advice for an ub believer and a nonbeliever couple

45 posts · 11 participants · started Dec 14, 2017, 7:39 AM

1. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Jan 4, 2018, 2:03 PM

   chucksmith1982 wrote:

   Bonita, I will coppy the part of your post that I was refering to. You said “I agree, the belief in transubstantiation is a bunch of hocus-pocus hooey,….” That could deeply offend anyone who has deeply held Christian beliefs such as the people I deal with. If any of them read that, they would assume that everyone who was an ub believer had the same attitude of insulting hostility towards Christianity. Also, that attitude is the same one that I get from Christians about the ub. It isn’t my belief system so it doesn’t count.

   Hey there chucksmith.  Did you read the rest of what I wrote?  I said that the hocus-pocus is not true but the rendezvous with Jesus is true, and therefore the ritual has some merit. That IS focusing on the positive.  You yourself do not believe in the hocus-pocus of Christianity, but you do believe in Jesus, right? It’s no different. Since when is speaking up for what you believe a mistake? If you recall, the revelator laments that the men and angels confronting the Lucifer Rebellion did not have the courage to assert themselves and claim their rights (53:3.4).   TUB lauds courageous prophets who attacked erroneous beliefs and fostered truth (97:4.2-4; 97:7.13).

   So I say it’s just too bad for you if you don’t like when I say that magic words aren’t necessary for the remembrance supper.  It turns out non-Catholic Christians also don’t believe magic literally turns wine into blood or bread into flesh.  I’m not alone there. In fact, I’d say most of the world thinks that transubstantiation is bogus.  And if some hypothetical person is offended because I, a UB reader, do not believe in magic, well, that’s their problem, not mine. Magic is not real. Jesus never taught magic. So I say, too bad, deal with it.  Encouraging people to live in a fantasy world is not helping them. The truth sets people free, but only if they want to be free. If they really want to live in cultural bondage after hearing the truth, that’s their free-will decision.  I’ll not stop them or judge them for it.

   Anyway, I think you should go back to your future mother-in-law and describe how much you love Jesus.  That is, if you do love Jesus.  Her heart might be touched by that.  Frankly, I don’t see how anyone could not be affected deeply by hearing someone describe their wholehearted devotion to Jesus, the Truth.  It’s a beautiful thing.

2. NN

   Nigel NunnParticipant
   Jan 4, 2018, 4:15 PM

   Hi Chuck — technically, “Christians” are doing their sincere best to trek through Paul’s maze of beliefs. You and Bonita are simply following Jesus. Can you somehow show your friends this?

   Recall back in message #29171 I mentioned that before men invented Christianity, Jesus was living an ideal religious life. This is the life that Jesus himself is recommending for us. Bonita has simply discovered, recognized, and chosen this living Way.

   Just think of it, a billion Christians personally and explicitly in love with our (local) universe creator; just a few misunderstandings in the way of discovering the Way.

   Talk about “quivering on the very brink…” ( 2082.7 195:9.2 )

   Nigel

3. C

   ColeParticipant
   Jan 4, 2018, 5:21 PM

   Chuck noted:

   Cole, that’s what I am afraid will happen here. When I start to explain the differences I’ll be shut out of the relationship either by my lady or my ladys’ mom. That is how important religion is to them. And I understand that that didn’t happen between you and your wife. How did you overcome the difference? How did she? Do you discuss your mutual differences or just let it lie? Do you partisapate in each others’ religious practices? EX. Church for you, UB related activities for her? If not what do you two do while the other (on both sides of the couple) are engaged in your varrious religious practices? EX. What does she do while you are in UB study group? What do you do while she is in church?

   How did we overcome the differences?  I think we agreed to not agree.  And it was left there.  We just do not discuss it.  I frequently go to church with her…..largely to support her…..there are really no churches that agree with my personal theological beliefs.  Soooo…. you  go forward and try to focus on the positives.  We are a vanguard, and THAT is a VERY difficult position to hold in a world that is largely opposed to the truths we espouse. I will say that the small Catholic church we attend is generally quite agreeable with regard to all but much of the theology.  But…..I recently had a discussion over lunch with a Catholic priest from Burma via the southern region of India.  I questioned him regarding the presence of spirit, soul, mind, personality in us mortals.  I was pleasantly surprised at his answers.  Next time I see him, I will encourage him to speak on these manners and thus (perhaps) enlighten his congregation.  IMO, most people are totally ignorant of these matters.

   Regarding attending services/meetings together: In the distant past, she went with me to one conference in Aspen, one picnic and then one study group meeting.  She did not seem to enjoy herself so I no longer request or suggest such anymore.  Relationships are largely a giving proposition….so I try to live by that mantra.  I do not attend study groups much any more.  Largely because of the distances involved.

   Regarding your statement to her mother that you follow God.  I would probably say to a person under the circumstances you describe something like: “I follow Jesus, who is my creator, and the Father in Heaven”.  Fundamentalist Christians have a great issue with where you stand on the question of who is Jesus and what do you believe about him.  If you disregard Jesus as you apparently did in your answer…they WILL note that in a negative manner (and, I would not discuss his relationship to the Trinity).

   In general regarding discussions with others not tuned to our beliefs: I would not dwell on the differences but the similarities.  But there is one exception to that.  Because the UB frequently tells us of the Paganism problem of Christianity, I believe we have some responsibility to let the world know that….with great gentleness.  Plant the meme.  Whenever I discuss religion with anyone, if the opportunity arises, I mention it as a problem with most religions.  And people that I encounter usually express some agreement after considering/hearing the truth of the matter. But I am not limited in that regard to just Catholicism.  ALL Christian faiths, Islam, Judaism and many other faiths are to some degree infected with Paganism.  I grew up in the Baptist and Lutheran faiths.  It is certainly there….in overdrive.  Atonement, probably our 2nd largest area of disagreement (IMO – and it is of course, related) is more difficult and I rarely discuss that….unless I perceive that the person is VERY open to the reflection necessary to dismiss error.

   And finally, I totally agree with Nigel.  Strive to be the kindest person that your friends/acquaintances know…and listen to them.  You will gain a magnetism that will draw people to your side.  They will look to be with you and hear what you have to say.  This is the most important approach to most interpersonal relations, IMO.

4. B

   BradlyParticipant
   Jan 4, 2018, 6:30 PM

   To my Christian family and friends I am known as a ‘Jesusonian’!  Most Christians are well aware of the conflicts and contradictions in the Bible (the Biblically literate that is)….the words and teachings of Christ are the foundation and core for Christian beliefs…first and foremost.  If one is literate ourselves with the Jesusonian gospel within the Bible, it is an easy bridge to build.  Jesus taught what I believe and what determines my faith, my priorities, my choices, and my destiny.

   Why fight with the cocoon holding the butterfly?  Learn and teach in fellowship with other Believers.  Not all that difficult a concept or practice.  Can’t believe the Fifth if you don’t believe the Fourth!!  And know it too.

   "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

5. C

   chucksmith1982Participant
   Jan 14, 2018, 4:19 AM

   Nigel, I wanted to craft a reply that would do your question justice. I put it to a fellow ub believer in my study group who has been living in the Bible belt her entire life and who is in her 60’s.  She also has traveled the world over the years as well. She has been a reader for 40 years or so. She said that she has been asked that question off and on for a while by people who don’t live in the Bible belt. Her answer is something like you have to actually live here to fully understand. She gave me an example of a friend of hers who lives in another part of the country. He can take an ub in any coffie shop and read it. There won’t be any problem with it because the people are more open minded. He can engage with them in conversation on spiritual subjects from the ub with no problem.

   Here however, it is another matter. If you aren’t a fully believing bible toting Christian you are considered a bit strange. In short, it won’t matter if I tell anyone here that I love and serve Jesus. I can tell them that all day long. If I tell them that I am not a bible believer but that I believe in the ub, even if they would let me explain what it was in the most basic form, it would not matter. I would still be an outsider. They would see the Jesus that I believe in as a false Jesus. To most people in the bible belt if it doesn’t come from the bible it might as well not exist. That is what I am dealing with. Persicution? No. Narrow mindedness? Yes. They don’t care that I love and serve God. All they care about is one question. Do you serve the god of the bible? Do you serve the Jesus of the bible? Do you believe every word in the bible literally?  Are you a fundamentalist Christian? Do you hold the same beliefs, more or less, that I do? Okay, I got carried away and wrote several questions. But my point is well made. To most people where I live if it doesn’t come out of the bible it is a cult. That includes all other world religions by the way. As my friend said, it is something that you actually have to experience to really understand.
   On another note, thanks to everyone who gave me advice on the matter. It has meant a lot and has been extremely helpful.

Reply on the current forum