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Urantia Book eugenics

82 posts · 15 participants · started Jul 31, 2017, 12:36 PM

  1. It always confounds me, even from day one, how much derision exists out there towards the Urantia Book. Not to mention those who have such disregard for God in general. The antagonism is great sometimes, it leaves me flabbergasted, but not so much that I can’t withstand it.

    You know, people who just don’t respond to it is one thing, but then there are those who have some familiarity with the book and have decided to take up some weird inverse version of service to their fellow man and go to war with you about it.

    Over the last several years I’ve bumped into this every time I venture away from home base and unfortunately, it’s the eugenics/superior/inferior thing that always gets out front.

    I think ignoring being confronted with the issue from unsavory types is the only way to handle it. I’m beginning to realize the old adage that no news is bad news, is going to apply here. Even when these “savior” types attack the book, they’re bringing attention to it and I’ll just keep the faith that even under these kinds of negative circumstances, positive results are being achieved.

    I appreciate everyone’s feedback about this. I know we’re still in a very early stage with the revelation. But I can’t help but be expectant and hopeful that a point of critical mass is just ahead.

    Enno

     

  2. Van,

    I share your frustrations and have similar experiences. But I have found that it is a really good exercise for me to try to engage religious discussions by getting into the deeper meanings that don’t exist anywhere else than TUB as opposed to trying to change someone’s mind about a particular belief.

    i have actually had limited success with my son who is probably the most fundamental of fundamentalist Christians.

    But as for eugenics, if we tend to shy away from it on this forum where we think we are a bit more spiritually enlightened then there is little hope out there and I’ll go with Bonitas time line or longer.

    i still gravitate to the parable. I think it is the one about the sower where Jesus gave apostles instructions about the skill. As I mentioned before: jesus warned about the allegory as the distraction from the truth the parable is trying to convey. I keep that on in my mind all the time. Although parable is far beyond my skill level, avoiding allegories in religious discussion is really helpful.

    you can see what happened here when WW2 Germany was mentioned.

  3. Coincidental to this thread, a stunning report on the CRISPR technology appeared on this evening’s national newscast.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/gene-editing-crispr-fixes-dangerous-mutation-in-human-embryos/

    http://www.cbsnews.com/search/?q=crispr

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    Richard E Warren

  4. From the report:

    WASHINGTON — For the first time, researchers in the U.S. have safely repaired a disease-causing gene in human embryos, targeting a heart defect best known for killing young athletes — a big step toward one day preventing a list of inherited diseases. The breakthrough is also prompting debate about the ethics of altering DNA for generations to come.

    Scientists from Oregon Health and & Science University used the gene-editing tool CRISPR to target the mutation that causes hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, a common genetic heart disease that can cause sudden cardiac death and heart failure.

    The research, published in the journal Nature, demonstrates a new method of fixing a disease-causing mutation and preventing it from being passed down to future generations.

    Richard E Warren

  5. PBS also featured the break through:

    https://youtu.be/Waw7ywr9mMc

     

    “So long space race. Hello CRISPR race. As rumored last week and published formally Wednesday, geneticists in Oregon have become the first to genetically edit human embryos in the U.S. with the ever-popular CRISPR/Cas9 technique. Their work corrected a lethal heritable mutation in an embryo, a promising advance for parents who want conceive without passing a disease to their child. Similar research was conducted in China two years ago.”

     

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    Richard E Warren

  6. So long space race. Hello CRISPR race.

    This is great news! What’s interesting to me is that the article reports how simple these new gene editing techniques are. It almost seems as though it’s all part of the plan for us to discover these techniques so naturally.

     

    I share your frustrations and have similar experiences. But I have found that it is a really good exercise for me to try to engage religious discussions by getting into the deeper meanings that don’t exist anywhere else than TUB as opposed to trying to change someone’s mind about a particular belief. i have actually had limited success with my son who is probably the most fundamental of fundamentalist Christians.

    You know Gene, I think you’re right about discussing the deeper meanings of TUB without referencing the book. It does appear that many a good Christian and a better atheist is best engaged at the back door causally rather than on the front porch wearing a tie.

     

    i still gravitate to the parable. I think it is the one about the sower where Jesus gave apostles instructions about the skill. As I mentioned before: jesus warned about the allegory as the distraction from the truth the parable is trying to convey.

    Yeah, going allegorical can confuse. But I remember the instruction about the efficacy of using nature parables to convey meanings. It’s a tight balance between the two so it’s probably best to stay towards the middle.

     

  7. 111:4.4 [Part III]
    The inner and the outer worlds have a different set of values. Any civilization is in jeopardy when three quarters of its youth enter materialistic professions and devote themselves to the pursuit of the sensory activities of the outer world. Civilization is in danger when youth neglect to interest themselves in ethics, sociology, eugenics, philosophy, the fine arts, religion, and cosmology.

    I believe that the science that produced this CRISPR technique is a wonderful display of intelligence and genuine compassion for the human race.

    the context that TUB presents its very brief idea about our responsibility in regard to eugenics has definite context with ethics and sociology on one side and philosophy, art, religion and cosmology on the other. Eugenics fits into all that high level stuff.

    so where are the checks and balances? I suppose when genetic disorders are a thing of the past we may all have 100 year plus lifespans? We can think about population control later?

  8. I suppose when genetic disorders are a thing of the past we may all have 100 year plus lifespans? We can think about population control later?
    Or perhaps the population will begin to control itself with the much needed added benefit of genetically healthy people, especially the older folks made wiser by longer lives, healthier bodies and outlook, spreading a superior influence with the coming age of Jesus’s gospel, broadcast all over this world.
  9. Will genetic editing rid us of degenerate and antisocial stocks?  Will the genetic engineering of the next 20-50 years be able to discriminate socially defective and morally degenerate genomes from those which are not?  These are the folks TUB is talking about, and this problem has little to do with science.  It has to do with ethics.  The eugenics TUB is referring to is an ethical matter, not a gene splicing matter.

    70:9.14 What may be regarded as right in one age may not be so regarded in another. The survival of large numbers of defectives and degenerates is not because they have any natural right thus to encumber twentieth-century civilization, but simply because the society of the age, the mores, thus decrees.

     

     

  10. Will genetic editing rid us of degenerate and antisocial stocks? Will the genetic engineering of the next 20-50 years be able to discriminate socially defective and morally degenerate genomes from those which are not? These are the folks TUB is talking about, and this problem has little to do with science. It has to do with ethics. The eugenics TUB is referring to is an ethical matter, not a gene splicing matter.

    Good point, but the debate will evolve to ethics and morality as science discovers the genetic basis of being.

    …Religion is the mighty lever that lifts civilization from chaos, but it is powerless apart from the fulcrum of sound and normal mind resting securely on sound and normal heredity.70:8.18
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    Richard E Warren

  11. We’re actually told to biologically disfellowship defective stock.  I interpret that to mean stop reproducing them, stop mating with them.  Nothing is mentioned about genetically altering them, (unless neutering can be considered a genetic alteration).  Besides, genetic engineering can’t fix this.  There are many, many genes that contribute to stupid and amoral.

    51:4.8 These six evolutionary races are destined to be blended and exalted by amalgamation with the progeny of the Adamic uplifters. But before these peoples are blended, the inferior and unfit are largely eliminated. The Planetary Prince and the Material Son, with other suitable planetary authorities, pass upon the fitness of the reproducing strains. The difficulty of executing such a radical program on Urantia consists in the absence of competent judges to pass upon the biologic fitness or unfitness of the individuals of your world races. Notwithstanding this obstacle, it seems that you ought to be able to agree upon the biologic disfellowshiping of your more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks.

     

     

  12. socially defective and morally degenerate genomes

    I have a hard time thinking that physical characteristics are the lynch pin that drives a person’s ethics and morals. That genomes are behind what makes personality defective, degenerate or inferior. In fact I think poor physical condition is conducive for making true spiritual choices. Within limits of course.

     

  13. Although genetics does play a part, isn’t it environmental factors that primarily influence delinquency and degeneracy, like family and community?

     

  14.  

    This is the quote that makes it clear genes underlie character:

    …heredity lies at the bottom of all character…. 76:2.6

     

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    Richard E Warren

  15. That genomes are behind what makes personality defective, degenerate or inferior.

    Ponder on this quote:

    76:2.6 The observation of Abel’s conduct establishes the value of environment and education as factors in character development. Abel had an ideal inheritance, and heredity lies at the bottom of all character; but the influence of an inferior environment virtually neutralized this magnificent inheritance. Abel, especially during his younger years, was greatly influenced by his unfavorable surroundings. He would have become an entirely different person had he lived to be twenty-five or thirty; his superb inheritance would then have shown itself. While a good environment cannot contribute much toward really overcoming the character handicaps of a base heredity, a bad environment can very effectively spoil an excellent inheritance, at least during the younger years of life. Good social environment and proper education are indispensable soil and atmosphere for getting the most out of a good inheritance.

    I’ve explained this many, many times. Character and personality are not the same thing.  We inherit the character of our personality.  Inheritance involves genes, DNA.  Some people are unfortunate in that they inherit character handicaps, which TUB refers to as a base heredity.  A good social environment can help overcome that.  But a good social environment is the moral and ethical environment of a refined culture, and that is not found in a petri dish.  Where does a refined culture originate?  It originates inside the soul, from the Adjuster, the source of advancing civilization.

    111:4.5 Only in the higher levels of the superconscious mind as it impinges upon the spirit realm of human experience can you find those higher concepts in association with effective master patterns which will contribute to the building of a better and more enduring civilization. Personality is inherently creative, but it thus functions only in the inner life of the individual.

    109:4.4 If the Adjusters indwelling the minds of the inhabitants of Urantia were to be withdrawn, the world would slowly return to many of the scenes and practices of the men of primitive times; the divine Monitors are one of the real potentials of advancing civilization.

    But even a perfect culture cannot rid society of all its inferior stock.  We have to work hard to elevate our thinking, attune it to our Adjusters, if we are ever going to learn to recognize the difference between superior and inferior.

    50.6.4  Culture presupposes quality of mind; culture cannot be enhanced unless mind is elevated. Superior intellect will seek a noble culture and find some way to attain such a goal. Inferior minds will spurn the highest culture even when presented to them ready-made. Much depends, also, upon the successive missions of the divine Sons and upon the extent to which enlightenment is received by the ages of their respective dispensations.

  16. That genomes are behind what makes personality defective, degenerate or inferior.

    Ponder on this quote:

    76:2.6 The observation of Abel’s conduct establishes the value of environment and education as factors in character development. Abel had an ideal inheritance, and heredity lies at the bottom of all character; but the influence of an inferior environment virtually neutralized this magnificent inheritance. Abel, especially during his younger years, was greatly influenced by his unfavorable surroundings. He would have become an entirely different person had he lived to be twenty-five or thirty; his superb inheritance would then have shown itself. While a good environment cannot contribute much toward really overcoming the character handicaps of a base heredity, a bad environment can very effectively spoil an excellent inheritance, at least during the younger years of life. Good social environment and proper education are indispensable soil and atmosphere for getting the most out of a good inheritance.

    I’ve explained this many, many times. Character and personality are not the same thing. We inherit the character of our personality. Inheritance involves genes, DNA. Some people are unfortunate in that they inherit character handicaps, which TUB refers to as a base heredity. A good social environment can help overcome that. But a good social environment is the moral and ethical environment of a refined culture, and that is not found in a petri dish. Where does a refined culture originate? It originates inside the soul, from the Adjuster, the source of advancing civilization.

    111:4.5 Only in the higher levels of the superconscious mind as it impinges upon the spirit realm of human experience can you find those higher concepts in association with effective master patterns which will contribute to the building of a better and more enduring civilization. Personality is inherently creative, but it thus functions only in the inner life of the individual. 109:4.4 If the Adjusters indwelling the minds of the inhabitants of Urantia were to be withdrawn, the world would slowly return to many of the scenes and practices of the men of primitive times; the divine Monitors are one of the real potentials of advancing civilization.

    But even a perfect culture cannot rid society of all its inferior stock. We have to work hard to elevate our thinking, attune it to our Adjusters, if we are ever going to learn to recognize the difference between superior and inferior.

    50.6.4 Culture presupposes quality of mind; culture cannot be enhanced unless mind is elevated. Superior intellect will seek a noble culture and find some way to attain such a goal. Inferior minds will spurn the highest culture even when presented to them ready-made. Much depends, also, upon the successive missions of the divine Sons and upon the extent to which enlightenment is received by the ages of their respective dispensations.

    Thanks Bonita. You’ll never know how much I’ve learned about the Urantia Book from you.  :good:

     

  17. Is it a gene that contributes to someone making the decision to take that feel good pill that aids their escape from reality and can lead to tragedy for more people than themselves?

    My 1970’s TUB experience days I knew poeple that took psychedelics and would try to explain to me how it was really true that they were taken up in spaceships (invisible to me of course)  to have a one on one with the local universe helpers etc. Was that a defective gene?

    Taking a tangent here – I read so much about all of the beings that inhabit our local universe that are committed to helping us in so many different capacities and we cannot even see or hear or otherwise contact one of them. Isolation is a beach. Isolation is hurting us.

  18. Is it a gene that contributes to someone making the decision to take that feel good pill that aids their escape from reality and can lead to tragedy for more people than themselves? My 1970’s TUB experience days I knew poeple that took psychedelics and would try to explain to me how it was really true that they were taken up in spaceships (invisible to me of course) to have a one on one with the local universe helpers etc. Was that a defective gene? Taking a tangent here – I read so much about all of the beings that inhabit our local universe that are committed to helping us in so many different capacities and we cannot even see or hear or otherwise contact one of them. Isolation is a beach. Isolation is hurting us.

    I’ve prayed for this isolation you’re talking about Gene to end more than any other thing I’ve prayed for I think.

    How long O’Lord?

    The book is awesome but it does seem to me more and more every day that the time has arrived for somebody from on high to appear on the scene to help us get out of the hole the leaders of this world keep digging deeper and deeper to what seems like sure oblivion.

    God help us please.

     

  19. I’d like to add that TUB tells us that even an excellent social environment can do little to improve a base heredity.  And this is why we will eventually need to learn how to recognize a base heredity and learn what to do about it.  That does not mean killing people, i.e. genocide, (notice the reference to genes (race) in the word genocide).  TUB gave us a hint on how to handle it: biological disfellowshipping.  This does not mean ostracizing people and herding them into ghettos either.  Biological disfellowshipping has to do with elimination of a certain gene pool by disallowing reproduction.  We can stop making so many of these people.  But first, we have to figure out who “these people” are.  And that is a slippery slope in our current culture.  We’re not there yet.  Not even close.  In fact, we’re currently going backwards on this matter, presumably out of fear of repeating previous mistakes. I think this world is still operating with a collective guilty conscience concerning the last century.  These things will take time.  Lots of time.  And that’s not necessarily a bad thing if you think about it.  We need some time to develop the long view.

    81.5.1  5. CULTURAL SOCIETY Biologic evolution and cultural civilization are not necessarily correlated; organic evolution in any age may proceed unhindered in the very midst of cultural decadence. But when lengthy periods of human history are surveyed, it will be observed that eventually evolution and culture become related as cause and effect. Evolution may advance in the absence of culture, but cultural civilization does not flourish without an adequate background of antecedent racial progression. Adam and Eve introduced no art of civilization foreign to the progress of human society, but the Adamic blood did augment the inherent ability of the races and did accelerate the pace of economic development and industrial progression. Adam’s bestowal improved the brain power of the races, thereby greatly hastening the processes of natural evolution.

     

     

  20. My 1970’s TUB experience days I knew poeple that took psychedelics and would try to explain to me how it was really true that they were taken up in spaceships (invisible to me of course)  to have a one on one with the local universe helpers etc. Was that a defective gene?

    Are those the same people who are receiving midwayer emails from invisible orbiting spacecrafts?  Should we biologically disfellowship them?

    I think people who deliberately attempt to alter their consciousness in any way (drugs or naturally) are playing with fire.  They are making a conscious decision to do something to alter their thought processes.  Some of this is sheer stupidity.  Is there one single stupid gene?  No.  Some of it is wishful thinking . . . people riding unicorns in search of rainbows.  Come to think of it, that’s a form of stupidity too. But is there a specific gene that makes people shun reality?  No.  Lots of things go into it, and our culture plays a role. As long as society tolerates this sort of thing, people will do it because people are basically lazy.  States of altered consciousness by any means is an attempted shortcut to bliss by those who don’t want to do the actual work involved in finding true happiness.

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