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Question on The Tree of Life

40 posts · 8 participants · started Apr 20, 2019, 9:31 AM

BonitaParticipant
Apr 23, 2019, 1:34 PM

andré wrote:

Why A&E were not authorized to keep going God’s plans ? Could it be a question of trust ? Undoubtedly. Adam and Eve that default of trust culminated in degradation of status. 75:7.6 Could we included deviance of thinking?

I like that. After all, Eve did go against God’s will. That’s a breach of trust for sure. It’s also deviant thinking. Anything that goes against the will of God is deviant. But they were not guilty of contempt for truth, which I think speaks of motivation. I think they never stopped wanting to serve God, just went about it wrongly, which is evil.

What they had done was indeed evil, but they were never guilty of contempt for truth, . . . 75:7.7

Adam and Eve’s degradation of status was to the mortal level, which meant they had to be treated like any other mortal, therefore no tree of life. The tree of life is for supermortals and their associates, I think. Also, Adam and Eve had dual circulations, so removing life sustaining energy from one circulatory system would undoubtedly have caused a severe chemical imbalance in their bodies even if they did have access to the tree of life for the other circulatory system. Perhaps such an imbalance would have caused an even quicker death. Just speculating here.

Rick Warren wrote:

And then there’s that other question Bonita and I share, why was Urantia left without visible divinity for 30K years? So long did Urantia languish that an emergency bestowal had to precede Michael’s incarnation. Maybe the great gap in divine presence was to provide that more ‘striking backdrop’ for Michael’s bestowal… So many questions, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t answers, just a delay.

Perhaps it’s against God’s will to allow mere mortals to be examples of divinity. Adam and Eve did have the benefit of prior life experience with divinity, but no longer had direct access to it for problem solving. Even the Melchizedeks receivers wouldn’t advise them.

When Adam learned that the Nodites were on the march, he sought the counsel of the Melchizedeks, but they refused to advise him, only telling him to do as he thought best and promising their friendly co-operation, as far as possible, in any course he might decide upon. The Melchizedeks had been forbidden to interfere with the personal plans of Adam and Eve. 75:6.1

The Edenic pair were informed that they had degraded themselves to the status of the mortals of the realm; that they must henceforth conduct themselves as man and woman of Urantia, looking to the future of the world races for their future. 75:7.3

I do admire their struggle, but it’s a shame that it all got tangled up in mythology and Lucifer-induced twisted ideation. Rebels were still around to torture thought and influence behavior, unfortunately. Without help, I don’t think Adam and Eve could have overcome them.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 23, 2019, 2:28 PM

Bonita wrote in part:

…I do admire their struggle, but it’s a shame that it all got tangled up in mythology and Lucifer-induced twisted ideation…

That’s why I’ve long wanted to write a corrective novel based on their lives as re-revealed in Papers 73-76. After Jesus’, their story is the most fascinating, maybe in all Nebadon. It’s in the editor’s hands now, should be out before year’s end. It was a real thrill to write, and I have an inkling of an idea how it will be received outside the U-community, but not inside. It seemed to have worked out well to have several women assist with the description of the meeting of Eve and Cano. Looking forward to feedback.

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Richard E Warren
GeneParticipant
Apr 23, 2019, 2:55 PM
“When Adam learned that the Nodites were on the march, he sought the counsel of the Melchizedeks, but they refused to advise him, only telling him to do as he thought best and promising their friendly co-operation, as far as possible, in any course he might decide upon. The Melchizedeks had been forbidden to interfere with the personal plans of Adam and Eve. 75:6.1”

As humans, A&E likely needed some help with communications with Mel?
BonitaParticipant
Apr 23, 2019, 6:54 PM

Gene wrote:

As humans, A&E likely needed some help with communications with Mel?

Apparently not. Adam went to talk to Melchizedek to get advice. That doesn’t sound like he needed help to me. But it is interesting that Eve did loose contact with her husband when he was off those 30 days wandering around in despair. Before her default she was able to be in contact with him for up to 50 miles, but that type of telepathy was cut off when she defaulted. Maybe that was part of the mind circuit ministry she lost, don’t know. But we are told that they were able to see and talk to celestial beings for 100 years after the default.

Both the physical and spiritual visions of Adam and Eve were far superior to those of the present-day peoples. Their special senses were much more acute, and they were able to see the midwayers and the angelic hosts, the Melchizedeks, and the fallen Prince Caligastia, who several times came to confer with his noble successor. They retained the ability to see these celestial beings for over one hundred years after the default. These special senses were not so acutely present in their children and tended to diminish with each succeeding generation. 76:4.5

Adam and Eve could communicate with each other and with their immediate children over a distance of about fifty miles. This thought exchange was effected by means of the delicate gas chambers located in close proximity to their brain structures. By this mechanism they could send and receive thought oscillations. But this power was instantly suspended upon the mind’s surrender to the discord and disruption of evil. 74:6.6
AndréParticipant
Apr 24, 2019, 5:34 PM
Bonjour,

Concerning suprahumans beings [100 staff member of planetary Prince] + Material Son and Daughter … Why the neccessity to be Though Adjuster free ?

Any speculations arise when A&E were weighted spiritually regarding if suitable for mission on Urantia ?

It is the plan of your superiors to advance you by augmented trusts just as fast as your character is sufficiently developed to gracefully bear these added responsibilities, but to overload the individual only courts disaster and insures disappointment. And the mistake of placing responsibility prematurely upon either man or angel may be avoided by utilizing the ministry of these infallible estimators of the trust capacity of the individuals of time and space. These seconaphim ever accompany Those High in Authority, and never do these executives make assignments until their candidates have been weighed in the secoraphic balances and pronounced “not wanting.” 28:6.15

As it seems they were answerable as “to make weight”. Which weight, were they accountable to suit Urantia ?

André
BonitaParticipant
Apr 24, 2019, 5:56 PM

andré wrote:

Concerning suprahumans beings [100 staf member of planetary Prince] + Material Son and Daughter … Why the neccessity to be Though Adjuster free ?

Because they’re already immortal? I don’t think any of the descending Sons have Adjusters unless they begin the ascension career. According to the quote below, Material Sons and Daughters need experience on a physical world before they gain capacity for an Adjuster and begin their ascension career.

While living as permanent citizens on the system capitals, even when functioning on descending missions to the evolutionary planets, the Material Sons do not possess Thought Adjusters, but it is through these very services that they acquire experiential capacity for Adjuster indwellment and the Paradise ascension career. These unique and wonderfully useful beings are the connecting links between the spiritual and physical worlds. They are concentrated on the system headquarters, where they reproduce and carry on as material citizens of the realm, and whence they are dispatched to the evolutionary worlds. 51:1.6

So I guess your question might be: what is it about service on an evolutionary planet that opens up the capacity for Adjuster indwelling? I would guess it has something to do with providing new potentials for doing God’s will as part of the evolution of the Supreme. Just a guess though.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 24, 2019, 5:58 PM

andré wrote in part:

…Why the neccessity to be Though Adjuster free ?

And why weren’t Adam and Eve Adjustered long before coming to Urantia? Don’t know. But there must be a good reason(s).

.

Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 24, 2019, 6:02 PM

Our posting timing is almost in sync, Bonita. I ask questions, you provided answers two minutes before the asking

Thanks for the Paper 51 quote.

.

Bonita wrote in part:

…While living as permanent citizens on the system capitals, even when functioning on descending missions to the evolutionary planets, the Material Sons do not possess Thought Adjusters, but it is through these very services that they acquire experiential capacity for Adjuster indwellment and the Paradise ascension career. These unique and wonderfully useful beings are the connecting links between the spiritual and physical worlds. They are concentrated on the system headquarters, where they reproduce and carry on as material citizens of the realm, and whence they are dispatched to the evolutionary worlds. 51:1.6

Richard E Warren
AndréParticipant
Apr 24, 2019, 6:36 PM
Hi,

Melchizedek was immortal and his corpse was of same composition as the 100 [93:2.6] but him was granted a T/A [93:2.7] !!!

Ok, I understand T/A is exclusive to ascending humans beings … so why detached it from the 100?

mumbling/mumbling/mumbling

André

p.s. … just thinking out loud
AndréParticipant
Apr 24, 2019, 8:33 PM
Again,

Because they’re already immortal?

So, if the 100 are rendered immortal … thats means they fusioned with T/A then it itsn’t a particularity they became indissociable ?

There is something regarding the 100, Machiventa and Jesus [cede to a optimum efficiency for incarnation].

Give it up or give it in ?

André
BonitaParticipant
Apr 24, 2019, 9:00 PM
You’re right, the 100 were not immortal. They had not yet fused with their Adjusters. But they did have Adjusters until they were sent on the mission to this planet with descending Sons, at which time their Adjusters became temporarily detached. Why was it necessary for the Adjusters to detach for their mission? I don’t remember being able to figure that out, but maybe it had something to do with the fact that they were acting as descending Sons and descending Sons don’t get Adjusters. That’s just a theory though.

66:4.9 This group, while enjoying provisional citizenship on Jerusem, were as yet unfused with their Thought Adjusters; and when they volunteered and were accepted for planetary service in liaison with the descending orders of sonship, their Adjusters were detached. But these Jerusemites were superhuman beings — they possessed souls of ascendant growth. During the mortal life in the flesh the soul is of embryonic estate; it is born (resurrected) in the morontia life and experiences growth through the successive morontia worlds. And the souls of the Caligastia one hundred had thus expanded through the progressive experiences of the seven mansion worlds to citizenship status on Jerusem.

67:4.5 When the staff of one hundred came to Urantia, they were temporarily detached from their Thought Adjusters. Immediately upon the arrival of the Melchizedek receivers the loyal personalities (except Van) were returned to Jerusem and were reunited with their waiting Adjusters. We know not the fate of the sixty staff rebels; their Adjusters still tarry on Jerusem. Matters will undoubtedly rest as they now are until the entire Lucifer rebellion is finally adjudicated and the fate of all participants decreed.

Why did Jesus and Melchizedek get the same Adjuster? Or an Adjuster at all? Well, Jesus got one because he was human and was destined to begin the ascending career. As for Melchizedek? Don’t know for sure but maybe it was because he was entering into an evolutionary experience that contributes to the Supreme. At least that’s my current theory. Jesus got Melchizedek’s Adjuster because Jesus probably required a high functioning Adjuster with very special experience. That’s also my working theory.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 24, 2019, 10:33 PM
^93:2.7 ^(1016.1) This incarnated Melchizedek received a Thought Adjuster, who indwelt his superhuman personality as the monitor of time and the mentor of the flesh, thus gaining that experience and practical introduction to Urantian problems and to the technique of indwelling an incarnated Son which enabled this spirit of the Father to function so valiantly in the human mind of the later Son of God, Michael, when he appeared on earth in the likeness of mortal flesh. And this is the only Thought Adjuster who ever functioned in two minds on Urantia, but both minds were divine as well as human.

Valiantly!

Richard E Warren
AndréParticipant
Apr 25, 2019, 2:21 AM
Good evening,

That’s what is interesting wandering with speculations, imagination and a purpose:
my objective is to hang out with determinated peoples whom answer the call: be perfect as our Father is.

Get along with brothers and sisters with distinc unique perspectives. In an effort to develop teamworks abilities SO essential, crucial in brotherhood ascension.

Back to thread.

Why was it necessary for the Adjusters to detach for their mission?

We know those 100 all originate from others planets then Urantia.
Why not take 100 whom fused with T/A ?
We already have those fused ascenders personified by
successive administrations of the resident governors commission of twenty-four former Urantians with authority to represent him in the government of Urantia and all other quarantined planets in the system. One of this council is now always resident on Urantia as resident governor general..114:1.2

I”ll bet primary and secondary midwayers are infused with T/A !

André
BradlyParticipant
Apr 25, 2019, 12:36 PM
We are told that midwayers are not endowed with Adjusters (humanized) until late into the Light and Life era of every evolutionary world. I think about the time Adam and Eve are released from planetary duty and are likewise humanized and Adjuster indwelt. Now their ascension adventure to Paradise may proceed to serve in the Corps of Finality for our shared eternal adventure.

31:5.2 (349.2) When an advanced evolutionary world attains the later eras of the age of light and life, the Material Sons, the Planetary Adam and Eve, may elect to humanize, receive Adjusters, and embark upon the evolutionary course of universe ascent leading to the Corps of Mortal Finaliters. Certain of these Material Sons have partially failed or technically defaulted in their mission as biologic accelerators, as Adam did on Urantia; and then are they compelled to take the natural course of the peoples of the realm, receive Adjusters, pass through death, and progress by faith through the ascendant regime, subsequently attaining Paradise and the Corps of the Finality.

55:4.9 (627.7) The System Sovereign has authority to release midway creatures any time after the first settled stage so that they may humanize in the morontia by the aid of the Life Carriers and the physical controllers and, after receiving Thought Adjusters, start out on their Paradise ascension.

55:4.30 (629.8) Throughout all of these epochs the imported assisting Material Sons and Daughters exert a tremendous influence on the progressing social and economic orders. They are potentially immortal, at least until such time as they elect to humanize, receive Adjusters, and start for Paradise.

55:4.31 (629.9) On the evolutionary worlds a being must humanize to receive a Thought Adjuster. All ascendant members of the Mortal Corps of Finaliters have been Adjuster indwelt and fused except seraphim, and they are Father indwelt by another type of spirit at the time of being mustered into this corps.

I think Bonita’s theory on the 100 is spot on. They have accepted assignments as temporary descending sons. Only ascenders receive TA’s so far as I can tell. Faith operates in a different way in celestial mind than a Father Fragment endowed mind (I think). This is universal and not specific to Urantia. So there is precedent and reason for such temporary loss in the experience gained by each volunteer. Seems like s long commitment and season without such an influence and contact so it must offer some real value to mortals.

I wonder if the rebel staff were eventually reunited with their TA and rehabilitated thereby?

Really enjoying the conversation. Thanks to all.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Apr 25, 2019, 2:46 PM

andré wrote:

Why not take 100 whom fused with T/A ?

Great question. Can’t say as I know the answer, but I would think that TA fusion results in a certain ascending trajectory towards Paradise rather than one descending away from it. But that’s a big guess on my part.

andré wrote:

We already have those fused ascenders personified by successive administrations of the resident governors commission of twenty-four former Urantians with authority to represent him in the government of Urantia and all other quarantined planets in the system. One of this council is now always resident on Urantia as resident governor general..114:1.2

Those folks had their ascension career temporarily suspended by Gabriel so they can invisibly serve us. Why? I don’t know. But they do not have visible bodies of flesh and blood like the Prince’s staff of 100, nor do they have to experience all the vicissitudes resulting from living in those bodies on this physical planet. Not sure if that matters.

45:4.19 These selected personalities are exempt from the ascension regime for the time being, on Gabriel’s request, and we have no idea how long they may serve in this capacity.
Nigel NunnParticipant
Apr 26, 2019, 2:03 AM
andré wrote:

“Why was it necessary for the Adjusters to detach for their mission?“

Here’s an idea: those 100 non-fused ascenders all shared what we might call a “Jerusem perspective”. Such a frame of reference must be at least equivalent to the worldview during planetary “light and life“, so the probability would have been high that, had their Adjusters not been temporarily detached, then during their long mission, many or all would have fused.

If such fusion in the flesh leads inevitably to “Son Seizure (49:6.18)“, this may have interfered with their mission?

Picture the Planetary Prince, watching his staff, one by one, disappear in unavoidable spiritual orgasm

Nigel
BonitaParticipant
Apr 26, 2019, 2:46 PM
That’s an interesting theory Nigel. Just wondering though. Don’t you think the Adjuster can control the timing of fusion to suit God’s will?
AndréParticipant
Jul 26, 2019, 9:00 AM
Points of view …

Post #34799 Rick

... Maybe the great gap in divine presence was to provide that more ‘striking backdrop’ for Michael’s bestowal !

The only gap was one of visibility. And still it, Urantia never was used in its “misfortune” to provided an astonishing context for Michael”s bestowal. Misleads’s errors and its ungodly descent gulf caught His attention.

…why was Urantia left without visible divinity for 30K years?

… seems a major case, whom generalize 7 Superuniverses; i n v i s i b i l i t y.

Faith-vision (1:3.3) suggest as a prerequisite for a spiritual development.

…To me, her error seems so small and insignificant (maybe because we are virtually numb to error and sin) compared to the monumental consequences. Then Adam, following her lead, caused another error …

… among readers of UB a lot pinpoint judicially/physically/spiritually the error of Eve. Yahhhhh !!! but prior to her error, Adam was a pain in the neck (75:0.1) it didn’t excuse an error.

Thanks Rick,

André
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jul 26, 2019, 10:22 AM

andré wrote:

Points of view … Post #34799 Rick ... Maybe the great gap in divine presence was to provide that more ‘striking backdrop’ for Michael’s bestowal ! The only gap was one of visibility. And still it, Urantia never was used in its “misfortune” to provided an astonishing context for Michael”s bestowal. Misleads’s errors and its ungodly descent gulf caught His attention.

Ok, agreed, divine presence was NOT absent, just unseeable. But one has to ask, why did Urantia languish so long without the visible presence of the Father’s representatives on Earth (160,000 years after the first default, 33,000 after the second). Why couldn’t Adam and Eve have had more help well-knowing they were entering a quarantined planet? And if they had more help, if another son had been sent to replace the fallen Prince, would Urantia still have been chosen by Michael? So many questions, most will have to wait until we get to Mansonia, eh?

…why was Urantia left without visible divinity for 30K years? … seems a major case, whom generalize 7 Superuniverses; i n v i s i b i l i t y. Faith-vision (1:3.3) suggest as a prerequisite for a spiritual development.

Major indeed, a whole epoch or two!

…To me, her error seems so small and insignificant (maybe because we are virtually numb to error and sin) compared to the monumental consequences. Then Adam, following her lead, caused another error … … among readers of UB a lot pinpoint judicially/physically/spiritually the error of Eve. Yahhhhh !!! but prior to her error, Adam was a pain in the neck (75:0.1) it didn’t excuse an error. Thanks Rick, André

Thanks André. Complaining like that to Eve must surely have influenced her bad decision, don’t you think? He was depressed, nothing went right, no matter how hard he tried.

.

Richard E Warren
AndréParticipant
Jul 26, 2019, 7:50 PM
- Probably, specifics, determined situations must arise to favorise nursery’s agondonters.
- Another Son was send, Christ Michael, he was not able to reverse our situation through snap of the fingers. Freewill prerogative.
- Adam and Eve received pre-incarnation of Urantia, all the help necessary for their mission. They were even weighted spiritually suitable.
Traitorous Caligastia succeed to compromise A & E but failed involved them in rebellion. (51:3.4)

Nothing could surprise our God the Father, but us yessssss. Plans of God, syncronisation, orchestration of them will blows our minds … we’ll see how He personnify Wisdom.

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