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Ugly Bags of Mostly Water

44 posts · 7 participants · started Aug 22, 2016, 2:09 AM

BonitaParticipant
Aug 30, 2016, 12:52 PM

Ramblon wrote: No more, no less. If in some spiritual sense a fractal of the creator may well have purposely “forgotten” what it really is in order to act out this existence……In our quest to find out what we are, we may very well be limited by the very substance that we are.

What does this mean? Are you saying that you are a fractal of the creator? Are you saying that you somehow have forgotten that you are a fractal of the creator and need to remember it? I don’t know if you realize it, but that is Gnosticism. Do you believe you’ve been duped by the Demiurge and have forgotten the Pleroma? If not, what do fractals have to do with spirituality?

Ramblon wrote:Calling the Mind a ministry may be a misconception of the reader. The definition of “ministry” is either a “holy spiritual leader or a government agency”. Is someone lacking a word or symbol in regards to describing the Urantia Book definition of Mind? (just asking). Is there a truly qualified living person validate that assigned value.

I must have a different dictionary than you. My dictionary defines ministry as the act of ministering. Ministering is defined as providing something that is necessary and helpful. You ask if there is a living person involved. Yes. Mind originates from the Infinite Spirit, the Third Person of Deity. From her, cosmic mind is distributed to the seven superuniverses through the seven Master Spirits who are persons. Our individual minds are provided by a daughter of the Infinite Spirit, the local universe Creative Spirit, also a person.

9:5.2 The realms of creature mind are of exclusive origin in the Third Source and Center; he is the bestower of mind.

9:4.3 These Master Spirits distribute mind to the grand universe as the cosmic mind, and your local universe is pervaded by the Nebadon variant of the Orvonton type of cosmic mind.

9:5.4 . . . and the mind of man is an individualized circuit, an impersonal portion, of that cosmic mind as it is bestowed in a local universe by a Creative Daughter of the Third Source and Center.

Ramblon wrote: Pre-existance? Yes. a fertilized human female egg does not produce a spirit.

So, what you’re really saying is life is pre-existent. Yes, life is a gift of the Third Person of Deity, the Third Source and Center of the Trinity, who is existential, meaning always was and always will be. Life is provided by the Infinite Spirit, so it can produce a spirit. A fertilized human egg has life, otherwise it would not grow, therefore it has spirit potential.

The spirit that stimulates growth and evolution is adjutant mind ministry. Mind ministry is sufficient to produce the body. Mind ministry urges evolution toward spirit. Mind is a spirit ministry which accompanies the presence of life.

36:5.1 It is the presence of the seven adjutant mind-spirits on the primitive worlds that conditions the course of organic evolution; that explains why evolution is purposeful and not accidental. These adjutants represent that function of the mind ministry of the Infinite Spirit which is extended to the lower orders of intelligent life through the operations of a local universe Mother Spirit. The adjutants are the children of the Universe Mother Spirit and constitute her personal ministry to the material minds of the realms. Wherever and whenever such mind is manifest, these spirits are variously functioning.

But a human being can only become a “spirit” if it has a spirit nucleus. When all seven adjutants make contact, the individual is provided with a spirit nucleus, called the Holy Spirit. On Urantia, we also get the Spirit of Truth and the Thought Adjuster as part of our spirit nucleus. All three spirit influences within us have pre-existence. Even our personalities are derived from the First Person of Deity, the Universal Father who pre-exists. But personalities are only patterns without life, without experience, and without mind, body or spirit so there is nothing to remember.

Personality is provided by the Universal Father to a living and minded system produced by the Creative Spirit. Personality is the pattern that unifies all the parts of selfhood into a whole according to its pattern. Personality brings with it the power to choose and the ability to be come self-aware, to use mind ministries to relate to the reality of self and the reality of other-than-self. Personality recognizes other personality, and there you have what we call a human.

p483:9 42:12.2 Mind is always creative. The mind endowment of an individual animal, mortal, morontian, spirit ascender, or finality attainer is always competent to produce a suitable and serviceable body for the living creature identity. But the presence phenomenon of a personality or the pattern of an identity, as such, is not a manifestation of energy, either physical, mindal, or spiritual. The personality form is the pattern aspect of a living being; it connotes the arrangement of energies, and this, plus life and motion, is the mechanism of creature existence.

p71:1 5:6.6 Capacity for divine personality is inherent in the prepersonal Adjuster; capacity for human personality is potential in the cosmic-mind endowment of the human being. But the experiential personality of mortal man is not observable as an active and functional reality until after the material life vehicle of the mortal creature has been touched by the liberating divinity of the Universal Father, being thus launched upon the seas of experience as a self-conscious and a (relatively) self-determinative and self-creative personality. The material self is truly and unqualifiedly personal.

Ramblon wrote: After all, God said that everything was perfect.

When did he say that? The worlds of time and space were never created perfect. Only the Central Universe is perfect. The rest of us are in the process of perfecting. We won’t be perfect until the God the Supreme emerges, a time when all seven superuniverses will simultaneously become perfected. The creations and creatures of time and space are incomplete and are therefore not perfect, which is why they must evolve and why mind ministry assists in that evolution, the evolution of becoming perfected.

105:5.9 These, then, are the two original manifestations: the constitutively perfect and the evolutionally perfected. The two are co-ordinate in eternity relationships, but within the limits of time they are seemingly different. A time factor means growth to that which grows; secondary finites grow; hence those that are growing must appear as incomplete in time. But these differences, which are so important this side of Paradise, are nonexistent in eternity.
BradlyParticipant
Aug 30, 2016, 3:35 PM
Ramblon says above: “So, I hope to remain your friend and at times we can agree to disagree. Sooner or later, we might yet agree.”

I hope so too. Kingdom believers and fellow children of God need to get along whether we agree on the particulars or not. Your lack of confidence in or agreement with the UB’s presentation on reality does not diminish our shared source and destiny. Still, the Papers are what we study at this study group of the Papers, so I hope you will not be offended when others here offer the apparent contrast between your construct of reality and that presented in the UB…..as we agree to disagree!

Always good to hear from another faither!!

Best wishes….Bradly = )

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Aug 30, 2016, 3:57 PM

Bradly wrote: I hope you will not be offended when others here offer the apparent contrast between your construct of reality and that presented in the UB

Why would anyone coming here be offended by being reminded about what’s in TUB? Or, if never read or comprehended, having it explained? If that causes offense, then why come here? Why should I be here? I don’t get it. The only reason to post here, if it’s not to learn more about TUB or share what you’ve learned from TUB, is to evangelize your own personal religion. I don’t think this is the place to do that. Is it? If it is, then why isn’t there a subforum for sharing that sort of thing which has nothing to do with TUB? Isn’t this the Urantia Book General Discussion subforum? So many come here to sell their personal religion, why not give them a safe place to do that? Just sayin’.
BradlyParticipant
Aug 30, 2016, 4:07 PM
Agree!!! Perhaps “Personal Experiences” is that place?

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Aug 30, 2016, 5:20 PM
Good idea Bradly. It could be renamed “Personal Religion” . Another thing, why don’t new readers post in the new reader sub forum? If they’re afraid of being informed as to what’s really in the book, that’s supposed to be a safe place to post. I promise I’ll never go there. All those easily offended might find comfort in that.
RamblonParticipant
Aug 30, 2016, 7:57 PM
Bradly,

Offending me here is impossible. Bonita (who I like) seems to think that since this is a forum of those that accept the Urantia Book that anyone else has no business here. I have not finished my examinations of the writings. So far, I do not see great gaps in regards to my own studies or conclusions. Something brought me here. Can we not consider the possibility that I came to get the forum “fired up”. It certainly seemed like an inactive group when I first looked in. It must have been weeks before I even stirred anyone up.
BradlyParticipant
Aug 30, 2016, 10:06 PM

Ramblon wrote:

Bradly, Offending me here is impossible. Bonita (who I like) seems to think that since this is a forum of those that accept the Urantia Book that anyone else has no business here. I have not finished my examinations of the writings. So far, I do not see great gaps in regards to my own studies or conclusions. Something brought me here. Can we not consider the possibility that I came to get the forum “fired up”. It certainly seemed like an inactive group when I first looked in. It must have been weeks before I even stirred anyone up.

I haven’t noticed anyone attempting to offend you here Ramblon. And I can assure you that you are quite mistaken in your claim that this discussion and study group site requires that you or any other reader/student “accept the Urantia Book”. This is definitely not the case at all. The Urantia Papers’ student body is far bigger than the subset which includes those of us who have come to conclude that we believe the claims of the authors of the Papers. All of us who do so believe those claims of authenticity and authority were certainly once readers/students who did NOT so believe/conclude until much study and many readings later.

So, we are not a Urantia Book believers group, we are a Urantia Book study group which does include those who also believe the UB to be what it says it is. And in that subset, there are many that focus on their favorite parts of the book – science geeks (sorry Nigel but it is what it is…hahahaha!), philosophy nerds (that’s me), Jesus stories lovers, history nuts, etc. Some become very well rounded scholars on all topics presented and are treasured teachers within the student body….while maintaining their status as students too.

No student should require any oaths or loyalties to creeds, dogmas, ceremonies, beliefs, etc. who is a true student of the UB. The student body is not a religion or religious group nor are any of the major organizations dedicated to dissemination of the UB and its teachings. We are a group of sincere religionists however, each striving to live a life based on a shared belief in God and the family of creation. We study the Urantia Papers together to discover what it says about all manner of important questions and issues every human being asks and faces in their mortal life.

It is the teachings of the UB that unites this and other student bodies and study groups. We study, learn, ask, and teach what has been presented in the UB….regardless of one’s belief or agreement with those Papers. So it is inherently appropriate that those who post at a UB study group and discussion site be willing and able to actually discuss the Papers or to ask specific questions regarding them. It is inappropriate to use such a site to make pronouncements and pontifications of personal beliefs which contradict that which we study here together. It would be advisable to ask questions or post text and comment on that within the text….whether you agree with it or understand it is not relevant or important. But it is the keystone to our community….the common link upon which we share together.

Our group is hardly inactive here. Over the years there have been tens of thousands of posts and far more views at the 3 Forums sponsored by the Association (this being the third generation and but two years old with over 7000 posts so far!). Attendance does ebb and flow over time and today, there are far more virtual study groups with members around the world who skype by topic and/or language. There are also multiple schools providing study by curriculum on-line and dozens of social media groups….all growing exponentially. So perhaps this format fades in popularity for the newer audience? I don’t know.

But the movement is on fire today, thanks in large part to the digital age of instant/global communication capabilities unknown to my generation who found the UB decades ago. Perhaps we are becoming “quaint” in our antiquity here? And yet, this type of group is important still and we remain quite rigorous in our age and quite dedicated to sharing with and caring about new students and veterans alike who wish to learn together in a free form environment where any question and any topic is welcome….so long as it has some connection to the UB.

So….what is it about the Urantia Papers that interests you most? What confirmations of prior concepts have you discovered? Which preconceptions held which conflict with the Papers offer the most challenge to you? Is there something you’d like to discuss, ask, or offer some personal insights on related to the UB? All of that is most welcome here! We don’t need “fired up”, thanks anyway. But we certainly would enjoy ever more actual students of the UB who sincerely desire to learn and understand more about this amazing work.

Bonita – I have no idea why anyone would report your last post as inappropriate. Bad call. The mods really need to be able to review and invalidate these personal attacks by some malcontents who visit us here time to time. I once posted 4 quotes….only the text itself….and it still reads “reported for inappropriate content”….you mean the UB has inappropriate content???? Hahahaha….oh well.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
AnonymousInactive
Aug 30, 2016, 10:56 PM

Bradly wrote:

Bonita – I have no idea why anyone would report your last post as inappropriate. Bad call. The mods really need to be able to review and invalidate these personal attacks by some malcontents who visit us here time to time. I once posted 4 quotes….only the text itself….and it still reads “reported for inappropriate content”….you mean the UB has inappropriate content???? Hahahaha….oh well.

I don’t know for sure but it would seem after reading all of Bonita’s most resent posts, seems to be telling specific posters to go somewhere else, and not post here? That’s how I read into some of her posts lately? But that’s my opinion and I really don’t disagree with the “report” made. It would seem that much is being presented about what Jesus said and did, as well as how we should treat our fellow brothers and sisters, but I have noticed it is not being practiced here, and that Bonita is a little more agitated of late. But she seems to be most passionate about the UB, which is her prerogative, but to state that if someone posts something that she thinks is wrong as she sees it, all hell brakes out, as if, if you don’t see it my way, then hit the road? Also, why bring up the troll issue if she did mean to imply another troll present? Or, so I think.
BradlyParticipant
Aug 30, 2016, 11:19 PM
I have no idea what you mean Midi. I thought Bonita’s reply both gracious and on point – she replied: “You read me wrong Ramblon. You can certainly post your belief system, but I think it would be more appropriate on the Personal Experience forum. After all, we are supposed to familiarize ourselves with all the different belief systems in the world, so feel free to share your belief system over on that forum. If your belief system doesn’t jive with what is written in TUB, then expect something to be said about it if you post on this forum which is titled “Urantia Book General Discussions”. If you have no interest in what TUB has to say about reincarnation and pre-existence, then you probably don’t belong here, that I will say. As long as you’re interested in hearing and learning about what’s actually written in TUB, then you’re in the right place and I certainly welcome anyone with a sincere interest in TUB.”

I believe the troll in question has a name which begins with “L” and you know very well about whom the comment was directed; oh yeah, there was also “Z”….those who come to merely disrupt and derail with their pontifications of their own superior knowledge. I heard her say thank you to the mods, not accuse anyone. But that’s just me! You, of course, are entitled to your opinion but it is known here that you don’t have a favorable one toward Bonita which makes your comments pretty personal. Just sayin’…… Perhaps I’ll “earn” another “inappropriate” too?

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Aug 30, 2016, 11:35 PM

Bradly wrote: Bonita – I have no idea why anyone would report your last post as inappropriate.

It’s because I made mention of the troll. So I’ll mention him again. So glad he’s gone. So very, very, very glad. And thank you again Moderator 2 for making sure that he doesn’t show up under a pseudonym to start trolling again. I truly am grateful. From my heart. Great job!
RamblonParticipant
Aug 31, 2016, 1:24 AM
Bonita

I chose “General Topics” because I do not really want to get to involved. I do not want to spend time looking for posts The connection that brought me here was a recent “Google” in regards to Jesus not intending to start an new Church. That was enough for me to have a look at your forum. It is yours and you can do as you please. Edit posts, ban memberships, whatever. If you want to make decisions in regards to appropriate locations for posts, then I guess I am out, We all have lives to attend to anyway. If this becomes work rather than a place to exchange personal revelations then I will save my old fingers for other matters.

The “assigned values” (IMO) here include Characters as do all belief systems. If humans do not see a God, they will always invent one. Every culture in every time has done this. God either blesses them, ignores them, or punishes them. The requirement for Blood sacrifice even found it’s way into the Bible.

I am in no way trying to discredit the Urantia Book. Most certainly there would be a structure of Entities between us and the infinite. At this time, I am the center of my universe. You are a part of it. Everyone here is a part of it. It may be a short encounter, I don’t know.

I am 65 years of age and I spent at least 40 years getting to this point. Is there more for me. Maybe.

If I preached at all, I would have to follow the Christian format. I am not a hypocrite, so I cannot do that. Still, if there heart is good, any religious group will serve the followers well.

I am tired. The world doesn’t need saving. It is and will continue to unfold no matter what human beliefs we choose to follow. I have lived alone since leaving the US Army, but I am never alone.
BonitaParticipant
Aug 31, 2016, 11:08 AM

Ramblon wrote: God either blesses them, ignores them, or punishes them.

I know you’re talking about religions, but religions are made up of religionists. I don’t think God ignores anyone or their thoughts, and I’m positive he never punishes anyone for their religious beliefs. God is love. He cannot ignore anyone or anything. He’s all in. He goes the distance for every single personality. Every personality is cherished and valuable. And we know that he works nonstop to adjuster erroneous thinking, which is why he lives in our heads. In fact, part of our mansion world experience is to help us get rid of the bad habit of ignoring things and people, which is the same as procrastination and reality avoidance. It’s something humans do, but God does not do.

12:7.9 The love of the Father absolutely individualizes each personality as a unique child of the Universal Father, a child without duplicate in infinity, a will creature irreplaceable in all eternity. The Father’s love glorifies each child of God, illuminating each member of the celestial family, sharply silhouetting the unique nature of each personal being against the impersonal levels that lie outside the fraternal circuit of the Father of all. The love of God strikingly portrays the transcendent value of each will creature, unmistakably reveals the high value which the Universal Father has placed upon each and every one of his children from the highest creator personality of Paradise status to the lowest personality of will dignity among the savage tribes of men in the dawn of the human species on some evolutionary world of time and space.

117:7.2 May I admonish you to heed the distant echo of the Adjuster’s faithful call to your soul? The indwelling Adjuster cannot stop or even materially alter your career struggle of time; the Adjuster cannot lessen the hardships of life as you journey on through this world of toil. The divine indweller can only patiently forbear while you fight the battle of life as it is lived on your planet; but you could, if you only would — as you work and worry, as you fight and toil — permit the valiant Adjuster to fight with you and for you. You could be so comforted and inspired, so enthralled and intrigued, if you would only allow the Adjuster constantly to bring forth the pictures of the real motive, the final aim, and the eternal purpose of all this difficult, uphill struggle with the commonplace problems of your present material world.
RamblonParticipant
Sep 2, 2016, 8:01 PM
Early on, someone wrote that “your claim belittles and besmerches the revelation of the Urantia an he relevators. IMO

I could have come back with just the opposite. There are thousands of theologions that see reality other ways.

It really doesn’t matter. We are human animals. In many cases, fearful ones at that. Fear of death, fear of not being loved, fear of illness. Like thay say, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. When lonely humans feel that no one cares, they are “prey” for he Church that comforts them. Unfortunately, we have so many false prophets. Still, some truely believe what they preach and show true love. I read a little more each day of the Urantia Book. To me, it follows a pattern found in many revelations. Most certainly, God would use a “chain of command, rather than micro manage the universe. We find that in dozens of belief systems, just not so specific.

It is in the first book of the Bible that states that everything is good and finished. This did precede the creation of the first human being.

Few people get into the details of Religions. I have. Many of them (and not just reading),

Compared to more advanced beings, we are ignorant. Creatng a Hiarchy of beings in detail is not what will enlighten anyone. They can if be happy and perhaps ignorant, so what!

“I sing because I’m happy,

I sing because I’m free,

For His Eye is on the sparrow,

Ann I know He Watches Me.”
Nigel NunnParticipant
Sep 3, 2016, 8:38 PM
Hi Ramblon – keep in mind, at least two things are involved here: individual personality assurance, and communal planetary progress. The plot thickens when we engage both
RamblonParticipant
Sep 4, 2016, 6:27 PM
Nigel

“Salvation from intellectual bondage”.
BradlyParticipant
Sep 5, 2016, 8:14 PM
Ramblon say above: “Early on, someone wrote that “your claim belittles and besmerches the revelation of the Urantia an he relevators.”

Me here: That was me Ramblon and I regret the words posted. None may belittle or besmirch what one has not even read nor by any disagreement with what is read. My bad. While I went on to say that none here requires or requests that any student of the UB also believes its claims, the above certainly contradicts that sentiment.

I hope your reading will continue and that you find much within the text that confirms prior convictions of truth. I hope that those teachings which may conflict with preconception bring illumination to your path. It may interest you to know that the disagreements between theologians is one of the reasons cited by the UB for its presentations of the facts regarding universe reality to help reduce such confusions and errors based on the lack of such facts as given. While the hierarchy elements are important, I always found the middle of the book the most interesting to me – the Papers on religion. Here we learn of the spirit and mind circuitry we are each connected to and are given instruction on the dual nature of mortals and how to live with these two realities by harmonization techniques I have found to be very helpful and fruitful over the decades.

The UB claims that fear and prejudice (the love of and loyalty to one’s own opinions and perspective and importance) are powerful mind poisons which offer great obstacles to spirit progress and the transfer of the seat of our identity. Those who can transcend their prejudices in favor of truth discovery find great inspiration and guidance in the Papers. The view of the universe of universes is exponentially expanded in scale and volume and activity with a very specific emphasis on the progressive ascension of all experiential beings in time and space. What an adventure!

Apologies again for the inappropriate and false accusation. The truth never suffers from serious examination. = )

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
AnonymousInactive
Sep 5, 2016, 9:02 PM

Bradly wrote:

It may interest you to know that the disagreements between theologians is one of the reasons cited by the UB for its presentations of the facts regarding universe reality to help reduce such confusions and errors based on the lack of such facts as given.

Bradly, your statement above seems a little confusing in more than one way, I’m not sure of your meaning “the facts regarding universe reality” in that are you indicating that what has been presented regarding the reality of the universe, outside of the reality which we assume is present on Urantia, can be verified as “fact”, based only on its presentation in the UB? Then to say “based on the lack of such facts as given”, where, are you indicating that “the lack of such facts” are from the UB’s presentation, or a reference back to “the disagreements between theologians”? Can you clarify your statement so that is is a little less confusing?

Bradly wrote:

The UB claims that fear and prejudice (the love of and loyalty to one’s own opinions and perspective and importance) are powerful mind poisons which offer great obstacles to spirit progress and the transfer of the seat of our identity.

Also, are you defining “that fear and prejudice” can be associated to the ego, and how does “love of” or “loyalty” have anything to do with “one’s own opinions” if that opinion is based on an understanding of what might be retained from reading the UB, or “perspective and importance” as referred back to the love of oneself, which is generally implied as I read it, when directed to opinion or loyalty of self? Can you provide the UB text where you believe that it describes what you presented, because I’m not sure that I understand it this way?

Bradly wrote:

Those who can transcend their prejudices in favor of truth discovery find great inspiration and guidance in the Papers. The view of the universe of universes is exponentially expanded in scale and volume and activity with a very specific emphasis on the progressive ascension of all experiential beings in time and space. What an adventure!

I think I understand what you are saying here, but again when you say “The view of the universes of universes is exponentially expanded in scale and volume”, which would seem to not be likely depending on everyone’s intake of the information presented within the UB, or like saying that infinity can be viewed? Then when you indicate “the progressive ascension of all experiential beings” would, by my understanding be opinion and/or loyalty, to what the UB has presented in text, yet not verifiable until after death? This I can understand as faith or belief in what is written in the UB, but as fact, can only be understood as opinion until proved?
RamblonParticipant
Sep 5, 2016, 9:09 PM
Bradly

I found information in Wikipedia as good as anything so far in looking at Dr. Sadler’s life and his relationships with others. He evolved as we all do. We never start at the same place. Among his many writings, I believe he addressed Eugenics at one time. Though your position and mine are at this time on different pages, I pondered the possibilities of developing a better human being. You see, I do believe that spirits were created in the image of God.(from of course Genesis) Further, if this is so, then this “image” could have a better human vehicle to work with. Any present day advocate of Christianity would reject this very quickly. They would give it about the same consideration as they do the Urantia Book.

I wondered a bit about any legal copyrights that the publishers would take to court in regards to whether or not the Book is public domain. Who would care. No one is going to get rich selling this book. (I doubt Bible retailers are wealthy even with the Bible being the book most printed).

I found it interesting that students of Phineas Parkhearst Quimby were sued successfully by Mary Baker Eddy even though they received their ideas from the same man. My studies in this area preceded the computer generation) Quimby’s family would not release his transcripts to the public. If you ever get the chance to look over Quimby’s writings, you will see that he was not very literate. He did not care anyway. There was no terminology available to him anyway. He claimed to heal as Jesus did. He blamed the Religions of the day to create the guilt that made people sick, and the Medical Doctors for giving the illnesses names.

No too shabby for a man living in the 1800’s. He is one of many that had enough truth and faith to affect matter.

My quest actually started in with an interest in “Mental Healing”. It never seemed to matter if Religion was involved. I has to do with Faith.

Christian Science was my next study. This is how I was led to Quimby. I think his incomplete knowledge led to an early physical death in 1866. For want of better words, I call Mary Baker Eddy a “nutball”. As did Mark Twain. He thought Christian Science to be evil. He had a broken leg, and had a choice between a horse doctor or a Christian Science Practitioner. Imagine a healer trying to convince Mark Twain that his leg was not really broken.
BradlyParticipant
Sep 5, 2016, 10:28 PM

MidiChlorian wrote:

Bradly wrote:

It may interest you to know that the disagreements between theologians is one of the reasons cited by the UB for its presentations of the facts regarding universe reality to help reduce such confusions and errors based on the lack of such facts as given.

Midi: Bradly, your statement above seems a little confusing in more than one way, I’m not sure of your meaning “the facts regarding universe reality” in that are you indicating that what has been presented regarding the reality of the universe, outside of the reality which we assume is present on Urantia, can be verified as “fact”, based only on its presentation in the UB? Then to say “based on the lack of such facts as given”, where, are you indicating that “the lack of such facts” are from the UB’s presentation, or a reference back to “the disagreements between theologians”? Can you clarify your statement so that is is a little less confusing?

Bradly wrote:

The UB claims that fear and prejudice (the love of and loyalty to one’s own opinions and perspective and importance) are powerful mind poisons which offer great obstacles to spirit progress and the transfer of the seat of our identity.

Midi: Also, are you defining “that fear and prejudice” can be associated to the ego, and how does “love of” or “loyalty” have anything to do with “one’s own opinions” if that opinion is based on an understanding of what might be retained from reading the UB, or “perspective and importance” as referred back to the love of oneself, which is generally implied as I read it, when directed to opinion or loyalty of self? Can you provide the UB text where you believe that it describes what you presented, because I’m not sure that I understand it this way?

Bradly wrote:

Those who can transcend their prejudices in favor of truth discovery find great inspiration and guidance in the Papers. The view of the universe of universes is exponentially expanded in scale and volume and activity with a very specific emphasis on the progressive ascension of all experiential beings in time and space. What an adventure!

Midi: I think I understand what you are saying here, but again when you say “The view of the universes of universes is exponentially expanded in scale and volume”, which would seem to not be likely depending on everyone’s intake of the information presented within the UB, or like saying that infinity can be viewed? Then when you indicate “the progressive ascension of all experiential beings” would, by my understanding be opinion and/or loyalty, to what the UB has presented in text, yet not verifiable until after death? This I can understand as faith or belief in what is written in the UB, but as fact, can only be understood as opinion until proved?

Sorry for your confusions Midi. I attempted to say that the UB is a gift of facts for those without facts (especially religionists and theologians as well as philosophers and scientists!) regarding creation, our world’s history, the mind and personality and spirit circuits, the never ending adventure of ascendance and experiential progress, the 4 prior epochal revelations, and especially the mission and ministry of Michael. The Papers say that their importance is, in one way, related to the reduction of confusions and elimination of errors from all perspectives.

As to the loyalty to and love of one’s own opinions/perspectives, reading the UB does not inherently eliminate this mind poison of prejudice….but it certainly is a challenge to such prejudice! One shared trait of most truth seekers is the ability to set aside preconception or it is if one is to remain a truth seeker!!

And yes, I meant to say that for those who read the Papers, their lense or view of reality is expanded beyond any prior conceptualizations or so I have heard from others and is my own experience. In size alone, time and space is stupendous and, yet, is but a fraction now of its future size still to come. Consider 7 trillion worlds breeding finaliters for that next level of time and space creation to come and all the spirits, angels, and Sons who attend this creation and those trillions of trillions (gazillions!) of ascenders and are themselves also ascendant beings with a forever future filled with fun and adventure.

There is that which is not “verifiable” until experienced I suppose. But then, a witness or many such witnesses to such a reality might make a compelling case for the existence of that seen and experienced? Thus, we are given the Papers. To give us a factual presentation of universe reality so that such a view might spark enthusiasm and give courage to live loyally in God’s friendly universe. Indeed, all 4 prior epochal revelations were such witnesses and gave such testimony and created great schools to teach and then to disseminate the facts of universe reality. This book is version 5.0! I believe the very word “faith” is to believe without seeing or prior verification by personal experience is it not? I’ve long had such faith….but now I have a book of facts to further embolden and illuminate such an inspiring hope and faith as we may share without requiring personal “verifications”….signs, wonders, miracles, etc. are not what creates Agondonters as you know. But even mortals born on a world in light and life still must have faith…faith in the ONE within and faith in Father’s love and mercy and his friendly universe. Faith does not wait for its verification Midi or it is not faith at all.

160:1.13 (1774.5) Prejudice blinds the soul to the recognition of truth, and prejudice can be removed only by the sincere devotion of the soul to the adoration of a cause that is all-embracing and all-inclusive of one’s fellow men. Prejudice is inseparably linked to selfishness. Prejudice can be eliminated only by the abandonment of self-seeking and by substituting therefor the quest of the satisfaction of the service of a cause that is not only greater than self, but one that is even greater than all humanity — the search for God, the attainment of divinity. The evidence of maturity of personality consists in the transformation of human desire so that it constantly seeks for the realization of those values which are highest and most divinely real.

160:2.7 (1776.1) 2. Union of souls — the mobilization of wisdom. Every human being sooner or later acquires a certain concept of this world and a certain vision of the next. Now it is possible, through personality association, to unite these views of temporal existence and eternal prospects. Thus does the mind of one augment its spiritual values by gaining much of the insight of the other. In this way men enrich the soul by pooling their respective spiritual possessions. Likewise, in this same way, man is enabled to avoid that ever-present tendency to fall victim to distortion of vision, prejudice of viewpoint, and narrowness of judgment. Fear, envy, and conceit can be prevented only by intimate contact with other minds. I call your attention to the fact that the Master never sends you out alone to labor for the extension of the kingdom; he always sends you out two and two. And since wisdom is superknowledge, it follows that, in the union of wisdom, the social group, small or large, mutually shares all knowledge.

100:1.2 (1094.4) Some persons are too busy to grow and are therefore in grave danger of spiritual fixation. Provision must be made for growth of meanings at differing ages, in successive cultures, and in the passing stages of advancing civilization. The chief inhibitors of growth are prejudice and ignorance.

170:2.20 (1861.2) Jesus taught that, by faith, the believer enters the kingdom now. In the various discourses he taught that two things are essential to faith-entrance into the kingdom:

170:2.21 (1861.3) 1. Faith, sincerity. To come as a little child, to receive the bestowal of sonship as a gift; to submit to the doing of the Father’s will without questioning and in the full confidence and genuine trustfulness of the Father’s wisdom; to come into the kingdom free from prejudice and preconception; to be open-minded and teachable like an unspoiled child.

170:2.22 (1861.4) 2. Truth hunger. The thirst for righteousness, a change of mind, the acquirement of the motive to be like God and to find God.

132:3.4 (1459.4) Revealed truth, personally discovered truth, is the supreme delight of the human soul; it is the joint creation of the material mind and the indwelling spirit. The eternal salvation of this truth-discerning and beauty-loving soul is assured by that hunger and thirst for goodness which leads this mortal to develop a singleness of purpose to do the Father’s will, to find God and to become like him. There is never conflict between true knowledge and truth. There may be conflict between knowledge and human beliefs, beliefs colored with prejudice, distorted by fear, and dominated by the dread of facing new facts of material discovery or spiritual progress.

132:3.5 (1459.5) But truth can never become man’s possession without the exercise of faith. This is true because man’s thoughts, wisdom, ethics, and ideals will never rise higher than his faith, his sublime hope. And all such true faith is predicated on profound reflection, sincere self-criticism, and uncompromising moral consciousness. Faith is the inspiration of the spiritized creative imagination.

132:3.6 (1459.6) Faith acts to release the superhuman activities of the divine spark, the immortal germ, that lives within the mind of man, and which is the potential of eternal survival. Plants and animals survive in time by the technique of passing on from one generation to another identical particles of themselves. The human soul (personality) of man survives mortal death by identity association with this indwelling spark of divinity, which is immortal, and which functions to perpetuate the human personality upon a continuing and higher level of progressive universe existence. The concealed seed of the human soul is an immortal spirit. The second generation of the soul is the first of a succession of personality manifestations of spiritual and progressing existences, terminating only when this divine entity attains the source of its existence, the personal source of all existence, God, the Universal Father.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Van AmadonParticipant
Sep 5, 2016, 11:14 PM
Ramblon,

Try to avoid letting so called common sense keep you wondering about how the Urantia Book came to be and thereby be completely distracted from what the Urantia Book is. It’s obvious it’s source is higher than human. No man could write such a thing as the Urantia Book. When you finish reading all of it you’ll know this too. Besides, what if what you think you’re sure of (that the Urantia Book is fraudulently authored by a man) ends up being nothing but a trap of wasted time that could have been better spent advancing what you haven’t doubt about, to become even more than certain of that and in addition, much much more? Nothing that isn’t true can be lost, except time.

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