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True Religion

56 posts · 8 participants · started Jul 17, 2014, 1:33 PM

BradlyParticipant
Jul 17, 2014, 1:33 PM
Welcome truthseekers, pilgrims, and fellow tadpoles!! One of the most thrilling discoveries for me as a new student of the UB long, long ago was finally to find the “true religion” defined in ways that immediately illuminated and settled this age old debate and claim by so many different religions. True religion is simply that personal discovery and realization of God that then changes us in ways that align our being with God’s way and will and affects the believer’s choices and acts that further serve that way and will. There are therefore as many true religions as there are religionists experiencing faith, love, and service to God and our fellows. Jesus defined it for us simply – love God and love one another. The universe is designed for the personalized unique experience and expression of this true religion – uniformity in experience or expression is not the goal or plan or way, is not desirable, nor is it possible.

The truth content in this true religion can only be confirmed by the results – the changes brought forth in the religionist related to motive, intention, priority, choice, and act in our daily life or …… as we walk by. The true vine brings forth true fruit. We are given many descriptions of this fruit of the spirit which confirms the unique religious experience of pilgrims and tadpoles. Religion is a huge topic in the UB and has always been my favorite section of the Revelation – Papers 99-103. True religion is true to the extent that it brings change to the religionist. I hope you will join me in study, contemplation, and sharing to learn more about true religion as it is taught and as we each have discovered it in our daily walk. The purpose, I think, of religion in this mortal life is the transfer of our seat of identity from the material realm of our mortal birth to the spirit realm and God within – our actual source and potential destiny….spiritization and soul building – circle progress. True religion is, therefor, transformative – or it is simply not true. To have value and bring meaning, religious living transforms the religionist by the choices of our free will which align with universe reality. The more transformative truth in our experience, the more reality-aligned we become, the more spirit centered we are, and the clearer the path ahead becomes for us day to day, challenge to challenge, confusion to confusion, confirmation to confirmation. True religion is not something found, held, or static, it is living truth-fully, as earnestly, sincerely, and eagerly as we can.

This does not make our facts, knowledge, beliefs, conclusions, etc. all accurate! Hardly. Uniformity of those is not required for the individual seeker to prosper and progress. Truth discovery, learning, discerning, choosing, and choosing better will remain an endless and personal transformation for the religionist as we approach closer and closer to universe reality…..our Source and Center….the destiny of Paradise and Finality. Welcome to the discussion:

(1129.8) 103:1.1 The unity of religious experience among a social or racial group derives from the identical nature of the God fragment indwelling the individual. It is this divine in man that gives origin to his unselfish interest in the welfare of other men. But since personality is unique — no two mortals being alike — it inevitably follows that no two human beings can similarly interpret the leadings and urges of the spirit of divinity which lives within their minds. A group of mortals can experience spiritual unity, but they can never attain philosophic uniformity. And this diversity of the interpretation of religious thought and experience is shown by the fact that twentieth-century theologians and philosophers have formulated upward of five hundred different definitions of religion. In reality, every human being defines religion in the terms of his own experiential interpretation of the divine impulses emanating from the God spirit that indwells him, and therefore must such an interpretation be unique and wholly different from the religious philosophy of all other human beings.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
JulianParticipant
Jul 19, 2014, 1:50 AM
Thank you Bradley for your superb introduction to this new forum and your beautifully worded commentary on true religion. How liberating truth can be ! I would like to add a quote which reinforces the value of forums like this to the truth-seeking individual:

P1130:2 While your religion is a matter of personal experience, it is most important that you should be exposed to the knowledge of a vast number of other religious experiences (the diverse interpretations of other and diverse mortals) to the end that you may prevent your religious life from becoming egocentric—circumscribed, selfish, and unsocial.

My hope and prayer is that this forum will prove to be a great blessing to all truth-hungry mortals.

Love,

Julian
BradlyParticipant
Jul 22, 2014, 1:55 PM
Greetings Julian and thank you. It would appear, from this Paper – The Reality of Religious Experience – that we begin our mortal journey seeking out this true religion of personal experience or personality unification:

(1131.9) 103:2.10 Man tends to identify the urge to be self-serving with his ego — himself. In contrast he is inclined to identify the will to be altruistic with some influence outside himself — God. And indeed is such a judgment right, for all such nonself desires do actually have their origin in the leadings of the indwelling Thought Adjuster, and this Adjuster is a fragment of God. The impulse of the spirit Monitor is realized in human consciousness as the urge to be altruistic, fellow-creature minded. At least this is the early and fundamental experience of the child mind. When the growing child fails of personality unification, the altruistic drive may become so overdeveloped as to work serious injury to the welfare of the self. A misguided conscience can become responsible for much conflict, worry, sorrow, and no end of human unhappiness.

I am so blessed to have both a righteous mother and father figure who nurtured this altruism and love of both God and His creation and His people from the time of my birth to the time of my youthful foolishness to my maturity in religious progress – spiritization. I am amazed by those who find truth, beauty, goodness, love and universe reality without such an example – but many do. The urges which drive us into “true religion” – that personal experience and free will choice of spirit identification and our unique expression of that reality and progress – are innate and relentless, as this is the purpose and meaning of life itself – identification with creator and creation in harmonious integration with the material life we have been given. Peace.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BradlyParticipant
Aug 6, 2014, 1:08 PM
Some more elements of true religion – the experiential, personalization of spirit within and the fruits which result:

(1095.2) 100:1.7 Religion cannot be bestowed, received, loaned, learned, or lost. It is a personal experience which grows proportionally to the growing quest for final values. Cosmic growth thus attends on the accumulation of meanings and the ever-expanding elevation of values. But nobility itself is always an unconscious growth.

(1095.3) 100:1.8 Religious habits of thinking and acting are contributory to the economy of spiritual growth. One can develop religious predispositions toward favorable reaction to spiritual stimuli, a sort of conditioned spiritual reflex. Habits which favor religious growth embrace cultivated sensitivity to divine values, recognition of religious living in others, reflective meditation on cosmic meanings, worshipful problem solving, sharing one’s spiritual life with one’s fellows, avoidance of selfishness, refusal to presume on divine mercy, living as in the presence of God. The factors of religious growth may be intentional, but the growth itself is unvaryingly unconscious.

So then, true religion comes only from within and cannot come from without – it is discovered and pursued by the religionist into expression by our choices and our priorities. Religion is not about belief, but further requires the faith to act on that belief – acts within the uncertainties and vicissitudes and every intersection of our life. Everything is religious to the devout religionist – even the secular and mundane offer opportunities of discovery – meanings and values are everywhere to be found in life.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Aug 6, 2014, 2:14 PM
What do you suppose the relationship is between revelation and true religion?

155:5.5 True religion — the religion of revelation. The revelation of supernatural values, a partial insight into eternal realities, a glimpse of the goodness and beauty of the infinite character of the Father in heaven — the religion of the spirit as demonstrated in human experience.
MaraParticipant
Aug 6, 2014, 3:08 PM
True religion is not the consciousness to be like God, not the feelings of emotion to worship God, not the conviction to forsake self and serve God. True religion is a faith trust in the goodness of God. It refers to destiny – a person should have ideas about life after death – and the reality of attainment: the personal experience of achieving better reaction habits in relationships with other people such as curbing the tendency to be critical of them. It refers to intellectual attainments as well, not in the sense of the body of knowledge one has acquired, but rather the meanings and insight derived from it and applied to life lovingly in such a way as other benefit from it.

160:5:13 [#4]

The consciousness of the impulse to be like God is not true religion. The feelings of the emotion to worship God are not true religion. The knowledge of the conviction to forsake self and serve God is not true religion. The wisdom of the reasoning that this religion is the best of all is not religion as a personal and spiritual experience. True religion has reference to destiny and reality of attainment as well as to the reality and idealism of that which is wholeheartedly faith-accepted. And all of this must be made personal to us by the revelation of the Spirit of Truth.

The SoT reveals truth by direct personal ministry.

101:2:12

Revelation as an epochal phenomenon is periodic; as a personal human experience it is continuous. Divinity functions in mortal personality as the Adjuster gift of the Father, as the Spirit of Truth of the Son, and as the Holy Spirit of the Universe Spirit, while these three supermortal endowments are unified in human experiential evolution as the ministry of the Supreme.
TUBParticipant
Aug 6, 2014, 3:12 PM
I think that what people call religion is usually just a 6th adjutant phenomenon of zeal. In order for there to be True Religion it needs to be personal and spiritual. It has to be through spiritual insight which is the 3rd cosmic intuition.
BradlyParticipant
Aug 6, 2014, 3:41 PM

Bonita wrote:

What do you suppose the relationship is between revelation and true religion?

Me here: I don’t think one can be experiencing true religion without revelation “response”. It is the connection to spirit that is source and result, both, of true religious experience.

Mara wrote:

It refers to destiny – a person should have ideas about life after death – and the reality of attainment: the personal experience of achieving better reaction habits in relationships with other people such as curbing the tendency to be critical of them.

Me here: Excellent point! The “reaction habits” and response-ability of the religionist is changed by the experience of true religion.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Aug 6, 2014, 3:59 PM

Mara wrote:

. . . the personal experience of achieving better reaction habits in relationships with other people such as curbing the tendency to be critical of them.

What do you mean by being critical? Are you referring to judgmental opinions or to the attempt for intelligent and philosophical interpretation of another person’s religion? Certainly the motive must be considered, don’t you think? After all, sincere people should not be afraid of “the critical examination of their true convictions and noble ideals.” (146:3.2)
BonitaParticipant
Aug 6, 2014, 4:07 PM

TUB wrote: It has to be through spiritual insight which is the 3rd cosmic intuition.

Yes, and spiritual insight is God-consciousness (91:7.12) God-consciousness is more than being aware of the idea of the existence of God. God consciousness is an actual relationship with God, a relationship which strives to know the thoughts and personal nature of God revealed within one’s own soul.
BonitaParticipant
Aug 6, 2014, 4:15 PM

Bradly wrote:

Me here: I don’t think one can be experiencing true religion without revelation “response”. It is the connection to spirit that is source and result, both, of true religious experience.

The “connection to spirit”? Do you mean like the living vine? The living vine is the Spirit of Truth (180:2.1; 180:2.4), the personal revelation of truth to the soul.

And Jesus said that if we maintain this connection with him we will be able to bear fruit as well as commune with him freely. Pretty amazing stuff. I don’t think you can have true religion without it.

180:2.1 If you will maintain this living spiritual connection with me, you will bear abundant fruit. If you abide in me and my words live in you, you will be able to commune freely with me, and then can my living spirit so infuse you that you may ask whatsoever my spirit wills and do all this with the assurance that the Father will grant us our petition.

180:2.5 When there exists this living connection between divinity and humanity, if humanity should thoughtlessly and ignorantly pray for selfish ease and vainglorious accomplishments, there could be only one divine answer: more and increased bearing of the fruits of the spirit on the stems of the livingbranches. When the branch of the vine is alive, there can be only one answer to all its petitions: increased grape bearing. In fact, the branch exists only for, and can do nothing except, fruit bearing, yielding grapes. So does the true believer exist only for the purpose of bearing the fruits of the spirit: to love man as he himself has been loved by God — that we should love one another, even as Jesus has loved us.

193:2.2 If professed believers bear not these fruits of the divine spirit in their lives, they are dead; the Spirit of Truth is not in them; they are useless branches on the living vine, and they soon will be taken away. My Father requires of the children of faith that they bear much spirit fruit.
TUBParticipant
Aug 6, 2014, 5:34 PM
Why would the authors add the word “personal” to “spiritual religious experience” in this quote below, isn’t all “spiritual religious experience” naturally personally?

^(2093.6) ^196:3.1 Personal, spiritual religious experience is an efficient solvent for most mortal difficulties; it is an effective sorter, evaluator, and adjuster of all human problems.

If its merely a 6th adjutant phenomenon it will feel like religion but in reality it will be an experience of mindal energy that feels like spirit. The authors sometimes talk about mere evolutionary religion in the book but they don’t always let you know when. In the primitive religion section its obvious that the authors are talking about mere evolutionary religion but sometimes its not always apparent. We are left to connect the dots much of the time. This quote is obviously talking about True religion as opposed to mere religion. If its personal its true. If its merely “spiritual” or something that feels spiritual it is a 6th adjutant phenomenon. I put spiritual in quotation marks because its not truly spiritual if its only a 6th adjutant phenomenon but it will very much feel like spirit to the person who is experiencing it.
BonitaParticipant
Aug 6, 2014, 5:51 PM

TUB wrote:

Why would the authors add the word “personal” to “spiritual religious experience” in this quote below, isn’t all “spiritual religious experience” naturally personally?

Because not all religious experience is spiritual. Some people claim to have religious experiences when they are actually uprushes from the subconscious mind. Many people think that mystical experiences are religious experiences. By using the word spiritual, the author is referring to religious experiences derived from the superconscious rather than the subconscious. At least that’s one way to explain it.

I don’t think it’s possible for us to determine the difference between the sixth adjutant mind spirit and the seventh since their function is unified once the Holy Spirit arrives. The sixth adjutant is under the direction of the seventh, and both are encircuited and influenced by the Holy Spirit (110:6.13)
nelsongParticipant
Aug 7, 2014, 12:28 AM
Ill add this if you don’t mind Bradley:

recently had an experience where I was able to see what I believed to be true religion in a person that I am working with.

Asked him if he was religious and he said no. I said: yes you are. Prior to this I had no idea about his religious involvement, the topic had never come up.

Conversation got interesting after that and after thinking about it and what it was that I actually observed it was not what one would expect from observing a religionist, it was work related – work ethic, dedication, personal attitude, altruism passion to learn and do outstanding work – even on his own time without pay. Even though this was very material related I saw religion in it. There is something truly religious in it wouldn’t you say? Do you really need to be conscious of God inside in order to exhibit these what I call God like qualities?

After that, looking for true religion in people has become a passion of mine. It has a way of penetrating to the outside in some people so it can be observed, even if they are not knowing religious.
TUBParticipant
Aug 7, 2014, 2:52 PM
Because not all religious experience is spiritual. Some people claim to have religious experiences when they are actually uprushes from the subconscious mind. Many people think that mystical experiences are religious experiences. By using the word spiritual, the author is referring to religious experiences derived from the superconscious rather than the subconscious. At least that’s one way to explain it.

I was trying to point out that not all “spiritual religious experience” is necessarily personal. In other words it could be just a mystic meditation. Normally we would just assume that a “spiritual religious experience” has to be personal no matter what. But the authors added the word “personal” which suggests that the phrase “spiritual religious experience” is not necessarily a personal experience because they had to qualify it as personal. If our minds are purely spiritual and that is our religious experience it won’t be personal because its not 3-fold. We can have a personal spiritual experience when its in that 3-fold domain.
BonitaParticipant
Aug 7, 2014, 3:47 PM

TUB wrote:

I was trying to point out that not all “spiritual religious experience” is necessarily personal.

Perhaps by adding the word personal they are trying to differentiate it from group religious experience, a part of social evolutionary religion. Can there be such a thing as e a group religious experience? Maybe, don’t know. We’ve certainly seen group hypnosis in cults and then there’s group think where a mass of people claim to witness miraculous phenomena that can never be proven, and we also have groups of religionists who get all fired up in pentecostal fashion, casting out demons, speaking in tongues, healing the sick and falling down in a stupor when taken over by the Holy Spirit.

But in reality, isn’t all genuine religious experience personal? How can it be otherwise?
TUBParticipant
Aug 7, 2014, 4:00 PM

But in reality, isn’t all genuine religious experience personal? How can it be otherwise?

^(1121.3)^102:3.1 Intellectual deficiency or educational poverty unavoidably handicaps higher religious attainment because such an impoverished environment of the spiritual nature robs religion of its chief channel of philosophic contact with the world of scientific knowledge. The intellectual factors of religion are important, but their overdevelopment is likewise sometimes very handicapping and embarrassing. Religion must continually labor under a paradoxical necessity: the necessity of making effective use of thought while at the same time discounting the spiritual serviceableness of all thinking.

If we overdevelop our religion, we have created an A-symmetrical mind. This quote is saying that if we overdevelop our religion its going to be crap. There isn’t that 3-fold harmony. Religion by itself is just a fairy tale of conscience. It needs to be lifted up by philosophy. And then correlated with science. This quote below is essentially pointing to the same thing.

^(1114.4) ^101:7.6 Philosophy transforms that primitive religion which was largely a fairy tale of conscience into a living experience in the ascending values of cosmic reality.

If our religion is just a fairy tale of conscience there is not a lot of personal activity there. When it gets transformed by philosophy religion turns into a living experience in the ascending values of cosmic reality. That cosmic reality is that 3-fold reality. A cosmic reality is not merely a spiritual reality or merely a material reality. But yes if its Genuine its personal. But not all “spiritual” experiences are genuinely True Religion.
BonitaParticipant
Aug 7, 2014, 4:39 PM

TUB wrote:

This quote is saying that if we overdevelop our religion its going to be crap.

I didn’t interpret the quote that way. The quote says the overdevelopment of the “intellectual factors of religion”. If you recall, early primitive religion was based upon an overdevelopment of the intellectual factors of religion. That’s what made it handicapping and embarrassing.

85:02 Early religion was wholly intellectual in nature and was entirely predicated on associational circumstances.

TUB wrote:

Religion by itself is just a fairy tale of conscience.

A fairy tale of conscience? That’s not what the quote is saying. It’s saying that conscience is the fairy tale, not religion. Primitive religion confirmed a fairy tale conscious. That doesn’t make the religion a fairy tale. It’s saying that whatever was going on in the conscience of men was a fairy tale and that fairy tale influenced their primitive religion. Religion has always fashioned its God concept from its highest level of recognized values. The conscience is not the highest level of value and religious concepts (intellectual factors), evolve right along with religion. But religion always stands for man’s highest values and is therefore valuable, even if it is based on fairy tales.

110:5.1 Conscience is a human and purely psychic reaction. It is not to be despised, but it is hardly the voice of God to the soul, which indeed the Adjuster’s would be if such a voice could be heard.

Conscience has nothing to do with personal revealed religion and its living experience of ascending values of cosmic reality. Philosophy can certainly aid in the mind discernment of reality, but personality is the only thing that can correlate and unify reality and all of its relationships.

p1111:3 101:5.10 Evolutionary religion provides only the assurance of faith and the confirmation of conscience; revelatory religion provides the assurance of faith plus the truth of a living experience in the realities of revelation.

112:1.17 But the concept of the personality as the meaning of the whole of the living and functioning creature means much more than the integration of relationships; it signifies the unification of all factors of reality as well as co-ordination of relationships.
BonitaParticipant
Aug 7, 2014, 6:03 PM

nelsong wrote:

it was work related – work ethic, dedication, personal attitude, altruism passion to learn and do outstanding work – even on his own time without pay. Even though this was very material related I saw religion in it. There is something truly religious in it wouldn’t you say?

It all depends on his motivation, doesn’t it. It is possible that he was doing all of it out of conscience, duty, an exalted form of humanism. Only he would know that though. Regardless, I think it is a good idea to look for religious living in other people. It is one of those religious habits of thinking that contribute to spiritual growth (100:1.8)

195:10.1 Religion is only an exalted humanism until it is made divine by the discovery of the reality of the presence of God in personal experience.
TUBParticipant
Aug 7, 2014, 9:52 PM
A fairy tale of conscience? That’s not what the quote is saying. It’s saying that conscience is the fairy tale, not religion.

That is exactly what it is saying word for word.

^(1114.4)^101:7.6 Philosophy transforms that primitive religion which was largely a fairy tale of conscience into a living experience in the ascending values of cosmic reality.

That primitive religion WAS a fairy tale of conscience. Not “that primitive religion CONFIRMED a fairy tale conscious.” The quote is saying something in real simple English. It is saying that “Philosophy transforms that religion which was largely a fairy tale of conscience…” There shouldn’t be anything confusing about that, other than how it rubs people who are purely religious the wrong way. It is saying that if we haven’t had our religion transformed by philosophy we are still living a primitive religion which is largely a fairy tale of conscience. They are talking about everyone here. Philosophy takes religion to its supremacy by putting it in the full 3-fold cosmic picture. It becomes a holistic religion within the context of a True Science and True Philosophy. Its not just its own island thing anymore.

110:5.1 Conscience is a human and purely psychic reaction. It is not to be despised, but it is hardly the voice of God to the soul, which indeed the Adjuster’s would be if such a voice could be heard.

Conscience has nothing to do with personal revealed religion and its living experience of ascending values of cosmic reality.

Yes I agree but that is what a primitive religion is to most of the world. Its not really religion. That’s why the authors call it primitive religion. Its not True Religion. But its still evolutionary religion because its evolving towards True Religion. When it gets transformed by Philosophy it becomes True Religion. That is why we shouldn’t despise it because its all most of us have as religion.

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