34 posts · 4 participants · started Aug 5, 2019, 10:32 AM
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Question Forum Friends: Twice in the UB, Machiventa refers to this destruction, but what was it? Do you recall another reference? Any ideas?
93:6:7 (1021.3) This was an appearance of fact, notwithstanding its association with the subsequently fabricated narratives relating to the natural destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah
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93:8:0 (1022.3) It was shortly after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah that Machiventa decided to end his emergency bestowal on Urantia.
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Richard E Warren
I don’t know of any other reference but scientists now think that both cities were located on a fault line which contained a significant amount of bitumen, petroleum, natural gas and sulfur. The current theory is that an earthquake ignited the cities into a fiery inferno.
And were on a now submersed peninsula in the Dead Sea…
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Hi,
Certain skeptics of the biblical account have theorized that, provided that the cities existed at all, they might have been destroyed by natural disaster. One such idea is that the Dead Sea was devastated by an earthquake between 2100 and 1900 BCE. This might have unleashed showers of steaming tar.<sup id=”cite_ref-32″ class=”reference”>[32] It is possible that the towns were destroyed by an earthquake, especially if they lay along a major fault such as the Jordan Rift Valley. There is a lack of contemporary accounts of seismic activity within the necessary timeframe, however, to corroborate this theory.<sup id=”cite_ref-33″ class=”reference”>[33]
In 2018, it was proposed that this ancient city was destroyed about 3700 years ago by a meteoritic explosion in the atmosphere equivalent to 10 megatonnes, laying waste in Tall el-Hammam and degrading the fertility of the local land.<sup id=”cite_ref-34″ class=”reference”>[34]<sup id=”cite_ref-35″ class=”reference”>[35]<sup id=”cite_ref-36″ class=”reference”>[36]<sup id=”cite_ref-37″ class=”reference”>[37]
In 1976 Giovanni Pettinato claimed that a cuneiform tablet that had been found in the newly discovered library at Ebla contained the names of all five of the cities of the plain (Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboim, and Bela), listed in the same order as in Genesis. The names si-da-mu [TM.76.G.524] and ì-ma-ar [TM.75.G.1570 and TM.75.G.2233] were identified as representing Sodom and Gomorrah, which gained some acceptance at the time.<sup id=”cite_ref-38″ class=”reference”>[38] However, Alfonso Archi states that, judging from the surrounding city names in the cuneiform list, si-da-mu lies in northern Syria and not near the Dead Sea, and ì-ma-ar is a variant of ì-mar, known to represent Emar, an ancient city located near Ebla.<sup id=”cite_ref-39″ class=”reference”>[39] Today, the scholarly consensus is that “Ebla has no bearing on … Sodom and Gomorra.”<sup id=”cite_ref-Y_40-0″ class=”reference”>[40]
Excavations of the areas near Mount Sodom, Tel el-Hammam, and Bab edh-Dhra, led by Ron Wyatt, uncovered large sulfur chunks embedded within natural rock. However, despite this seemingly incriminating find, these sulfuric deposits are most likely the result of calcite and gypsum reacting with the local strata following a seismic event. Furthermore, Wyatt’s reliability is discredited by many scholars, historians, historical organizations, the Israel Antiquities Authority<sup id=”cite_ref-41″ class=”reference”>[41] and even religious institutions, including Answers in Genesis.<sup id=”cite_ref-42″ class=”reference”>[42]
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<sup id=”cite_ref-42″ class=”reference”>93:6.7 (1021.3) It was following this real and public surrender of his personal ambitions in behalf of the larger plans of Melchizedek that the three celestial beings appeared to him on the plains of Mamre. This was an appearance of fact, notwithstanding its association with the subsequently fabricated narratives relating to the natural destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah And these legends of the happenings of those days indicate how retarded were the morals and ethics of even so recent a time.
* wikipedia references
Paper 92 – The Later Evolution of Religion
92:5:5 (1008.7) On Urantia man has been deprived of these superhuman leaders and rulers, and therefore does he constantly seek to make good this loss by enshrouding his human leaders with <mark> legends</mark> pertaining to supernatural origins and miraculous careers.
Paper 101 – The Real Nature of Religion
101:5:9 (1110.12) Neither <mark> logic</mark> (rationalization) nor emotion (feeling) is essentially a part of religious experience, although both may variously be associated with the exercise of faith in the furtherance of spiritual insight into reality, all according to the status and temperamental tendency of the individual mind.
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Thanks every one, for the good and quick replies. Apparently the answer to what caused their destruction isn’t in the UB. But an earthquake and it’s consequences makes the most sense, especially in the most seismically active region on the sphere.
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Richard E Warren
And were on a now submersed peninsula in the Dead Sea…
PS. Hmm! That’s interesting. Appreciate the comment Bradly. Know where to find this reference?
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Richard E Warren
. Thanks every one, for the good and quick replies. Apparently the answer to what caused their destruction isn’t in the UB. But an earthquake and it’s consequences makes the most sense, especially in the most seismically active region on the sphere. .
Just so you know, the theory that the cities are now submerged in the Dead Sea is an old one. The current archeological evidence is pointing to a place called Tall El Hammam in Jordan and the destruction is thought to be caused by an exploding meteor.
. Thanks every one, for the good and quick replies. Apparently the answer to what caused their destruction isn’t in the UB. But an earthquake and it’s consequences makes the most sense, especially in the most seismically active region on the sphere. .
Just so you know, the theory that the cities are now submerged in the Dead Sea is an old one. The current archeological evidence is pointing to a place called Tall El Hammam in Jordan and the destruction is thought to be caused by an exploding meteor. https://tallelhammam.com
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Couldn’t find mention of meteors in that link, Bonita. Most research puts the two towns on the very edge of the Dead Sea (followed by a question mark). Earthquake seems far more likely than a meteor. Flooding could have wiped them out, but in association with a rapid geologic shift…
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Richard E Warren
My source is Britannica and also states the submergence was due to earthquake….or most likely anyway.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Rick Warren wrote:Couldn’t find mention of meteors in that link, Bonita.
OK. How about wikipedia?
Hi,
… Apparently the answer to what caused their destruction isn’t in the UB. post 36133 Rick
… its association with the subsequently fabricated narratives relating to the natural destruction of
Sodom and Gomorrah post 36132 Andre
Hi, … Apparently the answer to what caused their destruction isn’t in the UB. post 36133 Rick … its association with the subsequently fabricated narratives relating to the natural destruction of
Sodom and Gomorrah post 36132 Andre
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Yes, André. That quote was in the original post. The question is what kind of ‘natural destruction’. It comes down to either earthquakes or a meteor strike.
I vote for earthquake.
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Richard E Warren
I like the earthquake model also, but a meteor is not unreasonable. TUB says that millions come into our atmosphere everyday. The ancients would have given much more mystical significance to a meteor than an earthquake. Fire shooting from the sky would have been a powerful sign to them. Machiventa decided to end his bestowal right after the event. Was he utilizing the awe attached to this inspiriting spectacle to impress the people of the significance of his message? Just playin’ with the imagery.
49:3.3 Millions upon millions of meteorites enter the atmosphere of Urantia daily, coming in at the rate of almost two hundred miles a second.
I like the earthquake model also, but a meteor is not unreasonable. TUB says that millions come into our atmosphere everyday. The ancients would have given much more mystical significance to a meteor than an earthquake. Fire shooting from the sky would have been a powerful sign to them. Machiventa decided to end his bestowal right after the event. Was he utilizing the awe attached to this inspiriting spectacle to impress the people of the significance of his message? Just playin’ with the imagery.
49:3.3 Millions upon millions of meteorites enter the atmosphere of Urantia daily, coming in at the rate of almost two hundred miles a second.
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Yeah… but only a few make it to the ground, and fewer still are significant hits, thank heaven (or the Architects of the Master Universe) for atmosphere! It can’t be ruled out, but a significant earthquake (in the most active of seismic areas) would have tipped over most of the ovens and fires in the valley and set everything ablaze.
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Richard E Warren
Yeah… but only a few make it to the ground, and fewer still are significant hits, thank heaven (or the Architects of the Master Universe) for atmosphere! It can’t be ruled out, but a significant earthquake (in the most active of seismic areas) would have tipped over most of the ovens and fires in the valley and set everything ablaze.
True, but meteors don’t have to hit the ground. Most break apart in the atmosphere, but if they are close enough those broken fiery pieces can rain down on the earth, which is how it’s described in Genesis 19:24 Then the Lord rained down fire and burning sulfur from the sky on Sodom and Gomorrah. A similar air-burst event happened in 1908 over Tunguska in Siberia.
Yeah… but only a few make it to the ground, and fewer still are significant hits, thank heaven (or the Architects of the Master Universe) for atmosphere! It can’t be ruled out, but a significant earthquake (in the most active of seismic areas) would have tipped over most of the ovens and fires in the valley and set everything ablaze.
True, but meteors don’t have to hit the ground. Most break apart in the atmosphere, but if they are close enough those broken fiery pieces can rain down on the earth, which is how it’s described in Genesis 19:24 Then the Lord rained down fire and burning sulfur from the sky on Sodom and Gomorrah. A similar air-burst event happened in 1908 over Tunguska in Siberia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmack/2018/12/04/new-science-suggests-biblical-city-of-sodom-was-smote-by-an-exploding-meteor/#14b6276b5c67
The sulfur ‘firenada’ caused by either quake or meteor might appear as a tower of flames rising into the sky. And if a meteor did break into pieces, why weren’t other villages/areas affected? Admittedly, there could have been a small, single meteor that struck smack between the two towns. But why just those two when there is only (probably, researchers don’t pin them down) a short distance between most all of the villages there? Tiny Palestine was dotted with them. Guess we won’t know unless/until conclusive proof comes in. Curious that Melchizedek didn’t reveal the nature of the ‘natural disaster’, isn’t it? One word would have done it.
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Richard E Warren
The sulfur ‘firenada’ caused by either quake or meteor might appear as a tower of flames rising into the sky. And if a meteor did break into pieces, why weren’t other villages/areas affected? Admittedly, there could have been a small, single meteor that struck smack between the two towns. But why just those two when there is only (probably, researchers don’t pin them down) a short distance between most all of the villages there? Tiny Palestine was dotted with them. Guess we won’t know unless/until conclusive proof comes in. Curious that Melchizedek didn’t reveal the nature of the ‘natural disaster’, isn’t it? One word would have done it.
An earthquake involving a natural gas leak would probably explode with fiery pieces raining down, so I can see how that would fulfill the biblical narrative. In regards to the proposed meteor air-burst area over Tall el-Hammam, researches claim it wiped out those two cities and all towns in a 200 mi. radius, and the land was unusable for over 700 years. Tall el-Hammam is on the ancient trade route which is interesting because we know that Lot chose to live in Sodom because he wanted to engage in trade. We also know that there was a king of Sodom because he joined Abraham’s army, and excavation at Tall el-Hammam has uncovered a palace. So, there’s some compelling evidence, but no proof.
…In regards to the proposed meteor air-burst area over Tall el-Hammam, researches claim it wiped out those two cities and all towns in a 200 mi. radius, and the land was unusable for over 700 years.
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That claim pretty much rules out a meteor. There were scores, if not hundreds, of villages in that 400 mile circle.
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Richard E Warren
The researchers claim they have geological evidence that the area was a wasteland, unable to support crops or livestock. I forget which link I read that . . . read about half a dozen on line. Another thing to think about. Lot moved to Zoar and lived in a cave. Zoar was not affected by the natural disaster and was therefore habitable. Zoar is far south of Tall el-Hammam. Also, if the natural disaster was an earthquake, why live in a cave if you’ve just been traumatized by it? I would think a cave is unsafe during an earthquake, but it would shelter a man from fire raining from the sky.
The researchers claim they have geological evidence that the area was a wasteland, unable to support crops or livestock. I forget which link I read that . . . read about half a dozen on line. Another thing to think about. Lot moved to Zoar and lived in a cave. Zoar was not affected by the natural disaster and was therefore habitable. Zoar is far south of Tall el-Hammam. Also, if the natural disaster was an earthquake, why live in a cave if you’ve just been traumatized by it? I would think a cave is unsafe during an earthquake, but it would shelter a man from fire raining from the sky.
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Does that mean it was a wasteland before or after or both? Can’t find any UB support for Lot’s cave-dwelling or Zoar. Did I miss it?
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Richard E Warren
