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Personality survival

43 posts · 8 participants · started Feb 18, 2015, 7:38 PM

MaraParticipant
Feb 24, 2015, 4:47 PM

Bonita wrote: . . . personality survives as part of the Supreme (2:3.4)

Additionally, the personality of the nonascender returns to the Supreme, as a drop of water returns to the sea.

117:4:4 The human personality can truly destroy individuality of creaturehood, and though all that was worth while in the life of such a cosmic suicide will persist, these qualities will not persist as an individual creature. The Supreme will again find expression in the creatures of the universes but never again as that particular person; the unique personality of a nonascender returns to the Supreme as a drop of water returns to the sea.
BonitaParticipant
Feb 24, 2015, 8:00 PM

Mara wrote: Are you sure these are inherited? I was thinking more along the lines of the failure of the occurrence of the first moral choice of the human child, i.e. such a choice is not made, and therefore the seventh adjutant mind spirit is not activated, and therefore a Thought Adjuster is not dispatched from Divinington.

Yeah, I’m sure. A child that cannot make a moral choice in order to receive an Adjuster is not functioning on the human level, he has failed to humanize.

55:4.3 On the evolutionary worlds a being must humanize to receive a Thought Adjuster.

I don’t think there are many normal-minded children on this world who don’t make a moral decision and receive an Adjuster. However, there are a variety of types of mental handicaps that can result in dysmoral or amoral behavior, and most of them are hereditary. In one study of 240 children with ADHD, they discovered that those children with the COMT gene showed significantly greater antisocial behaviors than those without it. Granted, there are some acquired conditions caused by environmental accidents or non-hereditary illnesses which destroy the mind, but that’s a different group of people with a different set of circumstances.

One’s genetic make up determines the basic character, then environment affects it and a spirit-dominated personality transforms it. Even Jesus inherited certain character traits from each of his parents.

122:5.3 Jesus derived much of his unusual gentleness and marvelous sympathetic understanding of human nature from his father; he inherited his gift as a great teacher and his tremendous capacity for righteous indignation from his mother. In emotional reactions to his adult-life environment, Jesus was at one time like his father, meditative and worshipful, sometimes characterized by apparent sadness; but more often he drove forward in the manner of his mother’s optimistic and determined disposition. All in all, Mary’s temperament tended to dominate the career of the divine Son as he grew up and swung into the momentous strides of his adult life. In some particulars Jesus was a blending of his parents’ traits; in other respects he exhibited the traits of one in contrast with those of the other.
MaraParticipant
Feb 24, 2015, 10:04 PM
Oh yeah! Jesus did inherit traits from his parents! I forgot.
paul_pdxParticipant
Oct 13, 2016, 9:08 PM
Yes, there’s a few places where its says that those aspects of the personality which have ‘survival value’ are carried on.

I tend to think that most folks with even the faintest flicker of faith will go on to the mansion worlds.
I’m sure its “possible” for an Earth-person to so whole-heartedly embrace the relative ‘un-reality’ of evil that we get ‘erased’
but it also says this usually only happens at the end of a planetary dispensation.

In general, I read this and other passages to mean:

“You gotta work pretty hard at iniquity to be annihilated and most of us will continue to ascend”

That part in bold where it says “..becomes as though he had not been”

I take this literally, to mean a complete erasure from past, present and future.
So it would seem that this sentence was not give to say Adolf Hitler—because we still know about him. (I’m assuming that when god erases you, its all traces)
Do others interpret this differently?

-paul

QUOTES:

2:3.2 …The greatest punishment (in reality an inevitable consequence) for wrongdoing and deliberate rebellion against the government of God is loss of existence as an individual subject of that government. The final result of wholehearted sin is annihilation. In the last analysis, such sin-identified individuals have destroyed themselves by becoming wholly unreal through their embrace of iniquity.

^2:3.4 When this sentence is finally confirmed, the sin-identified being instantly becomes as though he had not been
BonitaParticipant
Oct 13, 2016, 10:21 PM

Mrs_Columbo wrote:

I take this literally, to mean a complete erasure from past, present and future. So it would seem that this sentence was not give to say Adolf Hitler—because we still know about him. (I’m assuming that when god erases you, its all traces) Do others interpret this differently?

Yup! I certainly do. Why would celestials want to mess with history? Let’s say, just for the sake of argument, that Hitler was annihilated and is now as though he never was. If all record of his existence was mysteriously erased from history, how would we explain a half century of the history of this planet. Things that happened cannot be erased, so how would they be explained? Did they just magically happen, or will all of Hitler’s actions also cease to exist? And would all the repercussions of Hitler’s actions also cease to exist? That can’t happen. Removing a personality, who was an integral part of what happened, would make history total nonsense. In sci-fi language, it would rip open the time-space continuum. It would create more chaos and confusion. The universe is not about chaos and confusion, and certainly things that have happened cannot be magically removed. Think about it.

What the quote is referring to is that all potentials associated with that individual identity are no longer capable of being expressed. It does not mean that all the actualities expressed by that individual are erased with him/her. No, we would all remember the iniquitous one and learn from the experience.
BradlyParticipant
Oct 14, 2016, 4:18 PM
Think I’ll chime in on this one too…..the second half of the quote says the “identity” of the person ceases to exist. It does not say their experience or personality ceases….or their progeny or other temporal/ripple effects of their life. The consequences of the choices of such a person will continue until time itself and the universal response mechanism of love correct such effects in time and space. When a stone is dropped into the water, the waves so caused ripple and radiate outward despite the disappearance of the stone. Personality returns to its source. All choices/experiences of survival value have gone to the Supreme and are preserved by the TAs as experienced by them. I think that if and when Lucifer meets such an end, that he will still be known and the effects by his life will still take time to be absorbed by time. More importantly, the love response of our universe rulers and all others affected by his iniquity, and within the mercy time lag, is part of the forever-effects and experiences that result – agondontors come forth from such causes as an example of a positive response/effect from a negative cause/source of iniquity.

The effects by the cause of iniquity which are not true, beautiful, and good fade with time, while those responses to evil, sin, and iniquity which are true, beautiful, and good only become more magnified and amplified over time.

I certainly agree with Paul’s thinking that the “flicker” quote indicates the difficulty of self annihilation/erasure by our choices in this brief life and on this world….you cannot reject that reality of which you know nothing or do not believe in – that is not a conscious free will rejection or choice IMO.

…..When the continued embrace of sin by the associated mind culminates in complete self-identification with iniquity, then upon the cessation of life, upon cosmic dissolution, such an isolated personality is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the evolving experience of the Supreme Being. Never again does it appear as a personality; its identity becomes as though it had never been. In the case of an Adjuster-indwelt personality, the experiential spirit values survive in the reality of the continuing Adjuster.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Oct 14, 2016, 7:42 PM

Bradly wrote: It does not say their experience or personality ceases….or their progeny or other temporal/ripple effects of their life.

Excellent point Bradly! I forgot about progeny. We know for a fact that only the perp has to pay for his/her sins. If progeny disappear too, then they’re paying the ultimate price for something they didn’t do. How cruel and unjust. Thankfully, the universe is compassionate and just, so that’s not gonna happen.

I’m pretty sure that many people do not understand the difference between personality and identity. Personality cannot be destroyed. Personality is a part of Divinity. Personality cannot be deprived of existence but it can have all its powers of choice removed. Stripped down, personality is pattern without power. It can do nothing. And without mind to make it conscious, it is nothing but unused potential. Personality without power gets absorbed into the experience of the Supreme. It’s just an isolated and empty shell, never to be animated again. The choice to separate itself from the eternal source of eternal identity, the Adjuster, is final. In the case of Lucifer, who has no Adjuster, his choice to fully separate himself from his father, Michael of Nebadon, and if it be final, would deny him of ongoing identity in the universe.

Bradly wrote: I think that if and when Lucifer meets such an end, that he will still be known and the effects by his life will still take time to be absorbed by time.

When first brought this up I remember thinking how totally bizarre it all is to believe that annihilation removes all traces of the individual’s existence not only now and the future, but in the past as well. Can you imagine waking up the morning after Lucifer’s annihilation and going to your UB to find all mention of him gone? Whole papers would have to disappear in every UB ever printed. Even if your memory was wiped so that you didn’t know he existed, nor remember reading about him in the book, you’d have to be suspicious about something since the book would read very oddly. Since many of the rebels were not annihilated, the rebellion story would have to be told. How would the rebellion be described in TUB under such circumstances? What would they call the Lucifer Manifesto? Would they just write: “Bad things happened at this time and many personalities were affected but we cannot tell you much about it because there are enormous holes in the record concerning the events of those days.” You might go to the library and open reference books to find no mention of Lucifer there either. Would the Bible need to be altered too? Don’t know. It’s just ludicrous to think that the universe is like a Star Trek adventure where Dr. Crusher just erases your memory if you’ve come across something you’re not supposed to know. Give me a break. Do you think God the Father will forget about Lucifer and what he did, do you think his memory will be wiped too? Balderdash and poppycock on that load of tommyrot!
BradlyParticipant
Oct 14, 2016, 9:18 PM
All good points. I am reminded of the positive effects that were delivered by the torture and murder of our Creator/Master Son and also the 1000 times more positive benefits than negative results already realized in Nebadon by the iniquities of Lucifer and his fellow rebel leaders. The mercy of Father and the Faith of the Son are demonstrated best sometimes only by the contrasts made apparent by evil and sin. How are we to know truth without falsehood as its counterpoint and contradiction? While such evil and sin are never the will of God, such results of creature free will do teach all who suffer the consequences and all who witness them as well.

Hate to beat an old drum….but what happens, whether good or bad, is always an opportunity for a response to what happens. We are to learn to respond at every intersection of relationship, situation, and circumstance in positive and proactive ways whereby we insert love and experience with faith-courage and conviction and thereby we give light, hope, succor, and sustenance to another, to one another, to the Supreme, and to our own soul and circle progress. It is not enough to avoid personal evil and sinful transgressions – we are taught and commanded by the Master to get in there, with love and wisdom, and turn dark causes into the effects of light and life and truth, beauty, and goodness. We are to learn the heavenly and divine art of lemonade making!!!

In this way….and only in this way….may we learn to embrace the thrill of uncertainty as we approach every intersection of choice and decision with full confidence in this friendly universe and in the way and will of God who allows the inherent errors of free will for the experience of correction, wisdom, and progress both personally and throughout time and space collectively as well.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
paul_pdxParticipant
Oct 14, 2016, 10:10 PM
Bonita wrote:

Mrs_Columbo wrote:

I take this literally, to mean a complete erasure from past, present and future. So it would seem that this sentence was not give to say Adolf Hitler—because we still know about him. (I’m assuming that when god erases you, its all traces) Do others interpret this differently?

Yup! I certainly do. Why would celestials want to mess with history? Let’s say, just for the sake of argument, that Hitler was annihilated and is now as though he never was. If all record of his existence was mysteriously erased from history, how would we explain a half century of the history of this planet. Things that happened cannot be erased, so how would they be explained?

Me:

Good answer and I would agree that erasing someone’s progeny seems unjust.

Given our current understanding of physics and things like Hugh Everett’s ‘many worlds’ theory, I’m not convinced that the ‘past’ or ‘history’ is as immutable as you’re trying to say (especially for these celestial folks who are not confined to the evolutionary worlds of time and space) so, for the sake of argument, yes, history would be different if Hitler truly “became as though he had never been”

but yes, I can accept that the cosmic annihilation is from the present and future, and not the past.

I’m less convinced by the ‘softening’ of the quote with ‘identity’ (or ‘personality’ either, which it says gets ‘reabsorbed’)

I’m glad I’m not the only one who took that phrase as presented, but I will concede that it does not go on to explicitly say that the past will change. -paul

More from Paper 2:

2:3.4 [continued] As for the personality of the iniquitous one, it is deprived of a continuing life vehicle by the creature’s failure to make those choices and final decisions which would have assured eternal life. When the continued embrace of sin by the associated mind culminates in complete self-identification with iniquity, then upon the cessation of life, upon cosmic dissolution, such an isolated personality is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the evolving experience of the Supreme Being. Never again does it appear as a personality; its identity becomes as though it had never been. In the case of an Adjuster-indwelt personality, the experiential spirit values survive in the reality of the continuing Adjuster.
BonitaParticipant
Oct 15, 2016, 10:22 AM
Just to be complete, I think it’s important to recognize that identity and personality are not the same thing. For instance, when we die our identity has two parts, passive identity survives in the soul under the care of the guardian angel, and active identity survives with the Adjuster. The personality is elsewhere, and no one seems to know exactly where it is during the time from death to resurrection on the mansion worlds. We do know that the archangels have something to do with it, but details are lacking.

112:5.15 During the transit of surviving mortals from the world of origin to the mansion worlds, whether they experience personality reassembly on the third period or ascend at the time of a group resurrection, the record of personality constitution is faithfully preserved by the archangels on their worlds of special activities. These beings are not the custodians of personality (as the guardian seraphim are of the soul), but it is nonetheless true that every identifiable factor of personality is effectually safeguarded in the custody of these dependable trustees of mortal survival. As to the exact whereabouts of mortal personality during the time intervening between death and survival, we do not know.

47.3.3 The mortal-mind transcripts and the active creature-memory patterns as transformed from the material levels to the spiritual are the individual possession of the detached Thought Adjusters; these spiritized factors of mind, memory, and creature personality are forever a part of such Adjusters. The creature mind-matrix and the passive potentials of identity are present in the morontia soul intrusted to the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardians. And it is the reuniting of the morontia-soul trust of the seraphim and the spirit-mind trust of the Adjuster that reassembles creature personality and constitutes resurrection of a sleeping survivor.

49:6.11 The arrival of an Adjuster constitutes identity in the eyes of the universe, and all indwelt beings are on the roll calls of justice.

If a person fails to survive, that means there’s no passive identity in the soul for the Adjuster to activate. The Adjuster doesn’t show up at the time of resurrection which means, no resurrection. The personality goes to the Supreme, the Adjuster keeps the active values of identity for himself, and the soul, or lack of soul, is nothing. Poof.
BonitaParticipant
Oct 15, 2016, 10:43 AM

Bradly wrote: I am reminded of the positive effects that were delivered by the torture and murder of our Creator/Master Son

Incidentally Bradly, I read your posts over on truthbook concerning the purpose of the Master’s death. You are spot on, as usual. Too bad the obvious purpose of overcoming evil with good constantly gets overlooked by the churchification crowd. I give you credit for trying to explain these things.
BradlyParticipant
Oct 15, 2016, 9:51 PM
Thanks Bonita.

I find that theme so consistent in the Papers. We cannot control what happens. But we do always determine how we respond to whatever happens. God put us in control and total determination of one thing only, our responses at the intersections of choice. It is by our choice-responses that we progress through the circles and fuse and reach Paradise….all along that whole journey, we will continue to choose at every intersection of choice to express our faith and love.

Jesus lived such a life among us and Part IV so beautifully illustrates this life, responding over and over and over to all sorts of situations, circumstances, and relationships including the most difficult of situations and circumstances. Inspirational! And instructive.

= )

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Oct 15, 2016, 10:06 PM

Bradly wrote: It is by our choice-responses that we progress through the circles and fuse and reach Paradise….all along that whole journey, we will continue to choose at every intersection of choice to express our faith and love.

Exactly. And how is it that someone else can tell you what to do at those moments of choice, or accuse you of not making the right choices, or poor choices, or no choices, or whatever, when the sovereignty of choice is yours alone. It’s so unbelievable to me that someone would have the gall to meddle in other people’s circle work. It’s outrageous, really. Isn’t that what Lucifer did?

That being said, Jesus made all his own choices and it got him killed. The world sees that as a bad thing, but it was actually a really good thing. The best thing. It just goes to show you how backward and upside down the thinking on this world is. Sorry to say.
BradlyParticipant
Sep 8, 2020, 12:43 PM

Keryn wrote:

What is your understanding regarding personality survival and, in particular, the timing of such. This quote from TUB pretty much says it in a nutshell: Under the sub-heading of Adjuster Fusion in the Personality Survival paper 112.

(1238.1)112:7.6 On the evolutionary worlds, selfhood is material; it is a thing in the universe and as such is subject to the laws of material existence. It is a fact in time and is responsive to the vicissitudes thereof. Survival decisions must here be formulated. In the morontia state the self has become a new and more enduring universe reality, and its continuing growth is predicated on its increasing attunement to the mind and spirit circuits of the universes. Survival decisions are now being confirmed. When the self attains the spiritual level, it has become a secure value in the universe, and this new value is predicated upon the fact that survival decisions have been made, which fact has been witnessed by eternal fusion with the Thought Adjuster. And having achieved the status of a true universe value, the creature becomes liberated in potential for the seeking of the highest universe value — God.

This seems to say that the first step in personality survival is that a decision must be “formulated” while on the evolutionary world. Is that others’ understanding as well? I wonder what is meant by “formulated”?

What I am getting at here, is I am wondering about my loved ones who are devoted to their atheism and would very likely never acknowledge that a survival decision is incumbent upon them or that there is any Diety that would care one way or another. Are they doomed to lose all chances of personality survival if they do not change their beliefs before their physical death?

Is this what awaits people who die as athiest:

(1232.3)112:5.2 That which comes from the Father is like the Father eternal, and this is just as true of personality, which God gives by his own freewill choice, as it is of the divine Thought Adjuster, an actual fragment of God. Man’s personality is eternal but with regard to identity a conditioned eternal reality. Having appeared in response to the Father’s will, personality will attain Deity destiny, but man must choose whether or not he will be present at the attainment of such destiny. In default of such choice, personality attains experiential Deity directly, becoming a part of the Supreme Being. The cycle is foreordained, but man’s participation therein is optional, personal, and experiential.

If so, does this mean that my atheist loved ones will not experience the Mansion Worlds and will not be recognizable as an individual personality?

“Survival decisions must here be formulated.”

I’ve been thinking about this a great deal since being recently reminded of and directed to this conversation from 5 years ago.

Since then I have studied the mortal’s faith experience and evolutionary religious experience in far more detail and new meanings and perspective have been gained. None of which conflicts with the historical posts here.

I would point out that formulating survival decisions does not mean, to me, any specific and conscious decision TO survive.

The birth of soul requires the formulation of a survival decision I think. The decision has survival qualities. The faith experience and evolutionary religious experience are recognition of and responses to the Spirit within…the awareness of the I AM and the moral response by personality TO personality.

Such decisions formulated in mind ARE survival decisions.

We are cautioned and warned about judging the personal religious experience of others by our own, or their beliefs and realty constructs based on our own.

I think the atheists I know have rejected churches and their religious authority and the hypocrisy and fears about reality and their damnung and vengeful gods which represent the twisted creeds and fear based theologies they embrace. I also rejected the same folks and the same gods once upon a time…which only demonstrates sanity and reason and a truer perspective.

After all…Jesus taught us to do right for the sake of right…not from fear of punishment.

Every moral choice and expression of truth, beauty, and goodness is a survival decision I think.

Now…there are Circle Decisions prior to fusion which do require more specific and conscious and intentional decisons…but these are of a different nature and result from our evolutionary religious experience and soul growth and wisdom gained by faith. Different topic.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BradlyParticipant
Sep 8, 2020, 2:52 PM
Recall that the soul has its own self awareness and Spirit awareness and we must also apply the differences in unconscious, conscious, superconscious in our considerations to better understand the issues raised by Keryn’s inquiries. Conscious choices and motives grow soul but soul growth is unconscious and mostly a result of mortal experiences in the superconscious levels of mind. Differentiation between different levels of awareness is important.

Even more confusingly, to me anyway, is the fact that much soul growth and Circle Progress can achieved with very little knowledge or accuracy in our beliefs about reality. Indeed, even false beliefs and complete ignorance cannot prevent soul birth or soul growth or personality survival.

Simply amazing!! The mind’s connection to the Spirit ministries to mind and the Deity Gravity Circuits does not depend upon wisdom or knowledge or specific beliefs or accurate beliefs. The reality of the mortal to Deity connection is fully functional regardless of all such considerations!

5:2.5 (65.1) It is exceedingly difficult for the meagerly spiritualized, material mind of mortal man to experience marked consciousness of the spirit activities of such divine entities as the Paradise Adjusters. As the soul of joint mind and Adjuster creation becomes increasingly existent, there also evolves a new phase of soul consciousness which is capable of experiencing the presence, and of recognizing the spirit leadings and other supermaterial activities, of the Mystery Monitors.

5:2.6 (65.2) The entire experience of Adjuster communion is one involving moral status, mental motivation, and spiritual experience. The self-realization of such an achievement is mainly, though not exclusively, limited to the realms of soul consciousness, but the proofs are forthcoming and abundant in the manifestation of the fruits of the spirit in the lives of all such inner-spirit contactors.

5:5.13 (69.8) Eternal survival of personality is wholly dependent on the choosing of the mortal mind, whose decisions determine the survival potential of the immortal soul. When the mind believes God and the soul knows God, and when, with the fostering Adjuster, they all desire God, then is survival assured. Limitations of intellect, curtailment of education, deprivation of culture, impoverishment of social status, even inferiority of the human standards of morality resulting from the unfortunate lack of educational, cultural, and social advantages, cannot invalidate the presence of the divine spirit in such unfortunate and humanly handicapped but believing individuals. The indwelling of the Mystery Monitor constitutes the inception and insures the possibility of the potential of growth and survival of the immortal soul.

5:5.14 (70.1) The ability of mortal parents to procreate is not predicated on their educational, cultural, social, or economic status. The union of the parental factors under natural conditions is quite sufficient to initiate offspring. A human mind discerning right and wrong and possessing the capacity to worship God, in union with a divine Adjuster, is all that is required in that mortal to initiate and foster the production of his immortal soul of survival qualities if such a spirit-endowed individual seeks God and sincerely desires to become like him, honestly elects to do the will of the Father in heaven.

100:1.9 (1095.4) The unconscious nature of religious growth does not, however, signify that it is an activity functioning in the supposed subconscious realms of human intellect; rather does it signify creative activities in the superconscious levels of mortal mind. The experience of the realization of the reality of unconscious religious growth is the one positive proof of the functional existence of the superconsciousness.

100:6.1 (1100.3) Evolutionary religions and revelatory religions may differ markedly in method, but in motive there is great similarity. Religion is not a specific function of life; rather is it a mode of living. True religion is a wholehearted devotion to some reality which the religionist deems to be of supreme value to himself and for all mankind. And the outstanding characteristics of all religions are: unquestioning loyalty and wholehearted devotion to supreme values. This religious devotion to supreme values is shown in the relation of the supposedly irreligious mother to her child and in the fervent loyalty of nonreligionists to an espoused cause.

100:6.2 (1100.4) The accepted supreme value of the religionist may be base or even false, but it is nevertheless religious. A religion is genuine to just the extent that the value which is held to be supreme is truly a cosmic reality of genuine spiritual worth.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Mark KurtzParticipant
Sep 8, 2020, 4:11 PM
Brad, Keryn

This comment from 111:1.5 has always helped me to relax more about people and not worry:

“Mortal mind is a temporary intellect system loaned to human beings for use during a material lifetime, and as they use this mind, they are either accepting or rejecting the potential of eternal existence. Mind is about all you have of universe reality that is subject to your will, and the soul — the morontia self — will faithfully portray the harvest of the temporal decisions which the mortal self is making. Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious. And it is not so much what mind comprehends as what mind desires to comprehend that insures survival; it is not so much what mind is like as what mind is striving to be like that constitutes spirit identification. It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity.”

I do agree we should not judge others and the authors do say no human has ever been authorized to judge the soul of another person. Now, it does seem right (at least at the moment) to suggest talking about desires of the heart (soul if a person is interested in this term) regarding salvation, rather than doctrine, as y’all have said. The authors are trying to steer us to greater TACT with one another! Is this possible. They know our doctrinal authorities, creeds, doctrine and knowledge are limiting our relationships when we get dogmatic.

What does a person truly desire within oneself seems like a safe topical question between people who listen carefully.

We ascend at different rates and yes, some will lag behind a bit, but ultimately, the Gods would not want to lose even ONE soul!!! What a nice and merciful consideration!
BradlyParticipant
Sep 9, 2020, 4:41 PM
Indeed Mark…your text posted reminded me of still another!

39:4.13 (435.6) To the inhabited worlds the quickeners of morality portray mortal life as an unbroken chain of many links. Your short sojourn on Urantia, on this sphere of mortal infancy, is only a single link, the very first in the long chain that is to stretch across universes and through the eternal ages. It is not so much what you learn in this first life; it is the experience of living this life that is important. Even the work of this world, paramount though it is, is not nearly so important as the way in which you do this work. There is no material reward for righteous living, but there is profound satisfaction—consciousness of achievement—and this transcends any conceivable material reward.

39:4.14 (435.7) The keys of the kingdom of heaven are: sincerity, more sincerity, and more sincerity. All men have these keys. Men use them—advance in spirit status—by decisions, by more decisions, and by more decisions. The highest moral choice is the choice of the highest possible value, and always—in any sphere, in all of them—this is to choose to do the will of God. If man thus chooses, he is great, though he be the humblest citizen of Jerusem or even the least of mortals on Urantia.

Me here: It took me a long time and many times in the UB to learn that the perfecting of our motives and intentions and priorities in life are the true purpose OF this life. Wisdom will come. But experiential wisdom is an endless quest of perfecting. Perfecting our motive for living and our philosophy of living, both are something we can all accomplish with great progress in this brief life. Sincerity is simply a pure heart motivated by truth, beauty, and goodness…but not measured by knowledge or wisdom!!

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BradlyParticipant
Sep 11, 2020, 4:49 PM
Mark Kurtz wrote:

What does a person truly desire within oneself seems like a safe topical question between people who listen carefully.

We ascend at different rates and yes, some will lag behind a bit, but ultimately, the Gods would not want to lose even ONE soul!!! What a nice and merciful consideration!

A fascinating point to consider! What does the heart desire? The UB says, as I understand it, that eternal survival and life beyond material death are innate desires. And that happiness and contentment are also natural and inherent desires of the human heart! We desire to be loved. We feel good when we love and serve another in love for the other.

Based on my study of the UB I have come to the conclusion that LOVE is the ‘secret sauce’ of the universe which binds all mortals and celestials into the universal family. We all seek love. Love delivers happiness and fulfillment. It doesn’t matter how ignorant or stupid or blind or how false are our beliefs, still do we respond to love. Everyone is dissatisfied and disappointed and frustrated by the karmic outcomes of self love and self importance. But if we embrace and experience the love circuit whereby we receive Divine Love according to the giving of love to others, then do we experience happiness and contentment.

This is the secret to happiness. We may find pleasure without love but we will never find lasting happiness and contentment. Every heart desires these. The faith experience of feeling the I AM within and the Divine Assurance that comes by that awareness and Presence within is something we are born with. That awareness and connection can be lost, can fade, by the personal embrace of self importance and by a childhood filled with deprivation and suffering and the lack of paternal affection and support. But that is what is truly ‘unnatural’….and so unfortunate.

Experiential wisdom comes to each of us personally and progressively in different ways and sequence and time frames. But the desire of the heart? I think that comes early and universally to all mortal children…who are so eager to be loved and give love and learn and trust and share and have fun and giggle and smile! Children must learn differently to lose this connection to God within and to become lost in the darkness of doubts and fears and suffering.

I think all can find their way back to this Light Within for it always shines and always responds. Once soul is born I think the “flicker” may be faith or simply hope itself….hope for love and hope for happiness. So long as hope lives I think so does personality survive!!

Hope is proof of potential. Potential is never squandered or destroyed or prevented from its realization! A mind who can hold ideals and idealism…reflect a personal moral standard and hope for better outcomes and are the very foundation of personal religious experience! Once the fruit of happiness is known by the experience of truth, beauty, goodness, and love…then does the mind desire more and more of that experience and we begin to express the fruits of the Spirit which come to every mind so attached to the vine or the source of love and truth and beauty and goodness and happiness!!

107:6.2 (1182.4) The Adjuster is man’s eternity possibility; man is the Adjuster’s personality possibility. Your individual Adjusters work to spiritize you in the hope of eternalizing your temporal identity. The Adjusters are saturated with the beautiful and self-bestowing love of the Father of spirits. They truly and divinely love you; they are the prisoners of spirit hope confined within the minds of men. They long for the divinity attainment of your mortal minds that their loneliness may end, that they may be delivered with you from the limitations of material investiture and the habiliments of time.

100:4.3 (1097.7) But the great problem of religious living consists in the task of unifying the soul powers of the personality by the dominance of love. Health, mental efficiency, and happiness arise from the unification of physical systems, mind systems, and spirit systems. Of health and sanity man understands much, but of happiness he has truly realized very little. The highest happiness is indissolubly linked with spiritual progress. Spiritual growth yields lasting joy, peace which passes all understanding.

103:2.7 (1131.6) Moral choosing is usually accompanied by more or less moral conflict. And this very first conflict in the child mind is between the urges of egoism and the impulses of altruism. The Thought Adjuster does not disregard the personality values of the egoistic motive but does operate to place a slight preference upon the altruistic impulse as leading to the goal of human happiness and to the joys of the kingdom of heaven.

103:5.5 (1134.3) Human happiness is achieved only when the ego desire of the self and the altruistic urge of the higher self (divine spirit) are co-ordinated and reconciled by the unified will of the integrating and supervising personality. The mind of evolutionary man is ever confronted with the intricate problem of refereeing the contest between the natural expansion of emotional impulses and the moral growth of unselfish urges predicated on spiritual insight—genuine religious reflection.

103:5.6 (1134.4) The attempt to secure equal good for the self and for the greatest number of other selves presents a problem which cannot always be satisfactorily resolved in a time-space frame. Given an eternal life, such antagonisms can be worked out, but in one short human life they are incapable of solution. Jesus referred to such a paradox when he said: “Whosoever shall save his life shall lose it, but whosoever shall lose his life for the sake of the kingdom, shall find it.”

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
paul_pdxParticipant
Sep 17, 2020, 10:34 PM
Thank you, you’ve really captured it beautifully. I like that next-to-last quote: (I added some commas)

103:5.5 (1134.3) Human happiness is achieved only when the ego desire of the self, and the altruistic urge of the higher self (divine spirit) are co-ordinated and reconciled by the unified will of the integrating and supervising personality. The mind of evolutionary man is ever confronted with the intricate problem of: refereeing the contest between the natural expansion of emotional impulses, and the moral growth of unselfish urges predicated on spiritual insight—genuine religious reflection.

Lately it feels like we are choosing to collectively manifest the multiple dramas currently unfolding, in order to clearly demonstrate to ourselves and our species the emptiness of greed and selfish individualism. The only sustainable path forward is one of compassion, cooperation and selflessness on the local and global scale.

-paul
namelessuntilfusedBlocked
Sep 18, 2020, 9:06 PM
Hi Paul_Pdx!

You wrote, “Lately it feels like we are choosing to collectively manifest the multiple dramas currently unfolding, in order to clearly demonstrate to ourselves and our species the emptiness of greed and selfish individualism. The only sustainable path forward is one of compassion, cooperation and selflessness on the local and global scale.”

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I always feel obliged to ask, “Who is this “we”, Batman?”.

“Collectively manifest” is the weaponization of all forms of modern communications into false PROJECTIONS.

And what are the “multiple dramas”?

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Here’s the whole section from Paper 100:

Religion in Human Experience

4. Problems of Growth

100:4.1

Religious living is devoted living, and devoted living is creative living, original and spontaneous. New religious insights arise out of conflicts which initiate the choosing of new and better reaction habits in the place of older and inferior reaction patterns. New meanings only emerge amid conflict; and conflict persists only in the face of refusal to espouse the higher values connoted in superior meanings.

100:4.2

Religious perplexities are inevitable; there can be no growth without psychic conflict and spiritual agitation. The organization of a philosophic standard of living entails considerable commotion in the philosophic realms of the mind. Loyalties are not exercised in behalf of the great, the good, the true, and the noble without a struggle. Effort is attendant upon clarification of spiritual vision and enhancement of cosmic insight. And the human intellect protests against being weaned from subsisting upon the nonspiritual energies of temporal existence. The slothful animal mind rebels at the effort required to wrestle with cosmic problem solving.

100:4.3

But the great problem of religious living consists in the task of unifying the soul powers of the personality by the dominance of LOVE. Health, mental efficiency, and happiness arise from the unification of physical systems, mind systems, and spirit systems. Of health and sanity man understands much, but of happiness he has truly realized very little. The highest happiness is indissolubly linked with spiritual progress. Spiritual growth yields lasting joy, peace which passes all understanding.

100:4.4

In physical life the senses tell of the existence of things; mind discovers the reality of meanings; but the spiritual experience reveals to the individual the true values of life. These high levels of human living are attained in the supreme love of God and in the unselfish love of man. If you love your fellow men, you must have discovered their values. Jesus loved men so much because he placed such a high value upon them. You can best discover values in your associates by discovering their motivation. If someone irritates you, causes feelings of resentment, you should sympathetically seek to discern his viewpoint, his reasons for such objectionable conduct. If once you understand your neighbor, you will become tolerant, and this tolerance will grow into friendship and ripen into love.

100:4.5

In the mind’s eye conjure up a picture of one of your primitive ancestors of cave-dwelling times—a short, misshapen, filthy, snarling hulk of a man standing, legs spread, club upraised, breathing hate and animosity as he looks fiercely just ahead. Such a picture hardly depicts the divine dignity of man. But allow us to enlarge the picture. In front of this animated human crouches a saber-toothed tiger. Behind him, a woman and two children. Immediately you recognize that such a picture stands for the beginnings of much that is fine and noble in the human race, but the man is the same in both pictures. Only, in the second sketch you are favored with a widened horizon. You therein discern the motivation of this evolving mortal. His attitude becomes praiseworthy because you understand him. If you could only fathom the motives of your associates, how much better you would understand them. If you could only know your fellows, you would eventually fall in love with them.

100:4.6

You cannot truly love your fellows by a mere act of the will. Love is only born of thoroughgoing understanding of your neighbor’s motives and sentiments. It is not so important to love all men today as it is that each day you learn to love one more human being. If each day or each week you achieve an understanding of one more of your fellows, and if this is the limit of your ability, then you are certainly socializing and truly spiritualizing your personality. Love is infectious, and when human devotion is intelligent and wise, love is more catching than hate. But only genuine and unselfish love is truly contagious. If each mortal could only become a focus of dynamic affection, this benign virus of love would soon pervade the sentimental emotion-stream of humanity to such an extent that all civilization would be encompassed by love, and that would be the realization of the brotherhood of man.

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Nihilism, Hedonism, Anarchy?

That drama?

Or am I not getting the bigger noble picture behind the drama of the snarling cave man facing off with a nasty cat?

Can a philosophy for living of nihilism, depraved hedonism, state-mandated religion of atheism, and riotous anarchy on the streets give birth to greater compassion, cooperation and selflessness, eventually? Sounds like the assumption was made that the MAJORITY of a million year old human species have evolved no life support systems, institution of LIFE, honest labor, etc. where “compassion, cooperation” can be expressed as the ACTS of living in their human colony?

Everybody was openly bragging about “weaponizing social media”. Now it is a crap product and dissolving into incoherence. Survival depends on getting off it making it less “convenient” for liars, thieves, and murderers.

Reply on the current forum

Personality survival

Religion in Human Experience

4. Problems of Growth