It was a wasteland after, and no, there’s no mention of Zoar or Lot’s cave dwelling in TUB. I don’t recall it mentioning what happened to him. All we know is that he had descendants.
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"Natural Destruction" of Sodom and Gomorrah
34 posts · 4 participants · started Aug 5, 2019, 10:32 AM
Hi fellows,
Pondering about this natural disaster, affecting Sodom and Gomorrah. And the “up to date”statement with TUB, relating to those specific biblical renown cities … they just given a fact to modify legends and primitives morals and ethics and pass to something else.
Urantia’s historic events are always under those era of lights of primitive ages.
Noah’s deluge , first and second garden disappearance, Jericho’s walls.
If Jesus was so unconcerned with Jericho’s walls of brick and stone, why would God care about them back in 1400 B.C.? I think the idea that God brought them down is a myth, or it could be a metaphor for tearing down evil, like the walls of prejudice, self-righteousness and hate. I think TUB also says that God’s destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a myth, or possibly another metaphor for destroying the evil of retarded morals and ethics. #22055 Bonita
Jesus referring to destruction myth of Jericho’s wall adress the spiritual factor of it and didn’t engage to correct an mythical historical error.
Andre
Hi fellows, Pondering about this natural disaster, affecting Sodom and Gomorrah. And the “up to date”statement with TUB, relating to those specific biblical renown cities … they just given a fact to modify legends and primitives morals and ethics and pass to something else. Urantia’s historic events are always under those era of lights of primitive ages. Noah’s deluge , first and second garden disappearance, Jericho’s walls. If Jesus was so unconcerned with Jericho’s walls of brick and stone, why would God care about them back in 1400 B.C.? I think the idea that God brought them down is a myth, or it could be a metaphor for tearing down evil, like the walls of prejudice, self-righteousness and hate. I think TUB also says that God’s destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a myth, or possibly another metaphor for destroying the evil of retarded morals and ethics. #22055 Bonita Jesus referring to destruction myth of Jericho’s wall adress the spiritual factor of it and didn’t engage to correct an mythical historical error. Andre
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Good points, Andre. Not sure anyone has addressed the spiritual factors impinging on the dangers of democracy… You first
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Richard E Warren
And I’ve always wondered about national defense and pacifism. How is democratic sovereignty protected in the earlier and middle mortal epochs?
Were Van and Amadon warrior chieftains?
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Good points, Andre. Not sure anyone has addressed the spiritual factors impinging on the dangers of democracy… You first
Did you mean to bring this up in the topic about the natural destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? I’m not sure what democracy has to do with that earthquakes or meteor strikes. You got me confused Rick. Even so, isn’t mediocrity a symptom of spiritual inertia? A failure or unwillingness to progress?
Good points, Andre. Not sure anyone has addressed the spiritual factors impinging on the dangers of democracy… You first.
Did you mean to bring this up in the topic about the natural destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? I’m not sure what democracy has to do with that earthquakes or meteor strikes. You got me confused Rick. Even so, isn’t mediocrity a symptom of spiritual inertia? A failure or unwillingness to progress?
O thank you! No, didn’t intend to, blame brainslip (or slop). My apologies for misleading the topic, Bonita, Bradly, all.
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Richard E Warren
Hi fellows, Pondering about this natural disaster, affecting Sodom and Gomorrah. And the “up to date”statement with TUB, relating to those specific biblical renown cities … they just given a fact to modify legends and primitives morals and ethics and pass to something else. Urantia’s historic events are always under those era of lights of primitive ages. Noah’s deluge , first and second garden disappearance, Jericho’s walls. If Jesus was so unconcerned with Jericho’s walls of brick and stone, why would God care about them back in 1400 B.C.? I think the idea that God brought them down is a myth, or it could be a metaphor for tearing down evil, like the walls of prejudice, self-righteousness and hate. I think TUB also says that God’s destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a myth, or possibly another metaphor for destroying the evil of retarded morals and ethics. #22055 Bonita Jesus referring to destruction myth of Jericho’s wall adress the spiritual factor of it and didn’t engage to correct an mythical historical error. Andre
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Ok, back to Andre’s point on the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. You’re point Andre, I think, is that the spiritual lesson is the more important one, yes?
Richard E Warren
Hi,
Were Van and Amadon warrior chieftains?
noun plural def: chieftains :the leader of a people or clan. ……. yesI neither connect the dots …. about democracy …not that sometimes we might sway back and forth Rick, it is infallibly when have the courage to express ourselves.
- 134:6.11 (1491.5) Under global government the national groups will be afforded a real opportunity to realize and enjoy the personal liberties of genuine democracy.
- 2. The Evolution of Representative Government
71:2.1 (801.13) Democracy, while an ideal, is a product of civilization, not of evolution. Go slowly! select carefully! for the dangers of democracy are:
71:2.2 (801.14) 1. Glorification of mediocrity.
71:2.3 (801.15) 2. Choice of base and ignorant rulers.
71:2.4 (801.16) 3. Failure to recognize the basic facts of social evolution.
71:2.5 (801.17) 4. Danger of universal suffrage in the hands of uneducated and indolent majorities.
71:2.6 (801.18) 5. Slavery to public opinion; the majority is not always right.
71:2.7 (802.1) Public opinion, common opinion, has always delayed society; nevertheless, it is valuable, for, while retarding social evolution, it does preserve civilization. Education of public opinion is the only safe and true method of accelerating civilization; force is only a temporary expedient, and cultural growth will increasingly accelerate as bullets give way to ballots. Public opinion, the mores, is the basic and elemental energy in social evolution and state development, but to be of state value it must be nonviolent in expression.
71:2.8 (802.2) The measure of the advance of society is directly determined by the degree to which public opinion can control personal behavior and state regulation through nonviolent expression. The really civilized government had arrived when public opinion was clothed with the powers of personal franchise. Popular elections may not always decide things rightly, but they represent the right way even to do a wrong thing. Evolution does not at once produce superlative perfection but rather comparative and advancing practical adjustment.
TUB view a potential danger with civilization considering mass “public opinion.”…. but interesting they told us even then …. Popular elections may not always decide things rightly, but they represent the right way even to do a wrong thing.- 88:3:4 (970.5) Men have also made a fetish of <mark> democracy</mark>, the exaltation and adoration of the common man’s ideas when collectively called “public opinion.” One man’s opinion, when taken by itself, is not regarded as worth much, but when many men are collectively functioning as a <mark>democracy</mark>, this same mediocre judgment is held to be the arbiter of justice and the standard of righteousness.
That is so true André. Last night I watched a documentary on the witch trials in England during the 1600’s. It reminded me of the horrific danger in allowing public opinion to dominate the rule of law. When the public is poorly educated and reacting on emotions rather than wisdom, all hell can break loose. So many people suffered and died because of rampant idiocy. Saturday night I watched the movie Trumbo for the first time and had the same exact feeling . . . the rampant idiocy of public opinion destroying people’s lives and the rule of law. It’s a real and present danger, and TUB is warning us to stay vigilant against it.
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We agree, Trumbo was a fine example of the madness that so often possesses and carries us back, even below, the instinctual behaviors of our animal ancestors, an ugly mob feeling that ignites an anger and stokes a resentment we didn’t know we had, or don’t care to acknowledge. Maybe a third of us have a goodly store of bellicosity. It still pops up into my supposed enlightened existence at 72. Sometimes I would very much like to, to just, just… Never mind! Anyway, it’s all the Nodites fault.
Back to Sodom and Gomorrah’s destruction, a wholly natural event whether by earthquake or meteor strike. But look what public opinion did with it! God got pissed because you numb-brains didn’t use a pink altar like it says in the holy writ that was found inscribed on the holy tree’s trunk by God’s own lightening, and witnessed by our venerable flawless shaman. Humans! We, as a group, always do the right thing… last. But, we will get there. We will.
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Richard E Warren
Wasn’t Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed because the mob wanted to have sex with God’s angels who were visiting Lot? Debauchery, lechery and sybaritism? (Just discovered that word and wanted to use it. Not sure if I used it right. Had no idea it existed until today and will rapidly forget it tomorrow.)
G’day fellows,
Fake news
Fables/Legends/Confabulation/fodder
The Judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah
Sodom and Gomorrah being destroyed in the background of Lucas van Leyden‘s 1520 painting Lot and his DaughtersThe story of the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah is told in Genesis 18–19. Three men, thought by most commentators to have been angels appearing as men,<sup class=”noprint Inline-Template Template-Fact”>[citation needed] came to Abraham in the plains of Mamre. After the angels received the hospitality of Abraham and Sarah, the Lord revealed to Abraham that he would confirm what he had heard against Sodom and Gomorrah, “and because their sin is very grievous.”
In response, Abraham inquired of the Lord if he would spare the city if 50 righteous people were found in it, to which the Lord agreed he would not destroy it for the sake of the righteous yet dwelling therein. Abraham then inquired of God for mercy at lower numbers (first 45, then 40, then 30, then 20, and finally at 10), with the Lord agreeing each time.<sup id=”cite_ref-18″ class=”reference”>[18] Two angels were sent to Sodom to investigate and were met by Abraham’s nephew Lot, who convinced the angels to lodge with him, and they ate with Lot.
Genesis 19:4–5 described what followed, which confirmed its end:
4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both young and old, all the people from every quarter.
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him: ‘Where are the men that came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.’(NRSV: know them, NIV: can have sex with them, NJB: can have intercourse with them).
Sodom and Gomorrah from the Nuremberg Chronicle by Hartmann Schedel, 1493. Lot’s wife, already transformed into a salt pillar, is in the center.Lot refused to give his guests to the inhabitants of Sodom and, instead, offered them his two virgin daughters “which have not known man” and to “do ye to them as [is] good in your eyes”. However, they refused this offer, complained about this alien, namely Lot, judging them, and then came near to break down the door. Lot’s angelic guests rescued him and struck the men with blindness and they informed Lot of their mission to destroy the city. Then (not having found even 10 righteous people in the city), they commanded Lot to gather his family and leave. As they made their escape, one angel commanded Lot to “look not behind thee” (singular “thee”). However, as Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with brimstone and fire from the Lord, Lot’s wife looked back at the city, and she became a pillar of salt.
sybaritism: devotion to sensual pleasures. — sybarite, n. — sybaritic, adj.G’day fellows,
Fake news
Fables/Legends/Confabulation/fodder
The Judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah
Sodom and Gomorrah being destroyed in the background of Lucas van Leyden‘s 1520 painting Lot and his DaughtersThe story of the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah is told in Genesis 18–19. Three men, thought by most commentators to have been angels appearing as men,<sup class=”noprint Inline-Template Template-Fact”>[citation needed] came to Abraham in the plains of Mamre. After the angels received the hospitality of Abraham and Sarah, the Lord revealed to Abraham that he would confirm what he had heard against Sodom and Gomorrah, “and because their sin is very grievous.” In response, Abraham inquired of the Lord if he would spare the city if 50 righteous people were found in it, to which the Lord agreed he would not destroy it for the sake of the righteous yet dwelling therein. Abraham then inquired of God for mercy at lower numbers (first 45, then 40, then 30, then 20, and finally at 10), with the Lord agreeing each time.<sup id=”cite_ref-18″ class=”reference”>[18] Two angels were sent to Sodom to investigate and were met by Abraham’s nephew Lot, who convinced the angels to lodge with him, and they ate with Lot. Genesis 19:4–5 described what followed, which confirmed its end:
4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both young and old, all the people from every quarter. 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him: ‘Where are the men that came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.’ (NRSV: know them, NIV: can have sex with them, NJB: can have intercourse with them).
Sodom and Gomorrah from the Nuremberg Chronicle by Hartmann Schedel, 1493. Lot’s wife, already transformed into a salt pillar, is in the center.Lot refused to give his guests to the inhabitants of Sodom and, instead, offered them his two virgin daughters “which have not known man” and to “do ye to them as [is] good in your eyes”. However, they refused this offer, complained about this alien, namely Lot, judging them, and then came near to break down the door. Lot’s angelic guests rescued him and struck the men with blindness and they informed Lot of their mission to destroy the city. Then (not having found even 10 righteous people in the city), they commanded Lot to gather his family and leave. As they made their escape, one angel commanded Lot to “look not behind thee” (singular “thee”). However, as Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with brimstone and fire from the Lord, Lot’s wife looked back at the city, and she became a pillar of salt.
sybaritism: devotion to sensual pleasures. — sybarite, n. — sybaritic, adj.Thank you Andre, for setting the record straight on the crooked record. And the definition of sybaritic… Now back to that tall stack of syrupy pancakes.
.Richard E Warren
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Two more theories, the first one is from that oft quoted historian Josephus:
Instead of both fire and brimstone, Josephus has only lightning as the cause of the fire that destroyed Sodom: “God then cast a thunderbolt upon the city, and set it on fire, with its inhabitants; and laid waste the country with the like burning, as I formerly said when I wrote The Jewish War.”
Certain skeptics of the biblical account have theorized that, provided that the cities existed at all, they might have been destroyed by natural disaster. One such idea is that the Dead Sea was devastated by an earthquake between 2100 and 1900 BCE. This might have unleashed showers of steaming tar. It is possible that the towns were destroyed by an earthquake, especially if they lay along a major fault such as the Jordan Rift Valley. There is a lack of contemporary accounts of seismic activity within the necessary timeframe, however, to corroborate this theory.
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Richard E Warren
