Duré du voyage de uranria à maisonnia 1

32 posts · 8 participants · started Sep 2, 2021, 4:04 PM

1. RE

   Richard E WarrenParticipant
   Sep 19, 2021, 2:45 PM

   Nigel Nunn wrote:

   Mara wrote:

   I am not convinced that the architectural worlds of Satania are 50,000 (more or less) light-years away. Can you or someone else help us with this? I have other questions too.

   From Paper 41:3.1:

   “There are upward of two thousand brilliant suns pouring forth light and energy in Satania, …” (458.1, 41:3.1)

   This 1998 NASA page, local star counts states there are 2,127 stars within 65 light years (20 parsecs) from Earth. So if Satania contains about two thousand stars, then the distance from here to Jerusem might be 10 to 20 light years? Nigel

   Hi Jean, Mara, Nigel, all,

   Another reader (Chris Halvorson) speculated that Satania headquarters is about 15 light years from here. He based this on the fact that it was seven years after the outbreak of rebellion that the Melchizedek receivers showed up on Urantia. It took two Urantia years for things to settle on Jerusem, and five years travel time at 3X light speed. This compares favorably with Nigel’s supposition/question.

   .

   Richard E Warren

2. J

   jeanParticipant
   Sep 19, 2021, 7:07 PM

   Salut à tous

   D’accord avec vous pour cette supposition, mais il doit y avoir quelque chose qui nous échappe, car je reste convaincu que 10 ou 15 années lumière (même divisé par 3x)  il reste 3 ou 4 années lumières et cela me semble trop long!!

   Je cherche encore

   A+

   Jean

3. A

   AlainParticipant
   Sep 20, 2021, 3:15 AM

   Hello all,

   This is an interesting subject that reaches me. Here are some thoughts:

   The UB mentions that Seraphim can move at 3^rd velocity…fine. That’s a bit like saying a typical human can run at, let’s say, 30 miles an hour for the example. But if I want to go from point A to point B and if I use an animal or some mechanical device, I can reach my destination in much lesser time.

   There are likely many and many tasks that Seraphim accomplish in their traveling that do not require instant reception. As I understand it, time is not a worrisome factor for these beings. They do things in a manner required.

   So what if, for practical purposes, transferring a soul from Urantia or a neighboring planet to the Mansion worlds is not a secondary issue and requires using the energy focalisation of the physical controllers that can, at will, set up a power line for quick transport? The revelators in the quote below do make a distinction between transport and communication.

   29:4.14 (325.7) The physical controllers are chiefly occupied in the adjustment of basic energies undiscovered on Urantia. These unknown energies are very essential to the interplanetary system of transport and to certain techniques of communication. When we lay lines of energy for the purpose of conveying sound equivalents or of extending vision, these undiscovered forms of energy are utilized by the living physical controllers and their associates. These same energies are also, on occasion, used by the midway creatures in their routine work.

   29:4.19 (326.1) Of all the Master Physical Controllers assigned to the inhabited worlds, the mechanical controllers are by far the most powerful. Possessing the living endowment of antigravity in excess of all other beings, each controller has a gravity resistance equaled only by enormous spheres revolving at tremendous velocity. Ten of these controllers are now stationed on Urantia, and one of their most important planetary activities is to facilitate the departure of seraphic transports. In so functioning, all ten of the mechanical controllers act in unison while a battery of one thousand energy transmitters provides the initial momentum for the seraphic departure.

   29:4.20 (326.2) The mechanical controllers are competent to directionize the flow of energy and to facilitate its concentration into the specialized currents or circuits. These mighty beings have much to do with the segregation, directionization, and intensification of the physical energies and with the equalization of the pressures of the interplanetary circuits. They are expert in the manipulation of twenty-one of the thirty physical energies of space, constituting the power charge of a superuniverse. They are also able to accomplish much towards the management and control of six of the nine more subtle forms of physical energy. By placing these controllers in proper technical relationship to each other and to certain of the power centers, the associate power directors are enabled to effect unbelievable changes in power adjustment and energy control.

    

4. B

   BradlyParticipant
   Sep 20, 2021, 12:17 PM

   Thanks and very interesting indeed.  There is usually a definitive relationship between time and space (distance).  But we should remember that the abrogation of time is a reality function presented multiple times in Part IV related to certain episodes from the wedding wine to the empty tomb.

    

   As I pointed out such a possibility above:

   “… if there is a shorter distance between two points than a straight line?  Are there space curvature or time warps or distance portals or some other forms of physics shortcuts for such distance traversal?”

    

   Perhaps the quickening of time somehow disregards distance or speed (or both)?

   137:4.13 (1530.5) But this was in no sense a miracle. No law of nature was modified, abrogated, or even transcended. Nothing happened but the abrogation of time in association with the celestial assembly of the chemical elements requisite for the elaboration of the wine. At Cana on this occasion the agents of the Creator made wine just as they do by the ordinary natural processes except that they did it independently of time and with the intervention of superhuman agencies in the matter of the space assembly of the necessary chemical ingredients.

   

   "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

5. MK

   Mark KurtzParticipant
   Sep 20, 2021, 4:38 PM

   Bradly, perhaps something similar to planetary great circle? Pilots use great circle extensively

    

6. B

   BradlyParticipant
   Sep 20, 2021, 5:31 PM

   Mark Kurtz wrote:

   Bradly, perhaps something similar to planetary great circle? Pilots use great circle extensively

   That’s what I was thinking.   Lots of sci-fi time portals too.

   But what is time?  And what is distance without time?

   189:2.8 (2024.1) The mortal remains of Jesus underwent the same natural process of elemental disintegration as characterizes all human bodies on earth except that, in point of time, this natural mode of dissolution was greatly accelerated, hastened to that point where it became well-nigh instantaneous.

   "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

7. M

   MaraParticipant
   Sep 20, 2021, 7:09 PM

   Bradly wrote:

   But what is time?  And what is distance without time?

   Does this help?

   115:3.18   From a circumscribed view there are, indeed, many ends, many terminations of activities, but from a larger viewpoint on a higher universe level, there are no endings, merely transitions from one phase of development to another. The major chronicity of the master universe is concerned with the several universe ages, the Havona, the superuniverse, and the outer universe ages. But even these basic divisions of sequence relationships cannot be more than relative landmarks on the unending highway of eternity.

8. T

   TapioParticipant
   Sep 20, 2021, 7:44 PM

   The topic is interesting, but I think the discussion of distances in space and speed of angels is mostly irrelevant in this context. First, the resurrection on the “third day” is no way exclusive to people in Urantia, but the same applies on all planets, on all locations. Second, they never say the three day -delay is due to travel or distance in space. Third, the “third day” -statement seem to apply also when there is no transition between places, like when Jesus arose from the tomb.

   I cannot say how the resurrection on the “third day” happens, but the explanation must be somewhere else, than in traveling. E.g. are the Guardian Angels on Urantia, or do they “work remotely”. If they are on Urantia, so where do they stay if they look after a thousand people simultaneously?

   The statement “third day” or “third period” is found dozens of times in The Urantia Book. Amazingly many things happen just on the third day, when somebody goes somewhere. Below I picked some of these.

   * * *

   20:6.6 (229.5) When the bestowal Sons, Creator or Magisterial, enter the portals of death, they reappear on the third day.

   35:2.8 (386.6) The Melchizedeks – – and then, following the correctional rest, reinstatement to service ensues on the third day.

   62:7.1 (709.8) – – On the third day after the elopement of the twins – – there arrived the Nebadon archangel of initial planetary circuit establishment.

   75:6.3 (844.5) The Edenic caravan was halted on the third day out from the Garden by the arrival of the seraphic transports from Jerusem.

   93:10.1 (1024.3) – – And on the third day after his disappearance from Salem he [Melchizedek] appeared among his eleven fellows of the Urantia assignment

   119:1.3 (1309.4) Not until the third day after Michael’s departure was any message of possible significance received. On this day a communication was registered on Salvington from the Melchizedek sphere, the headquarters of that order in Nebadon, which simply recorded this extraordinary and never-before-heard-of transaction: “At noon today there appeared on the receiving field of this world a strange Melchizedek Son – – [Ref. first bestowal of Michael]

   119:2.7 (1312.1) And then did this transient ruler of a rebellious system take leave of the planet of his short administrative sojourn, while on the third day thereafter Michael appeared on Salvington and resumed the direction of the universe of Nebadon.  – – [Ref. second bestowal of Michael]

   119:3.4 (1312.5) – – the transitory or emergency Planetary Prince took formal leave, disappearing at noon one day. On the third day thereafter, Michael appeared in his accustomed place on Salvington – – [Ref. third bestowal of Michael]

   119:4.2 (1313.5) On the third day after this bestowal disappearance we observed, in the universe broadcasts to Uversa – – [Ref. fourth bestowal of Michael]

9. M

   MaraParticipant
   Sep 21, 2021, 12:27 AM

   Tapio wrote:

   . . . I cannot say how the resurrection on the “third day” happens, but the explanation must be somewhere else. . . .

   Welcome Tapio. (I forgot to welcome Nigel, Bradly, Richard, Mark and Alain. This is an interesting topic.)

   Could it be that the number three as used by the revelators to refer to the third day or the third period, is meant to suggest the reality of our origins – the three original persons of Deity, three existential Absolutes, three Sources and Centers, three Paradise Deities functioning as the Trinity whose children we are (10:6.16)?

   104:1.13   Not since the times of Jesus has the factual identity of the Paradise Trinity been known on Urantia (except by a few individuals to whom it was especially revealed) until its presentation in these revelatory disclosures.

10. M

    MaraParticipant
    Sep 24, 2021, 5:41 AM

    Tapio wrote:

    E.g. are the Guardian Angels on Urantia, or do they “work remotely”. If they are on Urantia, so where do they stay if they look after a thousand people simultaneously?

    Here they tell us all the survivors since the days of Adam appeared in the resurrection halls before the guardian seraphim ever left.  They say *ordinarily* the guardians would have been present in the resurrection halls the moment of their awakening.

    3. The Dispensational Resurrection

    ^{(2024.3) 189:3.1} A little after half past four o’clock this Sunday morning, Gabriel summoned the archangels to his side and made ready to inaugurate the general resurrection of the termination of the Adamic dispensation on Urantia. When the vast host of the seraphim and the cherubim concerned in this great event had been marshaled in proper formation, the morontia Michael appeared before Gabriel, saying: “As my Father has life in himself, so has he given it to the Son to have life in himself. Although I have not yet fully resumed the exercise of universe jurisdiction, this self-imposed limitation does not in any manner restrict the bestowal of life upon my sleeping sons; let the roll call of the planetary resurrection begin.”

    ^{(2024.4) 189:3.2} The circuit of the archangels then operated for the first time from Urantia. Gabriel and the archangel hosts moved to the place of the spiritual polarity of the planet; and when Gabriel gave the signal, there flashed to the first of the system mansion worlds the voice of Gabriel, saying: “By the mandate of Michael, let the dead of a Urantia dispensation rise!” Then all the survivors of the human races of Urantia who had fallen asleep since the days of Adam, and who had not already gone on to judgment, appeared in the resurrection halls of mansonia in readiness for morontia investiture. And in an instant of time the seraphim and their associates made ready to depart for the mansion worlds. Ordinarily these seraphic guardians, onetime assigned to the group custody of these surviving mortals, would have been present at the moment of their awaking in the resurrection halls of mansonia, but they were on this world itself at this time because of the necessity of Gabriel’s presence here in connection with the morontia resurrection of Jesus.

    They would have been present, but they were not present at the moment of awaking, because they were needed here.  Seraphic records are made:

    (1243.6) 113:2.9 When a seraphic pair accept guardian assignment, they serve for the remainder of the life of that human being. The complement of being (one of the two angels) becomes the recorder of the undertaking. These complemental seraphim are the recording angels of the mortals of the evolutionary worlds. The records are kept by the pair of cherubim (a cherubim and a sanobim) who are always associated with the seraphic guardians, but these records are always sponsored by one of the seraphim.

    And others are record keepers too:

    112:4.2 [Part III]

    In some way not fully understood, the Universal Censors are able to gain possession of an epitome of the human life as it is embodied in the Adjuster’s duplicate transcription of the spiritual values and morontia meanings of the indwelt mind. The Censors are able to appropriate the Adjuster’s version of the deceased human’s survival character and spiritual qualities, and all this data, together with the seraphic records, is available for presentation at the time of the adjudication of the individual concerned. This information is also used to confirm those superuniverse mandates which make it possible for certain ascenders immediately to begin their morontia careers, upon mortal dissolution to proceed to the mansion worlds ahead of the formal termination of a planetary dispensation.

     

     

11. M

    MaraParticipant
    Sep 24, 2021, 3:21 PM

    Summaries, life records, data, reports, recommendations, decrees, mandates about survivor character flash forth over communication circuits.

    112:4.12  If, when death overtakes you, you have attained the third circle or a higher realm and therefore have had assigned to you a personal guardian of destiny, and if the final transcript of the summary of survival character submitted by the Adjuster is unconditionally certified by the destiny guardian — if both seraphim and Adjuster essentially agree in every item of their life records and recommendations — if the Universal Censors and their reflective associates on Uversa confirm this data and do so without equivocation or reservation, in that event the Ancients of Days flash forth the mandate of advanced standing over the communication circuits to Salvington, and, thus released, the tribunals of the Sovereign of Nebadon will decree the immediate passage of the surviving soul to the resurrection halls of the mansion worlds.

    Maybe reflectivity services make some of this possible.

    108:1.8   The short time intervening between the volunteering and the actual dispatch of the Adjuster is presumably spent in the Divinington schools of the Personalized Monitors where a working pattern of the waiting mortal mind is utilized in instructing the assigned Adjuster as to the most effective plans for personality approach and mind spiritization. This mind model is formulated through a combination of data supplied by the superuniverse reflectivity service. At least this is our understanding, a belief which we hold as the result of putting together information secured by contact with many Personalized Adjusters throughout the long universe careers of the Solitary Messengers.
12. T

    TapioParticipant
    Sep 24, 2021, 8:44 PM

    One more explanation, though rather hypothetical, is that the resurrection in the Mansion worlds on the “third day” is the seraphic travel from Urantia to Mansion plus three days.

    According to the Einstein’s proven theory of relativity the elapsing of time will gradually slow down along with the speed, even to zero at the speed of light, from an external observer point of view. The passenger himself will not “feel the difference” (e.g, by monitoring his own heart rate from the watch), but the external observer will see passenger’s time to slow down. However, this phenomenon applies in the physical world, up to (close to) the speed of light. Any material cannot reach the speed of light, as the mass will increase accordingly.

    Seraphim and the soul are not (physical) material, so does this theory apply them anyhow? Furthermore, how to deal with the speeds beyond the speed of light, which is possible in the spiritual world?

    Regardless of this hypothetical theory, I’m not in favor to take it at all as a solution to the dilemma. There must be some other way, unknown to us, how they make so many things in the universe to happen on the “third day”.

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