Oui.
Pulchrum nimis ut sit falsus
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Suffering
99 posts · 4 participants · started May 30, 2023, 4:53 PM
Que nous vivions le plan existentiel et son imperfection ne nous dit rien des origines de la souffrance ni de comment la surmonter quand elle sévit depuis des décennies.
(. . .imperfection tells us nothing about the origins of suffering or how to overcome it when it has been raging for decades.)
148:6.11 [Part IV]Then Jesus made this final statement: “The Father in heaven does not willingly afflict the children of men. Man suffers, first, from the accidents of time and the imperfections of the evil of an immature physical existence. Next, he suffers the inexorable consequences of sin — the transgression of the laws of life and light. And finally, man reaps the harvest of his own iniquitous persistence in rebellion against the righteous rule of heaven on earth. But man’s miseries are not a personal visitation of divine judgment. Man can, and will, do much to lessen his temporal sufferings. But once and for all be delivered from the superstition that God afflicts man at the behest of the evil one. Study the Book of Job just to discover how many wrong ideas of God even good men may honestly entertain; and then note how even the painfully afflicted Job found the God of comfort and salvation in spite of such erroneous teachings. At last his faith pierced the clouds of suffering to discern the light of life pouring forth from the Father as healing mercy and everlasting righteousness.”Que nous vivions le plan existentiel et son imperfection ne nous dit rien des origines de la souffrance ni de comment la surmonter quand elle sévit depuis des décennies.
Translator app:
“That we live the existential plan and its imperfection tells us nothing about the origins of suffering or how to overcome it when it has been raging for decades.”
Indeed. But certainly does the UB tell us a great deal about the causes and cures of all human suffering, and that of our celestial friends too!
Suffering is universal amongst the children of time. It is different from mortal epoch to mortal epoch and person to person but every material, evolutionary world suffers the consequences of imperfection and immaturity and false liberty from the time it is declared “inhabited” until the latter epochs of Light and Life.
Suffering is an inherent consequence of imperfection.
The origins of suffering, its causes, and its cures are no mystery to humanity and were known by most people far before the illumination provided by the Urantia Papers.
To reap what is sown – personally and/or socially – is rather obvious.
Cause and effect.
Suffering is the path forward for evolutionary progress…to understand its causes and pursue its solutions both. Personally and socially. Much personal suffering comes by way of social error and the repercussions of our collective false liberty.
Ultimately, universal sharing and caring will end suffering. Until that evolutionary inevitability materializes, we continue to suffer the consequences of the lack of humanity’s caring…and sharing.
Or so I understand…
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Oui Mara.
Autrement dit, le masochisme. Et avec le sourire 😆
Être conquistador. Conquérir son Amérique intérieure.
De beaux mots quand on a la tête sur le lavabo vomissant la chimiothérapie mais c’est ça et pas autre chose.
Pulchrum nimis ut sit falsus
Yes, words. And while I do not get the words of Cascdeur, I do get the tone and voice of his beautiful artistic expression. Nothing I say, using words, can do aught for you. Neither can the Urantia Book. It’s a book. More words. In spite of my shortcomings I feel your need.
So….masochism is to find pleasure in pain or humiliation. It is not any form of “suffering” as discussed here.
Pain may be a form of suffering but finding pleasure in pain is not, and evades the real nature of human suffering.
Pleasure and happiness are not the same. One may, somehow perhaps, find pleasure in pain (although such is impossible for me to comprehend), but there is no real or true happiness in suffering.
That’s the point.
When in the grip of illness, treatment, rehabilitation, and the pains and disabilities of physical recovery, there are many aspects to our suffering. All of those defy “words”, especially platitudes and pontifications.
But finding comfort in the Spirit and the eternal perspective is often the best way, perhaps only way (?), to cope with and endure our personal suffering, especially as we face our material mortality.
God is with us as we allow it to be so. God’s love and grace is ours to the degree we share it with others, no matter our own suffering.
Difficult lessons. Harsh realities.
Sometimes, the eternal adventures to come are the only comfort available to us when in the vice of pain and suffering today. Suffering is always temporary, but it never seems to feel that way while we suffer.
So sorry for your own suffering. I hope you find some peace and comfort and hope as an “ascending son” (fils ascendant) by the promise within your self chosen moniker.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
The origins of suffering, its causes, and its cures are no mystery to humanity and were known by most people far before the illumination provided by the Urantia Papers. To reap what is sown – personally and/or socially – is rather obvious.
To be clear, the origins of our suffering are often by the choices of others, either near or far, in both time and distance.
Many suffer by the personal choices of others and/or the collective motives, priorities, and acts of others over time.
The Urantia Papers also discuss this painful reality. We cannot escape the consequences of choice by others or the accidents of time which victimize persons or populations…as wars and weather and hunger and disease so often and so gruesomely demonstrate.
Sometimes only the future, or death itself, relieves human suffering. Time offers the eventual fairness and end of suffering unavailable in the moment we endure suffering.
12:7.11 (138.6)Brotherhood constitutes a fact of relationship between every personality in universal existence. No person can escape the benefits or the penalties that may come as a result of relationship to other persons. The part profits or suffers in measure with the whole. The good effort of each man benefits all men; the error or evil of each man augments the tribulation of all men. As moves the part, so moves the whole. As the progress of the whole, so the progress of the part. The relative velocities of part and whole determine whether the part is retarded by the inertia of the whole or is carried forward by the momentum of the cosmic brotherhood.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Merci Bradly.
Je crois que vos mots sont justes et que la souffrance n’a jamais été un appel à la perversion mais bien à la confiance et à l’humilité. Baisser la tête, continuer et ne pas tomber dans le désespoir. Ne pas faire trop de cas de souffrance et se focaliser sur ce qui fonctionne.
Voilà qui devrait aider bien des enfants du temps : c’est une prière.
Cette perspective du tout et de la partie est intéressante et pose la question de la légitimité de la libre disposition de sa vie. “Je peux me mutiler, c’est mon corps”.
Oui, sauf que tout le monde en souffre.
Est-ce une raison pour viser à contraindre la liberté d’autrui ?
La réponse n’est pas, c’est une raison pour ancrer la conscience de ses propres actes et, puisque tout est un tout, Le monde s’alignera.
Pulchrum nimis ut sit falsus
Merci Bradly. Je crois que vos mots sont justes et que la souffrance n’a jamais été un appel à la perversion mais bien à la confiance et à l’humilité. Baisser la tête, continuer et ne pas tomber dans le désespoir. Ne pas faire trop de cas de souffrance et se focaliser sur ce qui fonctionne. Voilà qui devrait aider bien des enfants du temps : c’est une prière. Cette perspective du tout et de la partie est intéressante et pose la question de la légitimité de la libre disposition de sa vie. “Je peux me mutiler, c’est mon corps”. Oui, sauf que tout le monde en souffre. Est-ce une raison pour viser à contraindre la liberté d’autrui ? La réponse n’est pas, c’est une raison pour ancrer la conscience de ses propres actes et, puisque tout est un tout, Le monde s’alignera.
Translation app:
“Thank you Bradly.
I believe that your words are right and that suffering has never been a call to perversion but rather to trust and humility. Put your head down, keep going and don’t fall into despair. Don’t make too much of suffering and focus on what works.
This should help many children of the time: it is a prayer.
This perspective of the whole and the part is interesting and raises the question of the legitimacy of the free disposition of one’s life. “I can mutilate myself, it’s my body.”
Yes, except that everyone suffers from it.
Is this a reason to aim to constrain the freedom of others?
The answer is not, it is a reason to anchor the awareness of one’s own actions and, since everything is a whole, the world will align.”
Beautifully said!
How do my motives, priorities, and choices affect others? My liberties have repercussions. Not just to me. Do I contribute truth, beauty, and goodness as I pass by?
Am I aware? Do I care? Do I heal suffering or am I its source?
And what of my own sufferings?
Can I share my glimpse of eternity and certainty of the eternal adventures to come despite those? Can I feel the joy of God’s tender affection and mercy, and the guiding Spirit within and still share that without blame and bitterness?
Do I add or take away from the progressive alignment of our world and universal family of the children of God?
Weighty questions worthy of attention and considerations.
Thank you fils ascendant!!
And best wishes in all things, great and small!
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
D’autres aspects à considérer…
À mesure de l’évolution humaine souffrance, la p eu surgir d’autant plus facilement que la sensibilité s’aiguise.
Plus j’aspire au beau, au vrai et au bon, plus des situations banales peuvent devenir souffrantes. D’où l’importance de nouveaux concepts de l’ajusteur de pensée pour relier avec toujours plus de justesse, significations et valeurs.
Existe-t-il une tension entre proclamer avoir la volonté de faire la volonté du Père (qui mènera assez certainement à des situations sales pour faire fleurir le beau) et l’entreprise de faire fleurir le beau d’une manière « autonome » ?
Le symbolisme de ce qui occasionne de la peut souffrance permettre de comprendre sur quoi agir pour équilibrer son système.
166:4.10 (1831.1)« En matière de maladie et de santé, vous devriez savoir que ces états physiques résultant de causes matérielles. La santé n’est pas un sourire du ciel, ni la maladie un froncement de sourcils de Dieu
La joie, l’amour du Père universel, dissipe toute souffrance.
Anna Karénine exceptée (sic)
Est-il si bon que cela de nourrir ce sujet ici ?
. Clin d’œil
Pulchrum nimis ut sit falsus
D’autres aspects à considérer… À mesure de l’évolution humaine souffrance, la p eu surgir d’autant plus facilement que la sensibilité s’aiguise.
Plus j’aspire au beau, au vrai et au bon, plus des situations banales peuvent devenir souffrantes. D’où l’importance de nouveaux concepts de l’ajusteur de pensée pour relier avec toujours plus de justesse, significations et valeurs.
Existe-t-il une tension entre proclamer avoir la volonté de faire la volonté du Père (qui mènera assez certainement à des situations sales pour faire fleurir le beau) et l’entreprise de faire fleurir le beau d’une manière « autonome » ?
Le symbolisme de ce qui occasionne de la peut souffrance permettre de comprendre sur quoi agir pour équilibrer son système.
166:4.10 (1831.1)« En matière de maladie et de santé, vous devriez savoir que ces états physiques résultant de causes matérielles. La santé n’est pas un sourire du ciel, ni la maladie un froncement de sourcils de Dieu La joie, l’amour du Père universel, dissipe toute souffrance.
Anna Karénine exceptée (sic)
Est-il si bon que cela de nourrir ce sujet ici ?
Clin d’œil
Translator app:
“Other aspects to consider…As human evolution suffers, pain can arise more easily as sensitivity sharpens.
The more I aspire to beauty, truth, and goodness, the more ordinary situations can become painful.
Hence the importance of new concepts from the thought adjuster to connect meanings and values with ever greater accuracy.
Is there a tension between proclaiming to have the will to do the will of the Father (which will almost certainly lead to dirty situations to make the beautiful flourish) and the endeavor to make the beautiful flourish in an ‘autonomous’ way?
The symbolism of what causes some pain can help understand what to act upon to balance one’s system.
166:4.10 (1831.1) “In matters of disease and health, you should know that these physical states result from material causes. Health is not a smile from heaven, nor is illness a frown from God.
Joy, the love of the universal Father, dispels all suffering.
Anna Karenina excepted (sic).
Is it so good to bring up this subject here?
Wink.”
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Yes, the very nature of our “suffering” changes with social evolution and also by our personal spiritization.
We not only suffer when sin is chosen (intentionality) but also when the lesser good is chosen by our inexperience, over the better and wiser options available to us.
Even pure motives do not overcome inexperience or immaturity or less effective strategies, tactics, and timing.
As calculating and wise as was (is) the Master, still was he often surprised by unintended outcomes. Jesus faced uncertainty in his strategic planning due to the fluidity of situations and circumstances and human freewill of all others, and simple serendipity I think.
Humans plan and the Gods laugh!!
Experiential Wisdom is a never ending progression of perfecting by suffering the repercussions of error and the imperfections in time.
Or so I understand…
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
So…it appears that suffering becomes less and less physical/material for mortals as we experience progressive planetary evolutionary by spiritualization, as we approach and traverse the ages of Light and Life.
Less war and crime and hate and hunger and disease. Less and less.
But more and more kindness and caring and sharing and greater experiential wisdom in applying the Golden Rule of fairness, equity, diversity, and inclusion.
Fewer and fewer laws and courts and government regulations and declining nationalism and fading racism by our racial amalgamation and rising family of God social development.
Society becomes more and more stable. Social progress becomes more certain and reliable. This progressive perfecting of the group makes the lifestyle struggles for the individuals of the group less dramatic and less uncertain and society creates more certain momentum and more predictable trajectory for each mortal in the group.
Study Papers 52 and 55 to learn of this inevitable planetary destiny which is already a million year old story of this evolutionary progress.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Sorry
My reflection in Motion
I agree that we are living in dangerous times, with the wrong form of government taking control of our nation. Some people are filled with so much hate that they want to see others suffer just because they dislike differences and open-mindedness. Our society is becoming increasingly divided between blue and red parties. The red group appears to want to make the blue group suffer both materially and spiritually out of spite. I truly hope we can all come together and push through this struggle against the darkness into the light.
Democracy has much promise in its ideals, however, democracy itself does not require experiential wisdom or eliminate the consequences of self serving false liberty nor deliver fairness, equity, inclusion, and justice to the ever present diverse minorities within every population.
Certainly has “democracy”, like evolutionary religions, been the source of great personal and social suffering.
71:2.1 (801.13)Democracy, while an ideal, is a product of civilization, not of evolution. Go slowly! select carefully! for the dangers of democracy are:
71:2.2 (801.14)1. Glorification of mediocrity.
71:2.3 (801.15)2. Choice of base and ignorant rulers.
71:2.4 (801.16)3. Failure to recognize the basic facts of social evolution.
71:2.5 (801.17)4. Danger of universal suffrage in the hands of uneducated and indolent majorities.
71:2.6 (801.18)5. Slavery to public opinion; the majority is not always right.
71:2.7 (802.1)Public opinion, common opinion, has always delayed society; nevertheless, it is valuable, for, while retarding social evolution, it does preserve civilization. Education of public opinion is the only safe and true method of accelerating civilization; force is only a temporary expedient, and cultural growth will increasingly accelerate as bullets give way to ballots. Public opinion, the mores, is the basic and elemental energy in social evolution and state development, but to be of state value it must be nonviolent in expression.
71:2.8 (802.2) The measure of the advance of society is directly determined by the degree to which public opinion can control personal behavior and state regulation through nonviolent expression. The really civilized government had arrived when public opinion was clothed with the powers of personal franchise. Popular elections may not always decide things rightly, but they represent the right way even to do a wrong thing. Evolution does not at once produce superlative perfection but rather comparative and advancing practical adjustment.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Paper 71 offers great practical and actionable social priorities for our progressive, evolutionary trajectory. But until transparency and accountability are required of elected representatives and civil servants, and so long as big money minorities determine political platforms and candidates and policies and priorities imposed upon the electorate, then will democracy continue to fail in its potential and will remain the source of much suffering.
Personally, it’s my opinion, that the USA does not operate according to any true majority, either foolish or wise. The electorate is simply manipulated by big money interests and not really represented or served at all.
71:4.1 (804.1)Economics, society, and government must evolve if they are to remain. Static conditions on an evolutionary world are indicative of decay; only those institutions which move forward with the evolutionary stream persist.
71:4.2 (804.2)The progressive program of an expanding civilization embraces:
71:4.3 (804.3)1. Preservation of individual liberties.
71:4.4 (804.4)2. Protection of the home.
71:4.5 (804.5)3. Promotion of economic security.
71:4.6 (804.6)4. Prevention of disease.
71:4.7 (804.7)5. Compulsory education.
71:4.8 (804.8)6. Compulsory employment.
71:4.9 (804.9)7. Profitable utilization of leisure.
71:4.10 (804.10)8. Care of the unfortunate.
71:4.11 (804.11)9. Race improvement.
71:4.12 (804.12)10. Promotion of science and art.
71:4.13 (804.13)11. Promotion of philosophy—wisdom.
71:4.14 (804.14)12. Augmentation of cosmic insight—spirituality.
71:4.15 (804.15)And this progress in the arts of civilization leads directly to the realization of the highest human and divine goals of mortal endeavor—the social achievement of the brotherhood of man and the personal status of God-consciousness, which becomes revealed in the supreme desire of every individual to do the will of the Father in heaven.
71:4.16 (804.16)The appearance of genuine brotherhood signifies that a social order has arrived in which all men delight in bearing one another’s burdens; they actually desire to practice the golden rule. But such an ideal society cannot be realized when either the weak or the wicked lie in wait to take unfair and unholy advantage of those who are chiefly actuated by devotion to the service of truth, beauty, and goodness. In such a situation only one course is practical: The “golden rulers” may establish a progressive society in which they live according to their ideals while maintaining an adequate defense against their benighted fellows who might seek either to exploit their pacific predilections or to destroy their advancing civilization.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Premièrement, ne pas donner à l’état la possibilité de nous faire souffrir (pour raccrocher le sujet).
Cela signifie lui rappeler sa/ses raison/s d’être … à savoir le bien-être de l’homme.
Facile à dire mais certains l’ont largement fait notamment en Amérique avec les Amishs, les Mormons et les multiples communautés autogérées.
Mais, sans aller jusque-là, et avec l’aide des forces, il est possible de réduire considérablement la présence de l’État dans sa vie en s’appuyant sur les revenus de son activité pour prendre en charge la majorité des dépenses soient-disant indispensables. Plus on avance dans l’évolution et plus on se rend compte que l’homme est à peu près autosuffisant et alors, alors seulement, selon moi, il est prêt pour une réelle vie sociale équilibrée.
Tant qu’il est en attente de ceci ou cela auprès des autres pour vivre, il me semble que la souffrance peut facilement s’immiscer dans le quotidien de l’homme.
Pulchrum nimis ut sit falsus
Premièrement, ne pas donner à l’état la possibilité de nous faire souffrir (pour raccrocher le sujet).
Cela signifie lui rappeler sa/ses raison/s d’être … à savoir le bien-être de l’homme.
Facile à dire mais certains l’ont largement fait notamment en Amérique avec les Amishs, les Mormons et les multiples communautés autogérées.
Mais, sans aller jusque-là, et avec l’aide des forces, il est possible de réduire considérablement la présence de l’État dans sa vie en s’appuyant sur les revenus de son activité pour prendre en charge la majorité des dépenses soient-disant indispensables. Plus on avance dans l’évolution et plus on se rend compte que l’homme est à peu près autosuffisant et alors, alors seulement, selon moi, il est prêt pour une réelle vie sociale équilibrée.
Tant qu’il est en attente de ceci ou cela auprès des autres pour vivre, il me semble que la souffrance peut facilement s’immiscer dans le quotidien de l’homme.
Translator app:
“Firstly, do not give the state the opportunity to make us suffer (to return to the subject).
This means reminding it of its reasons for being… namely, the well-being of man.Easy to say, but some have largely done so, particularly in America with the Amish, the Mormons, and the multiple self-managed communities.
But, without going that far, and with the help of resources, it is possible to significantly reduce the presence of the state in one’s life by relying on the income from one’s activities to cover most of the supposedly essential expenses.
The more one progresses in evolution, the more one realizes that man is pretty much self-sufficient, and only then, in my opinion, is he ready for a truly balanced social life.As long as he is waiting for this or that from others to live, it seems to me that suffering can easily creep into the daily life of man.”
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
“Firstly, do not give the state the opportunity to make us suffer (to return to the subject).
This means reminding it of its reasons for being… namely, the well-being of man.Easy to say, but some have largely done so, particularly in America with the Amish, the Mormons, and the multiple self-managed communities.
But, without going that far, and with the help of resources, it is possible to significantly reduce the presence of the state in one’s life by relying on the income from one’s activities to cover most of the supposedly essential expenses.
The more one progresses in evolution, the more one realizes that man is pretty much self-sufficient, and only then, in my opinion, is he ready for a truly balanced social life.As long as he is waiting for this or that from others to live, it seems to me that suffering can easily creep into the daily life of man.”
As one who has enjoyed the social privilege of being white AND male AND straight in the USA (just add money for America’s truly priveleged), with good health and supporting family and tribe, it is easy to overlook the inherent unfairness of NOT being white or male or straight….or me.
While it has not been easy for me to be independently self reliant, there are many obstacles and risks and outright dangers related to employment and housing and education and travel, etc. that I have never had to endure and overcome.
As a hippie/freak of the 70’s, I did taste discrimination but not so much really.
Democracy must deliver equal access to and protection by the law and provide equal opportunities to its citizens regardless of one’s differences in birth or circumstance or personal choices and preferences to pursue self reliance and true liberty without prejudice and injustice.
The list of the 12 duties and obligations of democracy listed above certainly embrace and endorse self reliance AND the opportunities to become so and to be so.
The UB warns about false sympathy for those who are self victimized, but the Master also taught us to be ever so kind and generous and patient and compassionate to those true victims of circumstances and situations imposed upon them by nature and society and the cruelty or indifference of others.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Sorry
My reflection in Motion
