

     

  12. Here’s an interesting quote which shows the relationship between conscience and revelation.

    95:3.2 Moral evolution is not wholly dependent on revelation. High moral concepts can be derived from man’s own experience. Man can even evolve spiritual values and derive cosmic insight from his personal experiential living because a divine spirit indwells him. Such natural evolutions of conscience and character were also augmented by the periodic arrival of teachers of truth, in ancient times from the second Eden, later on from Melchizedek’s headquarters at Salem.

    It appears that conscience evolves, not unlike wisdom, which is also augmented by revelation.

  13. Gene wrote: As it appears conscience is a material thing, mental defects or other traumas can explain why some people appear to be without it.

    That’s a good observation Gene.  I’ve often wondered how it is that some people seem to have so little conscience, immoral bordering on amoral.  I think they are the antisocial, defectives TUB tells us to round up and put in their place.

    I don’t know what causes it though. Some might be due to physical problems with the brain or trauma, but not all. There are many people who delight in being immoral, who get a sick kind of pleasure from being naughty.  (My ex-husband comes to mind.)  It could be that the adjutants of spirit and wisdom  have trouble making contact with some of these folks.  Either that or they deliberately ignore or inhibit them for some kind of emotional gain, warped or otherwise.  I would love it if everyone in this world had a healthy conscience, but alas, it is not so.  Far from it. There are far too many with either over developed, or under developed consciences.

    The moral issues we have in today’s society are very trying to the conscience.  No one knows what to do when it comes to some dilemmas of morality which used to be controlled by religion.  Now religion is the victim and people feel as though there should be no moral standards because they’re too limiting.  That makes for troubling times.  The conscience does have to evolve, individually and collectively.  It really has to be dealt with regardless of the cause.

    BTW, I think Freud called the conscience the Superego.

  14. Moral codes were developed to focus people collectively on what was relatively right and wrong at the time.

    66:7:8  Hap presented the early races with a moral law. This code was known as “The Father’s Way” and consisted of the following seven commands:
    93:4:6  The seven commandments promulgated by Melchizedek were patterned along the lines of the ancient Dalamatian supreme law and very much resembled the seven commands taught in the first and second Edens. These commands of the Salem religion were:
    But other codes, the early Hebrews for example,  permitted discrimination in their dealings with the gentiles.  (69:4:3)  I think it has to do with the in-group vs the out-group.  The out-group could be discriminated against with so-called impunity.  I noted one example in my first post – 185:0:4 .  The conscience of the Sanhedrin vacated the group-think when they murdered Jesus.  Their conscience, as a group, was not aroused according to what we know.  But Jesus lead a unique out-group.
    .
     I think the golden rule is a personal and group aspirational code, and by living it gets us another step toward light and life.  I suppose a person could use the golden rule as a standard by which to measure the development of one’s conscience.  Or not, and just let tradition or current public opinion define one’s standards of conscience.  Maybe the golden rule as revealed to us in the book is the gold standard of conscience for the era of the fifth epochal.
     .
    Perhaps when Jesus released the animals in the temple yard and turned over the tables of the money changers in the temple yard, he experienced a powerful arousal of conscience in the wrongness of what was taking place there, and afterwards said, “. . .’My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations, but you have made it a den of robbers.’”
  15. Bonita, thanks for your refreshing “description-in-a-nutshell”.  You wrote:

    [B]  “Conscience itself is not divine, it is merely the workshop where conflicts between right and wrong are brought to awareness, or discovered.”

    In relation to our larger “mind arena of choice“, I think your workshop notion puts “human conscience” in its proper place.

    [B]  “I would love it if everyone in this world had a healthy conscience, but alas, it is not so. Far from it. There are far too many with either over developed, or under developed consciences.”

    “… with either over developed, or under developed consciences”?  So not only can a workshop be untidy, it can be too tidy? Brings to mind (1021.4, 93:6.8): while Abraham was thoroughly sincere, “he was not overly pious“.    :-)

     

  16. Nigel Nunn wrote: “… with either over developed, or under developed consciences”?  So not only can a workshop be untidy, it can be too tidy? Brings to mind (1021.4, 93:6.8): while Abraham was thoroughly sincere, “he was not overly pious“.

    That’s an interesting way to look at it.  Are piety and conscience related?  I’ll have to think about it.  I was actually thinking of this quote about failure of personality unification resulting in a misguided and overdeveloped conscious.  They say it causes serious injury to the self.  Those are pretty potent words, don’t you think?

    103:2.10 Man tends to identify the urge to be self-serving with his ego — himself. In contrast he is inclined to identify the will to be altruistic with some influence outside himself — God. And indeed is such a judgment right, for all such nonself desires do actually have their origin in the leadings of the indwelling Thought Adjuster, and this Adjuster is a fragment of God. The impulse of the spirit Monitor is realized in human consciousness as the urge to be altruistic, fellow-creature minded. At least this is the early and fundamental experience of the child mind. When the growing child fails of personality unification, the altruistic drive may become so overdeveloped as to work serious injury to the welfare of the self. A misguided conscience can become responsible for much conflict, worry, sorrow, and no end of human unhappiness.

    My understanding is that the conscience becomes misguided because of the inability to develop a well-balanced and coordinated integration of the three basic constituents of reality as described in 16:6.(Cosmic Mind).

    16:6.10 These three basic factors in reflective thinking may be unified and co-ordinated in personality development, or they may become disproportionate and virtually unrelated in their respective functions. But when they become unified, they produce a strong character consisting in the correlation of a factual science, a moral philosophy, and a genuine religious experience. And it is these three cosmic intuitions that give objective validity, reality, to man’s experience in and with things, meanings, and values.

    16:7.5 When man fails to discriminate the ends of his mortal striving, he finds himself functioning on the animal level of existence.

    .

     

  17. Bonita wrote:

    [B]  “That’s an interesting way to look at it. Are piety and conscience related? I’ll have to think about it. I was actually thinking of this quote about failure of personality unification resulting in a misguided and overdeveloped conscious. They say it causes serious injury to the self. Those are pretty potent words, don’t you think?”

    Indeed!  Your quote is one I was trying to find when looking for three comments regarding what we might call “misguided social sensibilities”. When I came across Abraham’s being “not overly pious“, I thought that worth adding to the mix.

    If we think of piety being connected with (A) private moral expectations, (B) prevailing social assumptions, and (C) intuitive insight into judicial form of the cosmic discrimination, then “piety” becomes a curious tool in the old workshop.

    (793.2, 70:8.10) […] the piety and mysticism of the priests have long perpetuated them as a separate social group.

    Curiouser and curiouser.

     

  18. Nigel Nunn wrote: If we think of piety being connected with (A) private moral expectations, (B) prevailing social assumptions, and (C) intuitive insight into judicial form of the cosmic discrimination, then “piety” becomes a curious tool in the old workshop.

    This reminds me of the difference between righteousness and self-righteousness.  There must be sincere piety and false piety.  I would think false piety and self-righteousness are in the same family.  But are they from an over developed conscience or a misguided conscience?  Or both?

    In regards to the workshop, righteousness and piety come from a desire to do good which begins at the adjutant level of thinking. Self-righteousness and false piety, I’m guessing, never make it up to soul level thinking through spiritual insight.  The spirit of worship is what gets the mind thinking about right and wrong, but it’s up to the personality to look both to outer human laws which dictate right and wrong behavior and inner divine laws which urge the personality to opt for the one that brings it closer to the highest form of the golden rule, spiritual love, the more Godlike option.

    5:5.14 A human mind discerning right and wrong and possessing the capacity to worship God, in union with a divine Adjuster, is all that is required in that mortal to initiate and foster the production of his immortal soul of survival qualities if such a spirit-endowed individual seeks God and sincerely desires to become like him, honestly elects to do the will of the Father in heaven.

    As a side note, there may be more curiouser things going on, as you say Nigel.  We have run across a few people in the TUB community (actually more than a few) who are filled with self-righteousness because they believe they have gone all the way to the top and got the word directly from God himself . They go about preaching and establishing churches and causing all kinds of mischief.  Is that due to an over developed conscience or self-delusion and egotism, or both? I don’t know, but I digress.

    Following the letter of the law of the human moral code in regards to religion could certainly make one feel pious if all they are going by is a high human moral standard.  And that high moral standard could be set by either religious or secular institutions. Which is why they mention the kingdom of good can fool people’s consciences into thinking it’s the kingdom of God.  The kingdom of good is a human level of goodness, the kingdom of God is a divine level of goodness.  And a divine level of goodness is unconscious, therefore the conscience is most likely bypassed, I would guess. How else would you insure that it be “void of offense”?

    This is another reason why I think Zuimon, who claims the only way to be Godlike is to examine and embrace all your feelings, even the negative ones, is full of baloney.  Self-examination is examination of the conscience.  It is low level thinking which continues to bring up old offenses.  How can you maintain a conscience void of offense if your spiritual life centers around human feelings? How can you clean your conscience of offense with the same dirty rag you used to fill it up?  I don’t get it. But I digress again, sorry.

    I don’t see anything wrong with following the highest human moral standards to keep your conscience from bothering you, but there is still a higher standard to be sought after, what is truly right. And that can only be found with sincerity and humility, like a child.  So smug self-righteousness and false piety could never get you there, not in a million years.

    p1207:7  110:5.1  Do not confuse and confound the mission and influence of the Adjuster with what is commonly called conscience; they are not directly related. Conscience is a human and purely psychic reaction. It is not to be despised, but it is hardly the voice of God to the soul, which indeed the Adjuster’s would be if such a voice could be heard. Conscience, rightly, admonishes you to do right; but the Adjuster, in addition, endeavors to tell you what truly is right; that is, when and as you are able to perceive the Monitor’s leading.

    In regards to the cosmic insights contributing to a balanced personality, the judicial form of cosmic discrimination involves  the recognition of right and wrong, a sixth adjutant function. But I believe philosophy is also supposed to involve the seventh, wisdom.  Once the adjutant of wisdom is utilized, all the benefits of experience combine, and then the spirit of wisdom urges the mind to look even higher for solutions. At this point, the gateway to the soul can be opened, which would make it possible to utilize the worshipful form of discrimination to help discern what is truly right.  Or, the person can be satisfied with the adjutant level and never try for anything higher.  I think that is what they mean by stagnating due to cultural slavery.

    101.7.4  The great difference between a religious and a nonreligious philosophy of living consists in the nature and level of recognized values and in the object of loyalties. There are four phases in the evolution of religious philosophy: Such an experience may become merely conformative, resigned to submission to tradition and authority. Or it may be satisfied with slight attainments, just enough to stabilize the daily living, and therefore becomes early arrested on such an adventitious level. Such mortals believe in letting well enough alone. A third group progress to the level of logical intellectuality but there stagnate in consequence of cultural slavery. It is indeed pitiful to behold giant intellects held so securely within the cruel grasp of cultural bondage. It is equally pathetic to observe those who trade their cultural bondage for the materialistic fetters of a science, falsely so called. The fourth level of philosophy attains freedom from all conventional and traditional handicaps and dares to think, act, and live honestly, loyally, fearlessly, and truthfully.

     

     

     

  19. Do you think PTSD is a conscience thing?

  20. Do you think PTSD is a conscience thing?

    Depends on the cause. Post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury often coexist because brain injuries are frequently sustained in traumatic experiences. It doesn’t take much of a brain injury to cause problems in processing emotion.  If there is actual physical injury, then the conscience may play a role in the manifestation of symptoms without being the cause.  The biggest problem in treating PTSD is ignoring the fact that it may be caused by even minimal brain trauma.  Too often it is treated as a psychological problem and treated with a pharmacy of psyche drugs which only make the brain malfunction worse.  It’s a messy situation and our vets are so often the victims of this oversight.

Reply on the current forum

↑ Back to top