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administration, I would like to formally lodge a complaint

47 posts · 8 participants · started Sep 6, 2017, 12:09 AM

  1. This is a request for this forum moderators to intervene in what has for years, but most recently, been an attach against my person on this forum, in that the Forum member Bradly is harassing me. I am requesting that you intervene. This is ridiculous.  I have attempted to match insult to insult, didn’t work, attempted to present reason and logic, in my online position, didn’t work, asked to present any arguments as or in a debate format, was refused, and told that anything I would present will be met with hostility, directed specifically against me personally.  I have attempted to present that this attitude reflects back to the Urantia Association, and since there has been no intervention by moderators here I must assume that Bradly’s conduct is condoned by the Association and the moderators.  Nevertheless, my privacy and personal information has been violated which is not validated, thereby having received other insults from others members do to Bradly’s stating that I am the worst of all mankind, and implied, through implication in his hostility, that it would be better that I was dead or should die.  Even if not specifically so stated, that is how I had perceived his attacks through his words, and wording.

    Therefore, I will take this directly to the Association, as well but, I do not anticipate a solution, thereby will I then take this matter to my attorney’s, whom I have been in council with, to see who can be held responsible for damages.

    Thank you in advance.

  2. My dear fellow readers and students of The Urantia Book,

    Any actions that the moderators take or fail to take in their role as maintainers of peace on this forum should not be seen as reflecting the attitude of Urantia Association. The rules that govern the conduct of forum participants, as stated on this website, have been formulated by the Association but the moderators take full responsibility for their interpretation and implementation of those rules when dealing with formal complaints. We have been criticised for being invisible and unresponsive when threads turn into personal attacks and feelings run high. The reality is that there are only two of us and we don’t always get to read every post in every thread. Consequently, we sometimes don’t become aware of a problem until we receive a formal complaint.

    BB, with respect to your specific complaint against Bradly, I believe you are justified in feeling “harassed”. Bradly, your formal apology to BB is most welcome and appreciated. As moderators, we live in hope that members will sort out their differences in a mature and Jesusonian manner. A Melchizedek of Nebadon made a pointed reference to Jesus’ love of men and his ability to defuse potential strife by patiently and sympathetically seeking the viewpoint and true motivation of one who may inspire irritation and resentment:

    In physical life the senses tell of the existence of things; mind discovers the reality of meanings; but the spiritual experience reveals to the individual the true values of life. These high levels of human living are attained in the supreme love of God and in the unselfish love of man. If you love your fellow men, you must have discovered their values. Jesus loved men so much because he placed such a high value upon them. You can best discover values in your associates by discovering their motivation. If some one irritates you, causes feelings of resentment, you should sympathetically seek to discern his viewpoint, his reasons for such objectionable conduct. If once you understand your neighbor, you will become tolerant, and this tolerance will grow into friendship and ripen into love. [100:4.4; 1098.1]

    To be fair, the vast majority of interactions between members on the forum are conducted in a spirit of friendship and mutual support. It is disappointing when we see disputes escalating into full-blown slanging matches. It is inevitable that misunderstandings will occur due to the inherent limitations of the social media format. It is easy to make negative assumptions about the ‘other’ based on their personality and communication styles. We might also feel offended by statements that we perceive as provocative and/or inflammatory; we may feel fully justified in righting a wrong, defending a truth, or fighting for a righteous cause. But we need to be careful about how we do this! Rodan gave us a timely warning about the hazards of engaging in a “battle for the right”. It often results in a “Pyrrhic victory”!

    Another requirement for the attainment of maturity is the co-operative adjustment of social groups to an ever-changing environment. The immature individual arouses the antagonisms of his fellows; the mature man wins the hearty co-operation of his associates, thereby many times multiplying the fruits of his life efforts.

    My philosophy tells me that there are times when I must fight, if need be, for the defense of my concept of righteousness, but I doubt not that the Master, with a more mature type of personality, would easily and gracefully gain an equal victory by his superior and winsome technique of tact and tolerance. All too often, when we battle for the right, it turns out that both the victor and the vanquished have sustained defeat. I heard the Master say only yesterday that the “wise man, when seeking entrance through the locked door, would not destroy the door but rather would seek for the key wherewith to unlock it.” Too often we engage in a fight merely to convince ourselves that we are not afraid. [160:3.3,4; 1778:1,2]

    So rather than take sides in a dispute, we as moderators would prefer to give counsel based on the precepts and principles of the Fifth Epochal Revelation and then hope that the parties involved will take them to heart and correct their own behaviour. If a member flagrantly or persistently contravenes the rules, we will implement the 3-strike policy regarding misconduct. First, a private warning; second a 30-day ban from the forum; third infraction within a year may result in the person being banned from the forum for a period of six months. We obviously don’t want to have to resort to such punitive methods.

    Would the readership prefer us to intervene in a thread as soon as we detect a deterioration in the decorum of the conversation?

    Feel free to offer your suggestions.

    Your fellow servant of the Master….

    Moderator 2

     

  3. …Would the readership prefer us to intervene in a thread as soon as we detect a deterioration in the decorum of the conversation? Feel free to offer your suggestions. Your fellow servant of the Master…. Moderator 2

    It would be preferable if every member of this Forum stick to one simple rule. Write about issues, the subject of the thread, not each other.

    Anytime the dialog drifts into an evaluation of another person, their character or motivations, it is in error. You may attack an idea, if you must attack something, but never the person expressing it.

    .

    Richard E Warren

  4. Too long ago to remember details but the moderators were asked to intervene then as well.  Bradly, honestly, I do not think you will change. You are set in your way based on the behavior you repeat with me every time we get into a debate; this has been going on for years now. Listen, we are not going to see eye to eye on what TUB states. You take a literal approach to the text and I choose to do otherwise. Why make it personal? That is what I do not get with you. You come across as a religious extremist, my dude. Seriously. People have a right to disagree with my beliefs and challenge them as what I post to the board is fair game. It’s the personal statements that we can do without. But like I said, based on how you have behaved with me over the years, I do not think you will change.
     .
    This board needs an ignore feature. That would solve a lot of problems. Administration, perhaps you could consider adding such feature to this forum. It is an effective tool. I have seen it work well on other forums. Participants have the option to ignore posts they deem harassing, argumentative and insulting to their own views on TUB.

    Based on BB’s assertion above that Bonita and I were responsible for…”I left the board a couple years ago because of Bradly and Bonita’s bullying and harassing.”, I went back to BB’s last topics from a couple of years ago to remind me of that which I did not recall, my or Bonita’s bullying and harassing BB….ever. I cannot find any evidence of such cause or complaint regarding his decision to leave us for a season of nearly 2.5 years. Indeed, I found just the opposite. So I look forward to those historical records which might lend credibility to his claim above. Indeed, the last 3-6 topics started by BB (pages 10-12 in General Discussion topics) were quite interesting and BB seemed pleased with both Bonita and myself and many other posters here for the discussion and references to the UB. Some did get contentious…but with one who has been blocked here 2 times (emanny, Sabinatu – the same person who changed identities within the same discussion and one who has posted as loucol, Manny, JohnnyBones, and now as toto – the Ankle Biter I call him – who has been kicked off and blocked at TB at least 5 times in 5 years) and with Midi….but not between Bonita or I and BB. The link below goes to an interesting and lengthy (and often contentious) discussion as a good example of the relationships back then. https://urassoc.arko.nyc/forums/topic/did-the-midwayers-narrate-church-history-as-war-in-heaven/ You will notice BB’s intensity to understand the UB’s contents and a variety of interesting topics he began in his quest for truth and fact in the contents of the UB. Something, over time, seems to have turned BB’s attention less toward understanding and discussion and more toward perceived, contrived, and hoped for contradictions in the UB. Don’t know what happened or is happening now….but Bonita and I stand wrongly accused by BB’s claim of being driven off by our brutality!! Something’s amiss here. :-(

     

    BB

  5. Exactly, Rick.

    …Would the readership prefer us to intervene in a thread as soon as we detect a deterioration in the decorum of the conversation? Feel free to offer your suggestions. Your fellow servant of the Master…. Moderator 2

    It would be preferable if every member of this Forum stick to one simple rule. Write about issues, the subject of the thread, not each other.

    Anytime the dialog drifts into an evaluation of another person, their character or motivations, it is in error. You may attack an idea, if you must attack something, but never the person expressing it.

    .

    BB

  6. Brooklyn_born wrote: Bradly, honestly, I do not think you will change. You are set in your way based on the behavior you repeat with me every time we get into a debate; this has been going on for years now.
    Brooklyn_born wrote: You come across as a religious extremist, my dude.
    Aren’t both of the above sentences harassing, argumentative and insulting personal attacks on Bradly?  Doesn’t he deserve an apology too?    Calling Bradly an extremist who will not change is no different than calling him a rigid, religious radical!  That’s personal!
  7. This is not a normal post about TUB, Bonita. This discussion is about personality conflicts on the board. I am stating my feelings about Bradly’s behavior toward me and what I have come to expect of him and my perception of him based on it. This thread is the appropriate place to air out these feelings. I hope that clears it up for you (although I doubt it since you’re just looking to justify his behavior smdh).
    Brooklyn_born wrote: Bradly, honestly, I do not think you will change. You are set in your way based on the behavior you repeat with me every time we get into a debate; this has been going on for years now.
    Brooklyn_born wrote: You come across as a religious extremist, my dude.
    Aren’t both of the above sentences harassing, argumentative and insulting personal attacks on Bradly? Doesn’t he deserve an apology too? Calling Bradly an extremist who will not change is no different than calling him a rigid, religious radical! That’s personal!

    BB

  8. It would be preferable if every member of this Forum stick to one simple rule. Write about issues, the subject of the thread, not each other.

    Anytime the dialog drifts into an evaluation of another person, their character or motivations, it is in error. You may attack an idea, if you must attack something, but never the person expressing it.

     

    My preference is in line with yours, Rick.  “Write about issues, the subject of the thread, not each other.”

    As to whether the moderators should be more visible?  No. The majority of the people who post here are seasoned readers.  Seasoned readers are conversant with the spirit of the teachings of the book – the very book and the very teachings this forum is devoted to study.  It is the seasoned readers themselves who should be the <moderators> here, because they well know the pitfalls of going out into the weeds with other readers!  It is foolish for a seasoned reader to get personally embroiled with another reader.  Becoming embroiled with someone, as this thread demonstrates, is evidence to me that all participants have taken the low road.  Seasoned readers should become expert in diffusing conflict.  We don’t have to agree with each other’s ideas.

     

    To reiterate, seasoned readers should become expert in diffusing conflict.  Your demeanor shows through your words.  Make peace, not war.  The peacemakers shall be called the sons of God.

    140:5.18 [Part IV]
    3. “Happy are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.” Jesus’ hearers were longing for military deliverance, not for peacemakers. But Jesus’ peace is not of the pacific and negative kind. In the face of trials and persecutions he said, “My peace I leave with you.” “Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” This is the peace that prevents ruinous conflicts. Personal peace integrates personality. Social peace prevents fear, greed, and anger. Political peace prevents race antagonisms, national suspicions, and war. Peacemaking is the cure of distrust and suspicion.
  9. I am stating my feelings about Bradly’s behavior toward me . . .

    This is not a psychological support group.  It’s a Urantia Book study group.  Your feelings and emotions are immaterial to the study of TUB.

    . . . and what I have come to expect of him and my perception of him based on it.

    Happiness comes from having fewer expectations regarding other people.  Happiness comes from lovingly serving other people.  Personally, my thoughts would be centered on how I can help the other person.

    I hope that clears it up for you (although I doubt it since you’re just looking to justify his behavior smdh).

    Another personal attack and a presumption of motivation.  My feelings are not hurt, but I would accept your apology.  My motivation is to describe what I see, which is the fact that BOTH parties are guilty of personal attacks and apologies from BOTH parties are in order.

     

  10. whatever you say, Bonita  :-) Anyhow, I am not apologizing to Bradly. I did him no harm. I will apologize to you for my last remark, however.

    I am stating my feelings about Bradly’s behavior toward me . . .

    This is not a psychological support group. It’s a Urantia Book study group. Your feelings and emotions are immaterial to the study of TUB.

    . . . and what I have come to expect of him and my perception of him based on it.

    Happiness comes from having fewer expectations regarding other people. Happiness comes from lovingly serving other people. Personally, my thoughts would be centered on how I can help the other person.

    I hope that clears it up for you (although I doubt it since you’re just looking to justify his behavior smdh).

    Another personal attack and a presumption of motivation. My feelings are not hurt, but I would accept your apology. My motivation is to describe what I see, which is the fact that BOTH parties are guilty of personal attacks and apologies from BOTH parties are in order.

    BB

  11. whatever you say, Bonita  Anyhow, I am not apologizing to Bradly. I did him no harm. I will apologize to you for my last remark, however.

    Thanks.  Accepted.

  12. whatever you say, Bonita :-) Anyhow, I am not apologizing to Bradly. I did him no harm. I will apologize to you for my last remark, however.

    I am stating my feelings about Bradly’s behavior toward me . . .

    This is not a psychological support group. It’s a Urantia Book study group. Your feelings and emotions are immaterial to the study of TUB.

    . . . and what I have come to expect of him and my perception of him based on it.

    Happiness comes from having fewer expectations regarding other people. Happiness comes from lovingly serving other people. Personally, my thoughts would be centered on how I can help the other person.

    I hope that clears it up for you (although I doubt it since you’re just looking to justify his behavior smdh).

    Another personal attack and a presumption of motivation. My feelings are not hurt, but I would accept your apology. My motivation is to describe what I see, which is the fact that BOTH parties are guilty of personal attacks and apologies from BOTH parties are in order.

     

    Hey BB…I also feel no need for any apology from you.  I am the source of and responsible for my own poor choices and bad behavior.  I do owe you an apology and hope for your forgiveness….but not your forgetfulness!  Hahaha.

    It is true, as you claim, that I am a literalist.  I really don’t understand any other form of study of the UB as the authors are quite specific and redundant in their claims that they wrote what the meant and meant what they wrote for the expressed purpose of reducing confusion and eliminating error.  If this is not true, then anyone can transform the Papers into endless fictions and confusions….and some certainly do.  I fear I inaccurately categorized your form of study and did thereby slander you and accuse you of that for which there is no evidence; and even if there were still did I transgress all good sense, form, and the spirit of the teachings we share here together.  It was inaccurate and unfair and unjust….there is no question of that.

    Anyway, it is my hope we may continue to study, learn, discuss, and debate without further personalizations on my own part.  You must discern the contents for yourself as we all must.  Best wishes in all things BB.  And please do hold my feet to the fire of my best intentions whenever I fail to express them sufficiently!!

     

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  13. This brief derailment brought to mind a painful but valuable experience for me:

    I used to (more frequently than now!) make mistakes and misunderstandings (about lots of things), but this was not the problem. The problem was I would then mistake my misunderstandings for my beliefs.  Thus when others would try to point out my error, it felt like they were attacking my beliefs! Which of course always led to that painful spiral down to tears before bedtime. The good news is that nowadays, when someone tries to help, I can much more quickly benefit from their input.

    Ah, experience — a wonderful thing!
    Nigel

  14. Apology accepted  :good:
    …
    My desire is that you, Bradly, be tolerant of other people’s views, even if they are or appear critical of TUB, and especially when these participants are not in violation of the board’s TOS with their posts. It is absolutely fine and expected to criticize my unorthodox and questionable claims on TUB. But the personal stuff, trying to discover ulterior motives has got to stop. It is a TOS violation, not to mention! For the record, I am not a UB literalist and I do believe it is a divinely inspired work like many other religious texts.
    whatever you say, Bonita :-) Anyhow, I am not apologizing to Bradly. I did him no harm. I will apologize to you for my last remark, however.

    I am stating my feelings about Bradly’s behavior toward me . . .

    This is not a psychological support group. It’s a Urantia Book study group. Your feelings and emotions are immaterial to the study of TUB.

    . . . and what I have come to expect of him and my perception of him based on it.

    Happiness comes from having fewer expectations regarding other people. Happiness comes from lovingly serving other people. Personally, my thoughts would be centered on how I can help the other person.

    I hope that clears it up for you (although I doubt it since you’re just looking to justify his behavior smdh).

    Another personal attack and a presumption of motivation. My feelings are not hurt, but I would accept your apology. My motivation is to describe what I see, which is the fact that BOTH parties are guilty of personal attacks and apologies from BOTH parties are in order.

    Hey BB…I also feel no need for any apology from you. I am the source of and responsible for my own poor choices and bad behavior. I do owe you an apology and hope for your forgiveness….but not your forgetfulness! Hahaha. It is true, as you claim, that I am a literalist. I really don’t understand any other form of study of the UB as the authors are quite specific and redundant in their claims that they wrote what the meant and meant what they wrote for the expressed purpose of reducing confusion and eliminating error. If this is not true, then anyone can transform the Papers into endless fictions and confusions….and some certainly do. I fear I inaccurately categorized your form of study and did thereby slander you and accuse you of that for which there is no evidence; and even if there were still did I transgress all good sense, form, and the spirit of the teachings we share here together. It was inaccurate and unfair and unjust….there is no question of that. Anyway, it is my hope we may continue to study, learn, discuss, and debate without further personalizations on my own part. You must discern the contents for yourself as we all must. Best wishes in all things BB. And please do hold my feet to the fire of my best intentions whenever I fail to express them sufficiently!!

    BB

  15. Where below does it say we are not supposed to question motives and intentions?  According to TUB, that’s the only way to learn to love one another.  Human beings have to be known in order to be loved.  Knowing motives and intentions is part of that.

    In your use of this Forum you agree to abide by the following rules:

    • Be kind, fair, respectful and courteous at all times.

    • Please abide by the purpose of this Forum which is dedicated to the in-depth study of The Urantia Book and the dissemination of its teachings.

    • Personal attacks, foul language, or any content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws are not permitted.

    • The Association’s Policy on Channeling applies to this Forum.

    • Solicitation of funds for organizations other than Urantia Association International or Urantia Foundation must be submitted to the Association’s Central Office for review and approval before posting.

    • Participants are subject to a 3-strike policy regarding misconduct. First, a private warning; second a 30-day ban from the forum; third infraction within a year may result in loss of participation.

  16. It is absolutely fine and expected to criticize my unorthodox and questionable claims on TUB. But the personal stuff, trying to discover ulterior motives has got to stop.

    Thanks for accepting my apology BB….and the permission to “….criticize my unorthodox and questionable claims on TUB.”  Although my preferred method is to allow your questionable claims to be contrasted – or contradicted – by the text of the UB authors directly, as has so often been the case.

    I will disappoint your hopes and demand to ignore motives for topics and content posted.  Indeed, this request seems very odd considering your own recent posts and your recommendation of critical/analytical reading of the words of others.  A site and form of study I found very accurate and helpful….however, it soon became clear that you either do not understand the techniques you recommended to the rest of us here or you don’t really have an interest in that technique??  Accurately restating text read objectively, then restating subjectively, and then discerning the intent, motives, perspective, and prejudice of the author….all to learn how better to compose one’s own writing and improve the clarity of that which we write.

    https://urassoc.arko.nyc/forums/topic/creativecritical-reading-as-an-approach-to-comprehending-ub/

    http://www.criticalreading.com/index.html

    So I must confess my confusion of this apparent contradiction.  No matter…I will continue to apply the critical reading/analysis you have previously recommended to us all here.  However, calling you a Wanna Be Debunker was uncalled for and violates the rules of the Forum and that is what I apologized for….sincerely.  But motives and agendas remain on the table for me.

    ;-)

     

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  17. To put it in simple terms, avoid personal attacks, harassment, and stalking which really drive (and have driven) people away. Otherwise, things should be fine.

    It is absolutely fine and expected to criticize my unorthodox and questionable claims on TUB. But the personal stuff, trying to discover ulterior motives has got to stop.

    Thanks for accepting my apology BB….and the permission to “….criticize my unorthodox and questionable claims on TUB.” Although my preferred method is to allow your questionable claims to be contrasted – or contradicted – by the text of the UB authors directly, as has so often been the case. I will disappoint your hopes and demand to ignore motives for topics and content posted. Indeed, this request seems very odd considering your own recent posts and your recommendation of critical/analytical reading of the words of others. A site and form of study I found very accurate and helpful….however, it soon became clear that you either do not understand the techniques you recommended to the rest of us here or you don’t really have an interest in that technique?? Accurately restating text read objectively, then restating subjectively, and then discerning the intent, motives, perspective, and prejudice of the author….all to learn how better to compose one’s own writing and improve the clarity of that which we write. https://urassoc.arko.nyc/forums/topic/creativecritical-reading-as-an-approach-to-comprehending-ub/http://www.criticalreading.com/index.html So I must confess my confusion of this apparent contradiction. No matter…I will continue to apply the critical reading/analysis you have previously recommended to us all here. However, calling you a Wanna Be Debunker was uncalled for and violates the rules of the Forum and that is what I apologized for….sincerely. But motives and agendas remain on the table for me. ;-)

    BB

  18. To put it in simple terms, avoid personal attacks, harassment, and stalking which really drive (and have driven) people away. Otherwise, things should be fine.

    That works both ways.

  19. Of course it does! But obviously, Bradly recently infracted TOS and was reported. That is why this thread made him the subject of the infraction.

    To put it in simple terms, avoid personal attacks, harassment, and stalking which really drive (and have driven) people away. Otherwise, things should be fine.

    That works both ways.

    BB

  20. So now I am accused of driving readers and students of the Revelation away from here?  Curious claim.  Care to name them?  And I’m still awaiting those posts from 2+ years ago that you and I had any issues or misunderstandings which somehow resulted in your departure back then….indeed my research of our last dozen+ exchanges shows nothing of the sort.  Perhaps you might provide the topic(s) and post #’s which might lend credibility to your assertions?

    While you have every right to lodge a complaint, especially a legitimate one as here, you do not have license thereby to slander or defame another’s character by that right of complaint….and while making such a complaint.  There are those who post here and at TB who lack sincerity and well demonstrate that lack;  others have a motive and intent to contradict the UB to add confusions, doubt, and fear in others;  but I do not recall EVER be confrontational with ANY sincere student of the text whether they understand it or agree with it.

    While I am a literalist and one who believes the claims of the authors, I don’t require that of any other student…and say so often.  But the book says what it says….and I’ll continue to point out the claims of others which directly contradict the text…..that’s a form of study for the rational and sincere student who seeks knowledge and understanding.  You may wish to visit your own advice BB.

    :good:

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

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