so what is the purpose to our bodies?
should be obvious, right?
Preview: a read-only copy of the forum. To post or reply, use the current forum.
Purpose to everything
60 posts · 9 participants · started Aug 18, 2016, 2:43 PM
. . . the purpose to our bodies?
I’m not sure where you want to go. This is not a direct answer, because as you say, it is obvious we’re animal-origin children of time,
112:2:6 In all concepts of selfhood it should be recognized that the fact of life comes first, its evaluation or interpretation later. The human child first lives and subsequently thinks about his living. In the cosmic economy insight precedes foresight.Life first, then thinking about it.115:1:1 Partial, incomplete, and evolving intellects would be helpless in the master universe, would be unable to form the first rational thought pattern, were it not for the innate ability of all mind, high or low, to form a universe frame in which to think. If mind cannot fathom conclusions, if it cannot penetrate to true origins, then will such mind unfailingly postulate conclusions and invent origins that it may have a means of logical thought within the frame of these mind-created postulates. And while such universe frames for creature thought are indispensable to rational intellectual operations, they are, without exception, erroneous to a greater or lesser degree.Mind is joined to matter.1:3:7 In the inner experience of man, mind is joined to matter. Such material-linked minds cannot survive mortal death. The technique of survival is embraced in those adjustments of the human will and those transformations in the mortal mind whereby such a God-conscious intellect gradually becomes spirit taught and eventually spirit led. This evolution of the human mind from matter association to spirit union results in the transmutation of the potentially spirit phases of the mortal mind into the morontia realities of the immortal soul. Mortal mind subservient to matter is destined to become increasingly material and consequently to suffer eventual personality extinction; mind yielded to spirit is destined to become increasingly spiritual and ultimately to achieve oneness with the surviving and guiding divine spirit and in this way to attain survival and eternity of personality existence.Mind, the gateway to the spiritual nature.I look at the physical body as more of a real Big Bang than science describes how they think the universe began.
its a real begining starting with the stuff of the earth. It’s what we need to be able to survive on Urantia.
As time goes on spiritual influences and forces become part of it somehow and that is amazing.
it can become self aware and make choices.
it can create an immortal self that retains its identity.
The God that made it all happen uses us to find out what it’s all about out here. How cool is that?
I think it’s fascinating that mind is what creates bodies out of matter.
42:12.9 Mind is always creative. The mind endowment of an individual animal, mortal, morontian, spirit ascender, or finality attainer is always competent to produce a suitable and serviceable body for the living creature identity. But the presence phenomenon of a personality or the pattern of an identity, as such, is not a manifestation of energy, either physical, mindal, or spiritual. The personality form is the pattern aspect of a living being; it connotes the arrangementof energies, and this, plus life and motion, is the mechanism of creature existence.
42:12.11 The liaison of the cosmic mind and the ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits evolve a suitable physical tabernacle for the evolving human being.
Just for clarification, the human body does not become self aware or make choices. That’s the role of the personality and personality requires mind also. The personality arrives after mind ministry provides the body, and it is a gift from God. Mind is a prerequisite for both body and personality. I think a mindless body is the same as a dead body, even though modern medicine can keep body chemistry going to make it appear alive.
5:6.6 Capacity for divine personality is inherent in the prepersonal Adjuster; capacity for human personality is potential in the cosmic-mind endowment of the human being. But the experiential personality of mortal man is not observable as an active and functional reality until after the material life vehicle of the mortal creature has been touched by the liberating divinity of the Universal Father, being thus launched upon the seas of experience as a self-conscious and a (relatively) self-determinative and self-creative personality. The material self is truly and unqualifiedly personal.
When I was young, I once had a Sunday school teacher who liked to refer to our body as a ‘space vehicle’. I still like to think of my body that way. It is a material housing for my spiritual identity to use to walk around in and have experiences in a material world. Some of us have a Maserati and some have a Ford Pinto, haha. It was actually a great way for me to realize that *I* am not my physical body and, as a teenager, to help reduce the amount of fixation on physical appearance since our ‘vehicle’ is not really who we are but something we use.
I appreciate the clarification
but all of this could not happen without the physical body. isnt the human intellect involved at all with making the decision to do Gods will?
our mind and the cosmic mind must have some interaction. Personality is the coordinator, no?
is all that our bodies good for is simply surviving, working, eating, drinking, etc?
is all that our bodies good for is simply surviving, working, eating, drinking, etc?
Some people might think so. I prefer to think of my body as the natal housing or habitat of my soul. It’s a temporary organismal house, so to speak. Homes need to be maintained, stabilized and balanced ( exercised, fed, watered and more).
110:6:4 […] It is to the mind of perfect poise, housed in a body of clean habits, stabilized neural energies, and balanced chemical function — when the physical, mental, and spiritual powers are in triune harmony of development . . . .
Over time the process of repair is superseded by its disintegration and the inevitable end of it occurs, unless something traumatic happens to it prior to a natural end. Adam lived here 530 years. (76:5:5)
- Gene wrote: isnt the human intellect involved at all with making the decision to do Gods will? our mind and the cosmic mind must have some interaction. Personality is the coordinator, no?
Free will is a property of personality. It is not a property of mind. Mind is the arena in which free-will choices are made, then the body carries out the decision by actually doing something, turning potential into actual. Mind is where potentials are found, or discovered. But will, or volition, belongs solely to the personality. Can a personality exercise free will without mind to think through the options of choice? No. But the power of decision making lies only with the personality. That is why they call experiential living power-personality synthesis. It’s using the power of the personality to evolve the Supreme, and that power is volition.
Personality is the unifier of all elements of reality. Mind is one element, matter and spirit are the others. All three levels of reality are unified by the personality. Personality is the overlying pattern. Volition of the personality organizes its associated reality according to its pattern which has its origin in Paradise. The personality has spirit helpers who assist in the process of discovering, recognizing, interpreting and choosing the best way to unify according to the divine pattern, which is individualized for each one of us. We are each unique in pattern, different from one another in how we unify ourselves, but we all have the same identical destiny . . . the Universal Father. Our unique experience with unifying our personality is essential to the evolution of the Supreme. Each personality is vital.
The human intellect is an individualized circuit of the local universe variant of the cosmic mind which is distributed to our superuniverse by Master Spirit number seven. Remember, mind is impersonal. Mind is a ministry but it is not personal. The adjutants are spirit mind-circuits, not persons. Mind is just a data processing center until it is made personal by the presence of the Holy Spirit. When we enter the seventh psychic circle, we become bona fide human beings, meaning full functioning of personality in the eyes of the universe. The budding free will of the personality becomes spirit driven and that is when power-personality synthesis begins. Children, prior to the seventh psychic, or cosmic circle, are still attached to their parents because their free will does not contribute to the evolution of the Supreme. Their will is only partial because it is functioning on the impersonal animal level of adjutant mind ministry, which does not resonate in the Supreme.
[Dang, I just covered a lot of stuff without a single quote. If anyone needs a quote, let me know.]
Gene wrote: is all that our bodies good for is simply surviving, working, eating, drinking, etc?Gene, I don’t get your question. Are you questioning the purpose for the creation of physical matter? If so, then you’re questioning the purpose of the Isle of Paradise too, right? You would also have to ask why did he create the planets, the solar systems and galaxies. Why did God even bother with the seven superuniverses at all after creating the central universe, which is perfect? Why wasn’t he satisfied with that? Is that what you’re asking? Listen, almost all personalities have forms, they have some kind of body, either physical, morontial or spiritual. Are you asking why God decided to give most personalities recognizable forms?
42:12.10 Even spirit beings have form, and these spirit forms (patterns) are real. Even the highest type of spirit personalities have forms — personality presences in every sense analogous to Urantia mortal bodies. Nearly all beings encountered in the seven superuniverses are possessed of forms. But there are a few exceptions to this general rule: Thought Adjusters appear to be without form until after fusion with the surviving souls of their mortal associates. Solitary Messengers, Inspired Trinity Spirits, Personal Aids of the Infinite Spirit, Gravity Messengers, Transcendental Recorders, and certain others are also without discoverable form. But these are typical of the exceptional few; the great majority have bona fide personality forms, forms which are individually characteristic, and which are recognizable and personally distinguishable. The adjutants minister to mortal intellect and that should mean that our brains can precieve truth beauty and goodness?
our brains do give self-consciousness to the soul which does retain the characteristics of the decisions of the adjutant mind?
Paper 112:6.8 says after awakening on morontia world that memory of original selfhood is essential to complete self consciousness of personality expansion and continuity.
our character patterns based on adjutant inspired decisions remain part of the soul??
no, my mind is too small to question the purpose of creation, but I’ll ask him when I see him?
But none of this could happen without the physical body.
Really like Keryn’s “vehicle” and Mara’s “soul habitat”….spirit transports through our time and space adventures.
Gene – it would help I think to remember that the brain is not mind and while the brain is capable of retaining, and collating data, it is really the mind that perceives truth, beauty, and goodness and can acquire wisdom by experience and unifies perceptions of reality and builds character…and not the electro/chemical brain.
I wonder how far into morontial development we will still have a “brain”? When does mind operate without need for the gray matter? I think memory of this life is something regained or reacquired on the Mansion Worlds?
Keryn asked about mechanics and mechanisms on another thread….will we have circulatory and nerve and muscle and bone of a sort? And as we become increasingly spiritized in our many incarnations of body form, do all of these (brain, digestion, blood, muscle, etc.) mechanisms fade or suddenly cease to have any form or function?
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
- Gene wrote: The adjutants minister to mortal intellect and that should mean that our brains can precieve truth beauty and goodness?Truth, beauty and goodness are soul level perceptions.180:5.3 Intelligence grows out of a material existence which is illuminated by the presence of the cosmic mind. Wisdom comprises the consciousness of knowledge elevated to new levels of meaning and activated by the presence of the universe endowment of the adjutant of wisdom. Truth is a spiritual reality value experienced only by spirit-endowed beings who function upon supermaterial levels of universe consciousness, and who, after the realization of truth, permit its spirit of activation to live and reign within their souls.The brain itself cannot perceive truth, beauty and goodness. The brain can perceive physical senses and process that information electrochemically. Mind is a ministry that has nothing directly to do with the electrochemical reactions of the physical sensory perception neural network. That electrochemical network is merely the physical fuel which keeps the engine of thought going, but it does not drive the engine. The adjutants drive the engine. Adjutant mind ministry provides the directional mechanism, it urges electrochemical data collected by the brain toward progressively useful growth. It is not a conscious phenomenon. Consciousness, particularly of the self, requires the gift of personality.The growing brain is evidence of a connection to adjutant mind ministry, a connection which urges that growth. Once the electromechanical brain grows to the point where it can be influenced by the adjutants of worship and wisdom, the phenomenon of discretional self-consciousness appears. Self-consciousness comes with other-than-self-consciousness, the two are an inseparable. (Think of the Trinity) Making a universe sanctioned choice between self and other-than-self is evidence that the seven adjutants are all functioning and in alignment, which then brings the Holy Spirit and spirit birth of the soul. Along with her, we are lucky to also get the Spirit of Truth and the Adjuster. Truth beauty and goodness can only be perceived by individuals indwelt by these spirit influences. Truth, beauty and goodness are supermaterial perceptions only perceived on supermaterial levels. The soul is supermaterial. The brain is material.Gene wrote: our brains do give self-consciousness to the soul which does retain the characteristics of the decisions of the adjutant mind?
Self-consciousness is a feature of personality utilizing mind ministry. Again, the brain only provides the fuel to run the engine. Full consciousness requires a brain firing on all cylinders, but consciousness is not part of the brain, it is the personality unifying its parts. The brain cannot give consciousness to the soul. The soul runs on an entirely different kind of fuel that the brain cannot provide. The energy that keeps the soul engine running is morontial (supermaterial). The soul has its own consciousness which is determined by its own growth. Once the personality identifies with soul level consciousness, it becomes the preferred source for decision making. Decision making from the soul level of consciousness has soul power.
Gene wrote: Paper 112:6.8 says after awakening on morontia world that memory of original selfhood is essential to complete self consciousness of personality expansion and continuity.Yes. The Adjuster is required to retrieve spiritually significant memories which help complete the full return of self-consciousness. But self-consciousness itself is a feature of personality. The return of the personality brings self-consciousness, and along with Adjuster sponsored retained memories, the package is complete. Remember that the Adjuster threads spirit patterns of character on a cosmic loom. But that cosmic loom is part of the soul, not the material mind. The soul is a different mind system. The soul is superadjutant, meaning morontial. The material mind carries the morontia fabric of the soul, but it is not part of the soul, it merely provides temporary support for it until after death when a new system is provided.111:2.2 The material mind of mortal man is the cosmic loom that carries the morontia fabrics on which the indwelling Thought Adjuster threads the spirit patterns of a universe character of enduring values and divine meanings — a surviving soul of ultimate destiny and unending career, a potential finaliter.Gene wrote: our character patterns based on adjutant inspired decisions remain part of the soul??Character patterns that become part of the soul are Adjuster inspired, not adjutant inspired. Not that the adjutants don’t play a part, they do, particularly adjutants six and seven, the gateway to the soul. The material mind discovers an idea, shoots it up the escalator to the soul where it can get spiritualized and recognized as an ideal, then interpreted in a way that can be worked out in real life by the Spirit of Truth, then down the escalator to the material mind which does what it can to carry it out. Then, the conversion of a spiritual potential into an experiential actual, creates a more virtuous character, which is copied and saved by the Adjuster in the soul. Every time you do this, the soul grows until you start to become conscious of this new righteous character that you have been quietly growing. Deciding to go all the way with this new character once you recognize it, working to make it better and better, is part of transferring dominance.
Gene wrote: But none of this could happen without the physical body.How else are you going to make potentials actual? You need a form to work with. We are physical beings, therefore a physical form is necessary. Midwayers are morontial, they have morontial forms they use to make potentials actual. Even as spirit beings we get spirit forms to carry out our service to the universe. How else would you recommend synthesizing the existential and experiential? I can only think of fantasy sci-fi ways of doing that that are not connected to reality. I suppose it’s possible. Don’t know.
And as we become increasingly spiritized in our many incarnations of body form, do all of these (brain, digestion, blood, muscle, etc.) mechanisms fade or suddenly cease to have any form or function?
Interesting question. I do know that we eat food and completely digest it on the mansion worlds (no excrement! yay!). So, I think that would mean that organs have the same general purpose but differ in quality of function. I don’t think the brain will be electrochemical though because we are told that the Adjusters have a lot of trouble communicating with a mind utilizing that kind of fuel source. I imagine some kind of morontia energy utilizing organ for data collection and processing, but one using a higher octane fuel source, better for Adjuster communion. Just a guess. It could be pure fiction, I don’t know.
47:4.6 Though you have morontia bodies, you continue, through all seven of these worlds, to eat, drink, and rest. You partake of the morontia order of food, a kingdom of living energy unknown on the material worlds. Both food and water are fully utilized in the morontia body; there is no residual waste. Pause to consider: Mansonia number one is a very material sphere, presenting the early beginnings of the morontia regime. You are still a near human and not far removed from the limited viewpoints of mortal life, but each world discloses definite progress. From sphere to sphere you grow less material, more intellectual, and slightly more spiritual. The spiritual progress is greatest on the last three of these seven progressive worlds.Dang
so many years spent as a wastewater treatment plant operator making dirty water clean
all wasted
pun intended
- Gene wrote: . . . all wasted
Wait, I spend an hour writing post #22258 and that’s all you have to say? Yeah, dang! I’m starting to feel like Andre. Sigh. I give up.
- Gene wrote: . . . all wasted
Wait, I spend an hour writing post #22258 and that’s all you have to say? Yeah, dang! I’m starting to feel like Andre. Sigh. I give up.
im not finished
Well 22258 is very educational information that helps me organize my thinking about all this
thank you
i am still taken to paper 112:6
just to state a couple:
in 6.2 and 6.3 they mention our morontia form and its appearance being responsive to our personality and they mention that to some degree our material bodies are as well – interesting connection there.
6.4 they state out mortal intellect has perished but the meanings and values of the mortal mind have not perished. I believe the point was made that this is because of the adjuster involvement.
6.5 talks about our creature volition that can’t exist without mind but exists without material intellect. And that the ascending personality is guided by character patterns from our human life. Covered in 22258 I believe
in 6.7 mortal mind is self consciously independent of adjuster presence. Morontia soul does not retain self consciousness without adjuster when deprived of material mind mechanism.
6.9 qualitative and quantative actions/motivations of material intellect reflected in surviving soul. In the choosing of truth beauty and goodness mortal mind enters pre morontia career.
- Gene wrote: The adjutants minister to mortal intellect and that should mean that our brains can precieve truth beauty and goodness?Truth, beauty and goodness are soul level perceptions.180:5.3 Intelligence grows out of a material existence which is illuminated by the presence of the cosmic mind. Wisdom comprises the consciousness of knowledge elevated to new levels of meaning and activated by the presence of the universe endowment of the adjutant of wisdom. Truth is a spiritual reality value experienced only by spirit-endowed beings who function upon supermaterial levels of universe consciousness, and who, after the realization of truth, permit its spirit of activation to live and reign within their souls.The brain itself cannot perceive truth, beauty and goodness. The brain can perceive physical senses and process that information electrochemically. Mind is a ministry that has nothing directly to do with the electrochemical reactions of the physical sensory perception neural network. That electrochemical network is merely the physical fuel which keeps the engine of thought going, but it does not drive the engine. The adjutants drive the engine. Adjutant mind ministry provides the directional mechanism, it urges electrochemical data collected by the brain toward progressively useful growth. It is not a conscious phenomenon. Consciousness, particularly of the self, requires the gift of personality.The growing brain is evidence of a connection to adjutant mind ministry, a connection which urges that growth. Once the electromechanical brain grows to the point where it can be influenced by the adjutants of worship and wisdom, the phenomenon of discretional self-consciousness appears. Self-consciousness comes with other-than-self-consciousness, the two are an inseparable. (Think of the Trinity) Making a universe sanctioned choice between self and other-than-self is evidence that the seven adjutants are all functioning and in alignment, which then brings the Holy Spirit and spirit birth of the soul. Along with her, we are lucky to also get the Spirit of Truth and the Adjuster. Truth beauty and goodness can only be perceived by individuals indwelt by these spirit influences. Truth, beauty and goodness are supermaterial perceptions only perceived on supermaterial levels. The soul is supermaterial. The brain is material.Gene wrote: our brains do give self-consciousness to the soul which does retain the characteristics of the decisions of the adjutant mind?
Self-consciousness is a feature of personality utilizing mind ministry. Again, the brain only provides the fuel to run the engine. Full consciousness requires a brain firing on all cylinders, but consciousness is not part of the brain, it is the personality unifying its parts. The brain cannot give consciousness to the soul. The soul runs on an entirely different kind of fuel that the brain cannot provide. The energy that keeps the soul engine running is morontial (supermaterial). The soul has its own consciousness which is determined by its own growth. Once the personality identifies with soul level consciousness, it becomes the preferred source for decision making. Decision making from the soul level of consciousness has soul power.
Gene wrote: Paper 112:6.8 says after awakening on morontia world that memory of original selfhood is essential to complete self consciousness of personality expansion and continuity.Yes. The Adjuster is required to retrieve spiritually significant memories which help complete the full return of self-consciousness. But self-consciousness itself is a feature of personality. The return of the personality brings self-consciousness, and along with Adjuster sponsored retained memories, the package is complete. Remember that the Adjuster threads spirit patterns of character on a cosmic loom. But that cosmic loom is part of the soul, not the material mind. The soul is a different mind system. The soul is superadjutant, meaning morontial. The material mind carries the morontia fabric of the soul, but it is not part of the soul, it merely provides temporary support for it until after death when a new system is provided.111:2.2 The material mind of mortal man is the cosmic loom that carries the morontia fabrics on which the indwelling Thought Adjuster threads the spirit patterns of a universe character of enduring values and divine meanings — a surviving soul of ultimate destiny and unending career, a potential finaliter.Gene wrote: our character patterns based on adjutant inspired decisions remain part of the soul??Character patterns that become part of the soul are Adjuster inspired, not adjutant inspired. Not that the adjutants don’t play a part, they do, particularly adjutants six and seven, the gateway to the soul. The material mind discovers an idea, shoots it up the escalator to the soul where it can get spiritualized and recognized as an ideal, then interpreted in a way that can be worked out in real life by the Spirit of Truth, then down the escalator to the material mind which does what it can to carry it out. Then, the conversion of a spiritual potential into an experiential actual, creates a more virtuous character, which is copied and saved by the Adjuster in the soul. Every time you do this, the soul grows until you start to become conscious of this new righteous character that you have been quietly growing. Deciding to go all the way with this new character once you recognize it, working to make it better and better, is part of transferring dominance.
Gene wrote: But none of this could happen without the physical body.How else are you going to make potentials actual? You need a form to work with. We are physical beings, therefore a physical form is necessary. Midwayers are morontial, they have morontial forms they use to make potentials actual. Even as spirit beings we get spirit forms to carry out our service to the universe. How else would you recommend synthesizing the existential and experiential? I can only think of fantasy sci-fi ways of doing that that are not connected to reality. I suppose it’s possible. Don’t know.
I understand what “Gene” has presented regarding the posting listed above, in that all comes from the UB’s text, and the descriptive characters come from the UB presentation, but how does all this relate to our reality as it applies to life today?I do like the statement, above underlined, where it might be easier to relate these things in the UB to what is considered as sci-fi fantasy, as how it might compare to UB reality? For instance, can we relate our reality to the Matrix movie trilogy, or the Avatar movie, to name just a few?The Matrix movies seem to parallel much that is presented in the UB, although there are certain aspects which are pure entertainment but the underlying structure is similar? In the survival aspect of the UB, can it be compared to choosing the Red or Blue pill? And then there is the comparison to “mind” as it functions between world? Not to mention the introduction of “the source”, “architect” etc.?Are there any factors which can be compared as used as a visual aid? How about a very unique experience?
the forum deciding what questions to ask the revealators/or sleeping subject. Was it their personalities / cosmic mind reaching out for truths yet unknown? Or could it have been the scientific nature , the mortal mind looking for facts or similar clarifications?
Or this: If we build a spacecraft is it our mortal minds at work – there would be some engineers wanting to validate the mechanistic Big Bang nature of the universe but still others that sincerely desire truth, wanting to understand real origin with no bias that could reveal a personal touch to origins.
mortal and cosmic minds that could function together but tend not to for ego reasons
Can’t relate to si fi much
i got through about the first 15 min of the matrix, I didn’t get it. Sat through avatar because of grandkids, the visuals were stunning but story line could not hold my interest-can’t recall what it was about.
How about time bandits? I loved that one. It seemed to have a spoof on our beliefs at least.
the forum deciding what questions to ask the revealators/or sleeping subject. Was it their personalities / cosmic mind reaching out for truths yet unknown? Or could it have been the scientific nature , the mortal mind looking for facts or similar clarifications?
Gene, when you mention above “sleeping subjects” I have always imagined them to parallel the story line as was presented in the TV Series “Crusade – After Babylon5” in that the overall plot has them roaming the universe for a cure of an affliction that has infiltrated many worlds, and for some world’s there population was put into a cryostasis sleep until a cure for the infliction could be found. Although this same scenario, when associated with Matrix movies, would seem to prompt one’s imagination, to apply those fictional presentations to some of the content of the UB. The most interpretive plot which I have found that parallels many of the narration of the UB is found in Gene Rodenberry’s presentation of “Earth Final Conflict” where it starts off, in the first few episodes, with aliens coming to Earth, who have been presented as the Violet Race in the UB, or as might also be associated to Caligastia’s coming to Urantia with his staff. Where in the aforementioned Series, which is being represented again in Europe, do to much interest there, as Gene’s interpretation of some parts of the UB, which would indicate that he may have used it for much of his writings and even the Star Trek Series which seems to parallel his Andromeda TV Series? So, how is it that the imagination can play such an important part as represented to Cosmic Mind.
