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Urantia Book eugenics

82 posts · 15 participants · started Jul 31, 2017, 12:36 PM

BonitaParticipant
Aug 3, 2017, 3:37 PM

Gene wrote:

Taking a tangent here – I read so much about all of the beings that inhabit our local universe that are committed to helping us in so many different capacities and we cannot even see or hear or otherwise contact one of them. Isolation is a beach. Isolation is hurting us.

Oh bullcrap! (not sure I’m allowed to use that word). Ponder on these quotes:

50.7.1 7. THE REWARDS OF ISOLATION On first thought it might appear that Urantia and its associated isolated worlds are most unfortunate in being deprived of the beneficent presence and influence of such superhuman personalities as a Planetary Prince and a Material Son and Daughter. But isolation of these spheres affords their races a unique opportunity for the exercise of faith and for the development of a peculiar quality of confidence in cosmic reliability which is not dependent on sight or any other material consideration. It may turn out, eventually, that mortal creatures hailing from the worlds quarantined in consequence of rebellion are extremely fortunate. We have discovered that such ascenders are very early intrusted with numerous special assignments to cosmic undertakings where unquestioned faith and sublime confidence are essential to achievement.

114.5.4 This rather loosely organized and somewhat personally administered planetary government is more than expectedly effective because of the timesaving assistance of the archangels and their ever-ready circuit, which is so frequently utilized in planetary emergencies and administrative difficulties. Technically, the planet is still spiritually isolated in the Norlatiadek circuits, but in an emergency this handicap can now be circumvented through utilization of the archangels’ circuit. Planetary isolation is, of course, of little concern to individual mortals since the pouring out of the Spirit of Truth upon all flesh nineteen hundred years ago.

184.4.6 These are the moments of the Master’s greatest victories in all his long and eventful career as maker, upholder, and savior of a vast and far-flung universe. Having lived to the full a life of revealing God to man, Jesus is now engaged in making a new and unprecedented revelation of man to God. Jesus is now revealing to the worlds the final triumph over all fears of creature personality isolation. The Son of Man has finally achieved the realization of identity as the Son of God. Jesus does not hesitate to assert that he and the Father are one; and on the basis of the fact and truth of that supreme and supernal experience, he admonishes every kingdom believer to become one with him even as he and his Father are one. The living experience in the religion of Jesus thus becomes the sure and certain technique whereby the spiritually isolated and cosmically lonely mortals of earth are enabled to escape personality isolation, with all its consequences of fear and associated feelings of helplessness. In the fraternal realities of the kingdom of heaven the faith sons of God find final deliverance from the isolation of the self, both personal and planetary. The God-knowing believer increasingly experiences the ecstasy and grandeur of spiritual socialization on a universe scale — citizenship on high in association with the eternal realization of the divine destiny of perfection attainment.

34:7.6 Notwithstanding this double disaster to man’s nature and his environment, present-day mortals would experience less of this apparent warfare between the flesh and the spirit if they would enter the spirit kingdom, wherein the faith sons of God enjoy comparative deliverance from the slave-bondage of the flesh in the enlightened and liberating service of wholehearted devotion to doing the will of the Father in heaven. Jesus showed mankind the new way of mortal living whereby human beings may very largely escape the dire consequences of the Caligastic rebellion and most effectively compensate for the deprivations resulting from the Adamic default. “The spirit of the life of Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of animal living and the temptations of evil and sin.” “This is the victory that overcomes the flesh, even your faith.”
Van AmadonParticipant
Aug 3, 2017, 3:43 PM

Bonita wrote:

I’d like to add that TUB tells us that even an excellent social environment can do little to improve a base heredity. And this is why we will eventually need to learn how to recognize a base heredity and learn what to do about it. That does not mean killing people, i.e. genocide, (notice the reference to genes (race) in the word genocide). TUB gave us a hint on how to handle it: biological disfellowshipping. This does not mean ostracizing people and herding them into ghettos either. Biological disfellowshipping has to do with elimination of a certain gene pool by disallowing reproduction. We can stop making so many of these people. But first, we have to figure out who “these people” are. And that is a slippery slope in our current culture. We’re not there yet. Not even close. In fact, we’re currently going backwards on this matter, presumably out of fear of repeating previous mistakes. I think this world is still operating with a collective guilty conscience concerning the last century. These things will take time. Lots of time. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing if you think about it. We need some time to develop the long view.

81.5.1 5. CULTURAL SOCIETY Biologic evolution and cultural civilization are not necessarily correlated; organic evolution in any age may proceed unhindered in the very midst of cultural decadence. But when lengthy periods of human history are surveyed, it will be observed that eventually evolution and culture become related as cause and effect. Evolution may advance in the absence of culture, but cultural civilization does not flourish without an adequate background of antecedent racial progression. Adam and Eve introduced no art of civilization foreign to the progress of human society, but the Adamic blood did augment the inherent ability of the races and did accelerate the pace of economic development and industrial progression. Adam’s bestowal improved the brain power of the races, thereby greatly hastening the processes of natural evolution.

That’s an interesting term TUB uses which is contradistinctive to Darwin”s term, natural selection.
BonitaParticipant
Aug 3, 2017, 4:58 PM
I think the more interesting part of the quote is the part I highlighted: But when lengthy periods of human history are surveyed, it will be observed that eventually evolution and culture become related as cause and effect.

How do you suppose this cause and effect thing works? Which one is the cause? Which one is the effect? Biological evolution or cultural civilization? Or does it begin to flow both ways at some point?

My best guess is that those who have the ability should work hard to improve the current culture. I would begin there. Hopefully, that will provide some insight into the elements impeding it. Those elements might then be identified as needing corrective measures of some kind. But unfortunately, in this current cultural climate, there are too many divergent ideas on how to improve culture. The mediocre masses and the minorities have the upper hand in most cases. So, it ain’t gonna happen anytime soon.

For instance, is there any evidence in our current culture that this is happening:

28:5.18 The Divine Counselors, to whom this order is attached, utilize them to reflect from one world to another the benefits to be derived from spiritual service. And by using the performances of the best to inspire and encourage the mediocre, these seconaphim contribute immensely to the quality of devoted service in the superuniverses. Effective use is made of the fraternal competitive spirit by circulating to any one world information about what the others, particularly the best, are doing. A refreshing and wholesome rivalry is promoted even among the seraphic hosts.

No, of course not. The best are not allowed to be inspirational. The best are seen as obscene people who need to feel ashamed for being better than someone else in some area. How dare they be better or best!!! The outrage of it all!!!!! But of course, you have to realize that all the outrage is coming from the mediocre who don’t want to be inspired, and from the sentimental, soppy sympathizers who think they’re morally superior for protecting the mediocre. It’s all backasswards.

48:7.7 5. Difficulties may challenge mediocrity and defeat the fearful, but they only stimulate the true children of the Most Highs.
Nigel NunnParticipant
Aug 3, 2017, 6:33 PM
Bonita – as I struggle on, in my unobtrusive corner, your posts continue to serve as a powerful gentle breeze to fill my sails

As usual, thanks for being here.

Nigel
AndréParticipant
Aug 3, 2017, 7:18 PM

Hi everyone,

But when lengthy periods of human history are surveyed, it will be observed that eventually evolution and culture become related as cause and effect. ^81:5.1 ^(905.6)

Which one is the cause? Which one is the effect? _Bonita

According to my perception on this moment about those questions, regarding

TUB ^118:8.6 ^(1302.3) The slowness of evolution, of human cultural progress, testifies to the effectiveness of that brake — material inertia — which so efficiently operates to retard dangerous velocities of progress. Thus does time itself cushion and distribute the otherwise lethal results of premature escape from the next-encompassing barriers to human action. For when culture advances overfast, when material achievement outruns the evolution of worship-wisdom, then does civilization contain within itself the seeds of retrogression; and unless buttressed by the swift augmentation of experiential wisdom, such human societies will recede from high but premature levels of attainment, and the “dark ages” of the interregnum of wisdom will bear witness to the inexorable restoration of the imbalance between self-liberty and self-control.

Cause/effect. It is a vice & versa. Culture (material achievement) must be tempered for proper growth with evolution (worship-wisdom). As evolution must be tempered with material achievement (experiential wisdom or experiences).

It is a Divine balanced technique. When one is unbalanced the other counterpart [one of two parts that fit, complete, or complement one another. ] it.

Bonita ‘’the mediocre’’, ‘’the sentimental’’, ‘’obscene people’’, ‘’soppy sympathizers’’ those children of God, our brothers and sisters … we are in such ignorance, in such an wandering aimlessly …

^196:2.9 ^(2093.3) Jesus led men to feel at home in the world; he delivered them from the slavery of taboo and taught them that the world was not fundamentally evil. He did not long to escape from his earthly life; he mastered a technique of acceptably doing the Father’s will while in the flesh. He attained an idealistic religious life in the very midst of a realistic world. Jesus did not share Paul’s pessimistic view of humankind. The Master looked upon men as the sons of God and foresaw a magnificent and eternal future for those who chose survival. He was not a moral skeptic; he viewed man positively, not negatively. He saw most men as weak rather than wicked, more distraught than depraved. But no matter what their status, they were all God’s children and his brethren.

….

In affectionate brotherhood,

André
AnonymousInactive
Aug 3, 2017, 7:32 PM
Much has been mentioned about heredity or heritage when in regards to offspring and there is much to be said about this in the UB, however from my studies on this subject, there is little to be said or proven that our parents play a major part in the intellectual or mental makeup of their offspring. Two parents of average or lesser stock may produce an offspring who could be considered a genius as well as from two parents of higher stock or considered genius’ could produce offspring of lesser stock. Therefore when we were to look at the offspring of Albert Einstein and his first wife Marić Einstein, which both where considered as very high functioning parents, their three children indicated that heritage does not play a major part in procreation or lineage. Their first child Lieserl Einstein (born January 1902), had been indicated as mentally challenged and her existence was not well documented. Their second child, first son, Hans Albert Einstein (born May 14, 1904) seemed to turn out very normal if not above average, however their second son, Eduard Einstein (born July 28 1910), had been diagnosed with with schizophrenia, and was taken care of by his mother, later in life and after her death, committed permanently to an asylums having been committed several time previously.

So, it would seem that selective breeding might produce different offspring than might be expected.
GeneParticipant
Aug 3, 2017, 8:05 PM

Bonita wrote:

Gene wrote:

Taking a tangent here – I read so much about all of the beings that inhabit our local universe that are committed to helping us in so many different capacities and we cannot even see or hear or otherwise contact one of them. Isolation is a beach. Isolation is hurting us.

Oh bullcrap! (not sure I’m allowed to use that word). Ponder on these quotes:

50.7.1 7. THE REWARDS OF ISOLATION On first thought it might appear that Urantia and its associated isolated worlds are most unfortunate in being deprived of the beneficent presence and influence of such superhuman personalities as a Planetary Prince and a Material Son and Daughter. But isolation of these spheres affords their races a unique opportunity for the exercise of faith and for the development of a peculiar quality of confidence in cosmic reliability which is not dependent on sight or any other material consideration. It may turn out, eventually, that mortal creatures hailing from the worlds quarantined in consequence of rebellion are extremely fortunate. We have discovered that such ascenders are very early intrusted with numerous special assignments to cosmic undertakings where unquestioned faith and sublime confidence are essential to achievement. 114.5.4 This rather loosely organized and somewhat personally administered planetary government is more than expectedly effective because of the timesaving assistance of the archangels and their ever-ready circuit, which is so frequently utilized in planetary emergencies and administrative difficulties. Technically, the planet is still spiritually isolated in the Norlatiadek circuits, but in an emergency this handicap can now be circumvented through utilization of the archangels’ circuit. Planetary isolation is, of course, of little concern to individual mortals since the pouring out of the Spirit of Truth upon all flesh nineteen hundred years ago. 184.4.6 These are the moments of the Master’s greatest victories in all his long and eventful career as maker, upholder, and savior of a vast and far-flung universe. Having lived to the full a life of revealing God to man, Jesus is now engaged in making a new and unprecedented revelation of man to God. Jesus is now revealing to the worlds the final triumph over all fears of creature personality isolation. The Son of Man has finally achieved the realization of identity as the Son of God. Jesus does not hesitate to assert that he and the Father are one; and on the basis of the fact and truth of that supreme and supernal experience, he admonishes every kingdom believer to become one with him even as he and his Father are one. The living experience in the religion of Jesus thus becomes the sure and certain technique whereby the spiritually isolated and cosmically lonely mortals of earth are enabled to escape personality isolation, with all its consequences of fear and associated feelings of helplessness.In the fraternal realities of the kingdom of heaven the faith sons of God find final deliverance from the isolation of the self, both personal and planetary. The God-knowing believer increasingly experiences the ecstasy and grandeur of spiritual socialization on a universe scale — citizenship on high in association with the eternal realization of the divine destiny of perfection attainment. 34:7.6 Notwithstanding this double disaster to man’s nature and his environment, present-day mortals would experience less of this apparent warfare between the flesh and the spirit if they would enter the spirit kingdom, wherein the faith sons of God enjoy comparative deliverance from the slave-bondage of the flesh in the enlightened and liberating service of wholehearted devotion to doing the will of the Father in heaven. Jesus showed mankind the new way of mortal living whereby human beings may very largely escape the dire consequences of the Caligastic rebellion and most effectively compensate for the deprivations resulting from the Adamic default. “The spirit of the life of Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of animal living and the temptations of evil and sin.” “This is the victory that overcomes the flesh, even your faith.”

Faith regenerated, all better now.
BonitaParticipant
Aug 3, 2017, 8:40 PM

Gene wrote:

Faith regenerated, all better now.

Excellent!
GeneParticipant
Aug 4, 2017, 2:20 PM

MidiChlorian wrote:

Much has been mentioned about heredity or heritage when in regards to offspring and there is much to be said about this in the UB, however from my studies on this subject, there is little to be said or proven that our parents play a major part in the intellectual or mental makeup of their offspring. Two parents of average or lesser stock may produce an offspring who could be considered a genius as well as from two parents of higher stock or considered genius’ could produce offspring of lesser stock. Therefore when we were to look at the offspring of Albert Einstein and his first wife Marić Einstein, which both where considered as very high functioning parents, their three children indicated that heritage does not play a major part in procreation or lineage. Their first child Lieserl Einstein (born January 1902), had been indicated as mentally challenged and her existence was not well documented. Their second child, first son, Hans Albert Einstein (born May 14, 1904) seemed to turn out very normal if not above average, however their second son, Eduard Einstein (born July 28 1910), had been diagnosed with with schizophrenia, and was taken care of by his mother, later in life and after her death, committed permanently to an asylums having been committed several time previously. So, it would seem that selective breeding might produce different offspring than might be expected.

Would you consider Albert to be superior?

If so, why?
AnonymousInactive
Aug 4, 2017, 5:33 PM

Gene wrote:

Would you consider Albert to be superior?

Isn’t that the point of this topic? Who are considered as superior and who are inferior? The UB uses these terms in many ways but they actually do not specify what characteristics might be grouped to define superior or inferior. The UB does indicate that this group or that is or was superior or inferior in relation to specific associations over a long period of time. It also indicates that there are different types of superior as associated to civilization.

So, if we are to accept any kind of “eugenics” as related to a betterment of the human stock, through selective breeding, should we not actually define what is superior verses inferior in order to be able to identify superior breeding stock?

My presentation using Albert Einstein as an example, was to illustrate that some might consider those who are considered as having a higher intellect as being superior, where those who consider “eugenics” as a viable method of improving or stabilizing a specific group, would consider this as a template for their validation for such a program. My presentation was to show that this type of thinking does not validate the general idea behind “eugenics”, at least based on heredity.

So to answer your question, you would need to provide me with a definition of superior, however, as related to intellect, Albert would have been considered as above average.
GeneParticipant
Aug 4, 2017, 7:37 PM
How about Stephen Hawkings???
GeneParticipant
Aug 4, 2017, 11:36 PM
Possibly another way to think about how to discover superior human beings is to think about what human qualities/traits attract the Seraphim? I would consider Seraphim to be a superior pattern that we can somewhat relate to.

Who’s listening to Beethovens 9th, or the Goldberg Variations, or any of that bazzar Ravel stuff, just me?
AnonymousInactive
Aug 6, 2017, 4:37 PM

Gene wrote:

Who’s listening to Beethovens 9th,

Don’t know about the 9th, I’d rather hear his 10th, based on his Last Night, but also like to listen to Night Castle as well.

Gene wrote:

I would consider Seraphim to be a superior pattern that we can somewhat relate to.

Interesting perspective, where the UB has mentioned that humans and angels are related, as one to another, but how?
Brooklyn_bornParticipant
Aug 6, 2017, 7:00 PM
I don’t think there is a best approach. The term, eugenics, carries way too much baggage; the movement has a history of atrocity and racism. And quite frankly the science of eugenics is meaningless in the mansion world. Personally, I don’t internalize those papers (racialized papers) as they have no relevance to the afterlife and the saving of one’s soul. By the way, could you give an example of misinformation they are spreading?

Van Amadon wrote:

I’m encountering significant blow back or negative comments by people who are inclined towards spreading misinformation about the UB. What do you think is the best approach to responding to folks out there who point to “eugenics” as a reason to dismiss the Urantia Book?

BB
BradlyParticipant
Aug 7, 2017, 10:16 PM

Brooklyn_born wrote:

I don’t think there is a best approach. The term, eugenics, carries way too much baggage; the movement has a history of atrocity and racism. And quite frankly the science of eugenics is meaningless in the mansion world. Personally, I don’t internalize those papers (racialized papers) as they have no relevance to the afterlife and the saving of one’s soul. By the way, could you give an example of misinformation they are spreading?

Van Amadon wrote:

I’m encountering significant blow back or negative comments by people who are inclined towards spreading misinformation about the UB. What do you think is the best approach to responding to folks out there who point to “eugenics” as a reason to dismiss the Urantia Book?

“Racialized”? You mean the amalgamation of all the colors of the rainbow of the human race into a genetically blended non-white mix of the one race on our world – the human race? This is not what any racist might envision. But one who views the past and the future with the perspective of evolutionary struggle to the perfecting process might appreciate the inevitability of the loving and patient process presented within the Papers.

This error of equating UB/Universal eugenics with racism or racialism offers another distinct contrast in human thinking and Divine planning…and execution of plan. This issue is either a debunkers ploy or the inexperienced reader’s fallacy polluted by misconception and preconception….personal prejudice in lieu of thoughtful consideration. Or so I think.

The “best approach” might be to allow the authors to speak for themselves and to not allow any others to misstate, misquote, misrepresent, twist, torment, or otherwise falsify the text. Another example of the literalist approach that the authors say what they mean and mean what they say…which is enough, without adding innuendo, hidden meanings, and metaphorical applications of distortion. Eugenics, as presented in the UB, is not and should not be controversial. Not one of the original colored or aboriginal ‘races’ exists. We are all genetic cousins already. Opposed to amalgamation? Too late….cousin! = )

But probably not the best subject to begin any conversations with due to the obvious “baggage” as BB says.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
GeneParticipant
Aug 7, 2017, 11:37 PM
When Seraphim get assigned to Urantia, the first thing they do is study our history. I am certain that they do not leave anything undiscovered and I think that all baggage is of interest and good.

A genetically blended non-white mix? I dont get it, is white being left out of the mix?

The purpose of the Urantia book is to reveal truth and It can and should be taken literally. The authors went to great length to reveal an enormous amount of information to us.

Not much is said about eugenics except that we should do it and it is associated with morality, ethics, religion, science – all of the good things that will make it work when we decide to let go of our baggage.

I dont predict any progress toward this in my lifetime but all things are possible.
BradlyParticipant
Aug 8, 2017, 1:28 AM

Gene wrote:

A genetically blended non-white mix? I dont get it, is white being left out of the mix?

Very funny!! The final result of amalgamation is not ‘white’, no….but the white, so called, is also amalgamating to be sure. Indeed, white is about as mongrel as they come, no pure or original strain. From the Andonites to the Andites over 900,000 years, Urantia’s many, many blood lines and DNA have been admixed and admixed, amalgamating as it inherently happens on every evolutionary world. Our story is unique but it is not singular or too peculiar I doubt.

Eugenics is merely that loving and wise evolutionary process most often attended and managed by our celestial creators and rulers and aides over a million years or more of time. Some folk need to grow up and pay attention to the reality of equality, inferiority, and superiority and what those terms ideally might come to mean and eventuate into….evolutionarily speaking! = )

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
AnonymousInactive
Aug 8, 2017, 3:16 AM

Bradly wrote:

Eugenics is merely that loving and wise evolutionary process most often attended and managed by our celestial creators and rulers and aides over a million years or more of time. Some folk need to grow up and pay attention to the reality of equality, inferiority, and superiority and what those terms ideally might come to mean and eventuate into….evolutionarily speaking!

Bradly, I kinda understand what your saying but, I’m having difficulty in your last sentence above, can you explain what you mean by “Some folk need to grow up and pay attention to the reality of equality, inferiority, and superiority”? Then you say “those terms ideally might come to mean and eventuate into…” …what? Can you provide some UB text to explain your statements? Because what you said previously:

Bradly wrote:

The “best approach” might be to allow the authors to speak for themselves and to not allow any others to misstate, misquote, misrepresent, twist, torment, or otherwise falsify the text. Another example of the literalist approach that the authors say what they mean and mean what they say…which is enough, without adding innuendo, hidden meanings, and metaphorical applications of distortion.

Is there not a difference between evolution over millions of years and eugenics, or are you indicating that the “celestial creators and rulers” have been orchestrating things even now in the present? I don’t want to get into another Monkey Trial here, but it would be a little more clarifying, if you could provide some of what the authors say based on what they, or you actually mean.
GeneParticipant
Aug 8, 2017, 3:47 AM

Bradly wrote:

Gene wrote:

A genetically blended non-white mix? I dont get it, is white being left out of the mix?

Very funny!! The final result of amalgamation is not ‘white’, no….but the white, so called, is also amalgamating to be sure. Indeed, white is about as mongrel as they come, no pure or original strain. From the Andonites to the Andites over 900,000 years, Urantia’s many, many blood lines and DNA have been admixed and admixed, amalgamating as it inherently happens on every evolutionary world. Our story is unique but it is not singular or too peculiar I doubt. Eugenics is merely that loving and wise evolutionary process most often attended and managed by our celestial creators and rulers and aides over a million years or more of time. Some folk need to grow up and pay attention to the reality of equality, inferiority, and superiority and what those terms ideally might come to mean and eventuate into….evolutionarily speaking! = )

Well, you did reference the rainbow and without a prism, all light is white.

As to the reality of equality, inferiority, and superiority – we live in a universe where nothing is equal with one exception. Someone once said that all men are created equal but without God and in a secular environment, the statement is ambiguous, antagonistic and meaningless. God loves us equally.

I was looking for an indirect UB reference to eugenics but cant find it – I believe it was in the description of the Life Carriers – it was stated that its up to us after their work is finished – may be mistaken. That goes back a long long time eh?

One more thought – do you think that a completely racially blended planet of beings and the age of light and life are synonymous? Or one could not happen without the other?? How necessary is racial blending to light and life?
BonitaParticipant
Aug 8, 2017, 11:27 AM
Gene wrote:One more thought – do you think that a completely racially blended planet of beings and the age of light and life are synonymous? Or one could not happen without the other?? How necessary is racial blending to light and life?

52:3.10 The post-Adamic epoch is the dispensation of internationalism. With the near completion of the task of race blending, nationalism wanes, and the brotherhood of man really begins to materialize. Representative government begins to take the place of the monarchial or paternal form of rulership. The educational system becomes world-wide, and gradually the languages of the races give way to the tongue of the violet people. Universal peace and co-operation are seldom attained until the races are fairly well blended, and until they speak a common language.

I don’t think racial blending and light & life are synonymous. Racial blending is part of the social evolution leading to light & life. Light & life is more than a physical and social phenomenon though. It’s spiritual too. Racial amalgamation is supposed to eliminate racial animosity and open the human mind to the reality of one human family, then finally, awaken the collective mind to the reality of one human family with God as the Father. Right now this is only an idea. This idea has to evolve into an ideal and then finally into reality. We aren’t even at the ideal level of thinking yet. That’s why I say wisdom must evolve, and carefully.

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