What is the Ego

43 posts · 5 participants · started Aug 14, 2014, 1:58 AM

1. T

   TUBParticipant
   Aug 15, 2014, 12:54 AM

   And Scott, I do not follow your assumption that the word ‘ego’ as it appears in the UB may be simply swapped out for the revelator’s other word, ‘selfhood.’ By doing so you have insinuated the existence of revealed teachings which I’m not sure actually exist.

   I never swapped out the word selfhood with ego. I swapped out the word ego with self. Selfhood and self are two different things right. Look at the way the authors word this sentence. They use ego interchangeably with self. If you don’t believe my interpretation I advice taking this sentence to someone who is unbiased and does not read TUB. See if they read this sentence the same way.

   ^{1229.7) 112:2.20} The material self, the ego-entity of human identity, is dependent during the physical life on the continuing function of the material life vehicle, on the continued existence of the unbalanced equilibrium of energies and intellect which, on Urantia, has been given the name life.

   Also the word ego in the English dictionary quite literally means self. So the way the authors use the word fits the English language perfectly. Obviously the authors are not using the word ego in a negative sense or else they would not say things like prayer is a great way to elevate ones ego. In this quote below the authors tell us that it is the human ego that is looking for aid from the Mystery Monitor. I think it becomes  obvious that the authors are use the word ego interchangeably with self.

   997.3)^91:3.5 Aside from all that is superself in the experience of praying, it should be remembered that ethical prayer is a splendid way to elevate one’s ego and reinforce the self for better living and higher attainment. Prayer induces the human ego to look both ways for help: for material aid to the subconscious reservoir of mortal experience, for inspiration and guidance to the superconscious borders of the contact of the material with the spiritual, with the Mystery Monitor.

   17 – (91:6.4) Prayer, even as a purely human practice, a dialogue with one’s alter ego, constitutes a technique of the most efficient approach to the realization of those reserve powers of human nature which are stored and conserved in the unconscious realms of the human mind.

2. R

   ReaderParticipant
   Aug 15, 2014, 6:11 AM

   Scott, this elevation of ego which you equate with reinforcement of self is clearly distinguished by our authors from all that is superself in man 91:3:5

   And forget about references to the alter ego – they are one and all descriptive of a pure fiction or at best a fictitious symbol 91:3:4 which nowhere in our book is given the substance of a reality – always it is a mere makeshift in the religious life of a child and a race 91:3:1, 91:3:3

   And dialogue with this fictitious alter ego is characterized as a purely human practice 91:6:4

   Meanwhile even the whole early religious reality of beneficient beings conceived by humans as enhancing social values and moral ideals is qualified as superhuman and distinct from the ego 91:1:4

   the ego is equated with the self only as it is conceived independently of God 103:2:10

   The ego is more strongly identified not with self in any positive sense but with self-seeking of the kind which is in conflict with the indwelling spirit and an obstruction to true worship, the very opposite of the practice of the presence of God which eventuates in the emergence of the brotherhood of man 103:4:1

   By contrast, the impulse to deny something to ‘the ego’ for the benefit of one’s neighbor is characterized as the very idea-ideal of doing good to others 103:5:2 which has culminated in the teachings of Jesus

   The authors talk about ‘national egos’ and ‘racial egotism’ 93:9:9; in the same sense they refer to a ‘religious ego’ – which they are quick to assert was not functioning in Jesus 196:0:6 because “his spiritual exaltation was a wholly unconscious and spontaneous soul expression of his personal experience with God.”

   What is more, any exaltation of the ego is characterized as an illness or spell requiring a ‘divine antidote’ 48:4:15

   ego dignity causes wear and tear resulting in loss of energy 48:6:37 ‘male ego’ is a quality elevated by the exaltation of war 84:3:4

   Urantian education cannot become world-wide, idealistic, self-realizing or cosmic grasping as long as it is ego exalting 71:7:3

   ‘vanity and ego’ are linked together as incapable of full gratification without disaster to success of marriage and home building 83:7:6

   ‘ego-will’ is nothing but ‘multiform contentions of the ego cravings‘ which are adverse to the budding social consciousness – and wholly apart from other-than-self-will 103:5:4

   The ego is equated with no aspect of the higher self but is represented as congeries of self-desires opposed to its best interests and against all human happiness except when coordinated and reconciled by the unified will of the integrating and supervising personality 103:5:5

   If anything it is no more than “the natural expansion of emotional impulses” inimical to the moral growth of unselfish urges predicated on spiritual insight — genuine religious reflection. 103:5:5

   Again, the ‘ego-entity of human identity’ is explicitly called the material self 112:2:20, a thing dependent during the physical life on the continuing function of the material life vehicle of unbalanced equilibrium of energies and intellect. Meanwhile selfhood of survival value, selfhood that can transcend the experience of death is not depicted as evolved from ego but by the act of establishing “a potential transfer of the seat of the identity of the evolving personality from the transient life vehicle — the material body — to the more enduring and immortal nature of the morontia soul and on beyond to those levels whereon the soul becomes infused with, and eventually attains the status of, spirit reality. This actual transfer from material association to morontia identification is effected by the sincerity, persistence, and steadfastness of the God-seeking decisions of the human creature.”

   -Reader

3. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Aug 15, 2014, 12:18 PM

   Bradly wrote: And I was trying to relate the UB to Freud’s construct wherein the ego bridges/unites the id, instinctual/animal mind with the super-ego, or spirit directed super-conscious mind which touches the soul and TA.

   I’ve always preferred the Jungian definition of ego.  Jung did not connect the conscious ego with the unconscious mind (id & superego), and I have to agree.

   “Despite the unlimited extent of its bases, the ego is never more and never less than consciousness as a whole” (Jung, 1969: par. 7)

   I think it’s important to separate the psychological definition of the word ego from the metaphysical definition.

   1. Metaphysical: the “I” or self of any person; a person as thinking, feeling, and willing; a person distinguishing itself from the selves of others and from objects of its thought.

   2.Psychological:  the part of the psychic apparatus that experiences and reacts to the outside world and thus mediates between the individual needs and the demands of the social and physical environment.

4. B

   BradlyParticipant
   Aug 15, 2014, 12:26 PM

   Thank you Reader.  Excellent presentation of both the text and, I think, its meaning.  I agree the ego is a transitory device which has an important function on the material level and is also a dangerous and devious sense of self when it remains entrenched as the seat of our identity.  I am no fan of Freud and did not intend to exalt his evolutionary and limited theory of mind structure or function.  Scott’s link to psychosynthesis is far more interesting, if also another evolutionary step that is less accurate than the presentation of mind in the UB.  But it is interesting to me how the reasoning and observation of mortal mind came to the conclusions that there is certainly a “super” or “soul” mind within that does or can transcend our ego consciousness and that ego needs such transcendence to achieve our  natural “potential”.

   I think it is the ego that allows the mortal or human material mind to rise above the complacency and brutality of animal mind to, eventually, discover the value of socialization and the lowest level of the golden rule….ethics which serve self – cooperative dependence for mutual benefit – the arrival of self “control”.  And that discovers affection and becomes “infected” by love – a dilemma and conflict, no doubt, for the ego to grapple with as the mind becomes attenuated to this divine gift.  For, I think, it is love that first challenges the ego in the name of self “sacrifice”.  Now there are moral choices in-mind which require the transcendence of the ego-mind and those choices bring to bear the influences of the higher adjutants to mortal free will choice.

   Now the mortal mind can begin to recognize the results/experience/benefits/fruits of better choices that are not self centered – wisdom arrives.  The Spirit within is discovered….or at least activated in new ways I think.  We begin the transfer or are now capable of transferring the seat of our identity to this spirit led mind that discerns the higher mind.  Connections are made which allow, fuel, and facilitate this natural transition and transfer of motivation and choice making.  It is not ego that is thusly found, it is spirit, and only by loosening the grip of ego on self can we complete this transition by putting the new higher self in charge and control of the ego.

   An interesting issue to consider is the absolute essence of a self without an ego.  Certainly Lucifer has an ego or something very similar to ego that still allows for self exaltation and self deception.  We do not automatically, as morontia minded survivors, lose this capacity for self love.  So if ego dies with mortal body and mind, what then, in morontia mind, still allows such self love to continue?

   Thanks all….interesting topic.

    

   "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

5. B

   BradlyParticipant
   Aug 15, 2014, 12:33 PM

   Hi Bonita…we posted at the same time.  I like the concept of  device or apparatus – the ego is not me.  It is a functional vehicle for the discovery of me….or the potential me.

   "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

6. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Aug 15, 2014, 1:46 PM

   Reader wrote:  I still think I could find plenty of use for a word like ego if it represented specifically all that portion of intellect which is doomed to a single existence in time and space, all the scaffolding of animal mind which is not a ‘potentially spirit phase of mortal mind’ (1.3.7).

   Only the material ego is doomed to a single existence.  If you think that ego doesn’t exist on the morontia level, I think you might be mistaken.  Self-exaltation is a problem of the ego and we have a very clear example of self-exaltation in Lucifer.  The entire ascension career is geared toward socialization of the personality which is designed to  prevent exaltation of the self/ego.  Likewise, humor is the antidote to self-exaltation of the ego and the reversion technique of humor follows us all the way to Paradise until we can no longer entertain such erroneous concepts of self.

   Relevant quotes: 48:4.15; 56:10.14; 67:1.2; 132:2.6
7. R

   ReaderParticipant
   Aug 15, 2014, 2:34 PM

   Good thoughts, Bradly and Bonita – I recognize that morontia experience might be characterized by a persistent tendency to exalt that which is false about ourselves and therefore cannot be exalted without entertaining error.

   And I believe there are many fond errors we have gotten into the habit of entertaining about the reality we truly are.

   But I am not convinced that the ego is any more than an ’embodiment of error’ and only in this sense is called a material entity. To say that a fallen angel of the local universes has a problem with an ego-complex is one thing. To suggest that this complex itself has eternal reality or (metaphysical) being is another.

   Still thinking…

   -Reader

    

8. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Aug 15, 2014, 2:35 PM

   Reader wrote:  And forget about references to the alter ego – they are one and all descriptive of a pure fiction or at best a fictitious symbol 91:3:4 which nowhere in our book is given the substance of a reality – always it is a mere makeshift in the religious life of a child and a race 91:3:1, 91:3:3

   The quote you are citing (91:3.4), describes the evolution of what was once fictitious into a “bona fide consciousness of the reality of the eternal God . . .”  The alter-ego becomes a reality in those who allow it to evolve through genuine prayer and worship.

   91:3.4 The simple prayer of faith evidences a mighty evolution in human experience whereby the ancient conversations with the fictitious symbol of the alter ego of primitive religion have become exalted to the level of communion with the spirit of the Infinite and to that of a bona fide consciousness of the reality of the eternal God and Paradise Father of all intelligent creation.

   Reader wrote:

   And dialogue with this fictitious alter ego is characterized as a purely human practice 91:6:4

   Then, in quote 91:3.7 we are told that the alter ego is the more effective and practical method for attaining enlightened prayer.  The alter ego, properly utilized in prayer, evolves from fiction to a “real and genuine divine alter ego”.  Furthermore, this effective and practical approach to the presence of the Adjuster is designed so “that man can talk face to face” with God.  Talking face to face with God is a dialogue that has evolved from fiction to reality.

   91:3.7 Enlightened prayer must recognize not only an external and personal God but also an internal and impersonal Divinity, the indwelling Adjuster. It is altogether fitting that man, when he prays, should strive to grasp the concept of the Universal Father on Paradise; but the more effective technique for most practical purposes will be to revert to the concept of a near-by alter ego, just as the primitive mind was wont to do, and then to recognize that the idea of this alter ego has evolved from a mere fiction to the truth of God’s indwelling mortal man in the factual presence of the Adjuster so that man can talk face to face, as it were, with a real and genuine and divine alter ego that indwells him and is the very presence and essence of the living God, the Universal Father.

9. R

   ReaderParticipant
   Aug 15, 2014, 2:40 PM

   the ego may represent in the view of the authors nothing more than a label for every kind of tendency that obstructs the growth of the Supreme.

10. B

    BonitaParticipant
    Aug 15, 2014, 2:51 PM

    Bradly wrote:

    I agree the ego is a transitory device which has an important function on the material level and is also a dangerous and devious sense of self when it remains entrenched as the seat of our identity.  . . . It is not ego that is thusly found, it is spirit, and only by loosening the grip of ego on self can we complete this transition by putting the new higher self in charge and control of the ego.

    I think people frequently conflate the ego with behavior, assigning all negative behavior to ego influence and all altruistic behavior to divine influence.  Ego=bad; divine=good.  Seems simple enough and many leave it right there.  But, ego can actually behave one way or the other; it can behave badly or righteously.  Either way, it is still ego.  Ego is merely one’s sense of self.  Personality will always have this sense of self as part of self-consciousness.  It is the character of the ego which evolves in relation to spirit. The only way to get rid of ego altogether is to become completely selfless, not just in behavior, but in all realms of being/selfhood.  I think only God does that.

11. B

    BonitaParticipant
    Aug 15, 2014, 3:01 PM

    Bradly wrote:  I like the concept of  device or apparatus – the ego is not me.  It is a functional vehicle for the discovery of me….or the potential me.

    Sorry, I don’t like it.  I think the ego is you.  The functional vehicle for the discovery of the potential you is the soul, your real ego. I don’t think it’s possible to evolve on any level without an ego, a sense of self.  That’s the way I see it.
12. B

    BonitaParticipant
    Aug 15, 2014, 3:05 PM

    Reader wrote:  the ego may represent in the view of the authors nothing more than a label for every kind of tendency that obstructs the growth of the Supreme.

    Then what is the praying ego?  If the praying ego is obstructing growth of the Supreme then I’ve wasted my life.

    91:2.2 Prayer has always indicated positive action by the praying ego; it has been always psychic and sometimes spiritual.

    91:3.3 As it is conceived by successive generations of praying mortals, the alter ego evolves up through ghosts, fetishes, and spirits to polytheistic gods, and eventually to the One God, a divine being embodying the highest ideals and the loftiest aspirations of the praying ego. And thus does prayer function as the most potent agency of religion in the conservation of the highest values and ideals of those who pray. From the moment of the conceiving of an alter ego to the appearance of the concept of a divine and heavenly Father, prayer is always a socializing, moralizing, and spiritualizing practice.

13. B

    BradlyParticipant
    Aug 15, 2014, 3:23 PM

    Reader wrote:

    the ego may represent in the view of the authors nothing more than a label for every kind of tendency that obstructs the growth of the Supreme.

    Me:  I don’t think so.  Ego is essential.  Why do mortals have ego but not animals?  Animals have sex drive and stomach hunger for perpetuation.  Human ego delivers socialization – mutual dependence and ethics and creative problem solving.  Ego yearns and is love responsive.  Ego allows for and provides some means for love activation and eventual morality beyond ethics.  Ego can realize the self serving results of ego control and cooperative potential.  Mind can now be opened to spirit ministry.  The I Am becomes We Are and I am within the We.  Ego remains functional during and even after the transfer of identity begins and the Spirit is realized in mind I think.  And at that point, the ego can allow for its lack of relative importance compared to the love of others and the service of mercy ministry.  I don’t understand it however.  And I think that is an important element too….even without facts or knowledge, the ego can tame itself in aspiration of meaning and value and truth, beauty, and goodness.  Puzzling.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

14. T

    TUBParticipant
    Aug 15, 2014, 3:41 PM

    Reader if you research the word Ego, you will find that it quite literally means self in the dictionary. Only you can pray. You are your (self).  You have this negative view of the ego for some reason. I think what you are thinking of in your head is an egotism. Or egocentric. These are bad attitudes that the ego can have that can be very harmful. This is usually what people actually mean they say someone has a ego, they are talking about an egotism. But that’s not the same thing as ego.

    91:2.2 Prayer has always indicated positive action by the praying ego; it has been always psychic and sometimes spiritual.

     

    An ego, an identity and a self are all the same thing. I don’t think that a personal self is quite the same thing as a animal origin self though.
15. B

    BradlyParticipant
    Aug 15, 2014, 3:46 PM

    Just want to express my gratitude here for all of you and this place which allows me to “triangulate” context into far greater perspective on complexities that I could not breach without so many other perspectives.  What a marvelous example of student teaching other student teachers.  I may not have as firm a grasp on understanding as some, but I do now understand more and better than ever before.  Thanks to all.

    On the subject of ego or self assertion beyond the material and mortal mind:

     

    (602.5) 53:2.2 There were no peculiar or special conditions in the system of Satania which suggested or favored rebellion. It is our belief that the idea took origin and form in Lucifer’s mind, and that he might have instigated such a rebellion no matter where he might have been stationed. Lucifer first announced his plans to Satan, but it required several months to corrupt the mind of his able and brilliant associate. However, when once converted to the rebel theories, he became a bold and earnest advocate of “self-assertion and liberty.”

    (602.6) 53:2.3 No one ever suggested rebellion to Lucifer. The idea of self-assertion in opposition to the will of Michael and to the plans of the Universal Father, as they are represented in Michael, had its origin in his own mind. His relations with the Creator Son had been intimate and always cordial. At no time prior to the exaltation of his own mind did Lucifer openly express dissatisfaction about the universe administration. Notwithstanding his silence, for more than one hundred years of standard time the Union of Days on Salvington had been reflectivating to Uversa that all was not at peace in Lucifer’s mind. This information was also communicated to the Creator Son and the Constellation Fathers of Norlatiadek.

    (602.7) 53:2.4 Throughout this period Lucifer became increasingly critical of the entire plan of universe administration but always professed wholehearted loyalty to the Supreme Rulers. His first outspoken disloyalty was manifested on the occasion of a visit of Gabriel to Jerusem just a few days before the open proclamation of the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. Gabriel was so profoundly impressed with the certainty of the impending outbreak that he went direct to Edentia to confer with the Constellation Fathers regarding the measures to be employed in case of open rebellion.

    (603.1) 53:2.5 It is very difficult to point out the exact cause or causes which finally culminated in the Lucifer rebellion. We are certain of only one thing, and that is: Whatever these first beginnings were, they had their origin in Lucifer’s mind. There must have been a pride of self that nourished itself to the point of self-deception, so that Lucifer for a time really persuaded himself that his contemplation of rebellion was actually for the good of the system, if not of the universe. By the time his plans had developed to the point of disillusionment, no doubt he had gone too far for his original and mischief-making pride to permit him to stop. At some point in this experience he became insincere, and evil evolved into deliberate and willful sin.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

16. T

    TUBParticipant
    Aug 15, 2014, 3:52 PM

    There must have been a pride of self that nourished itself to the point of self-deception, so that Lucifer for a time really persuaded himself that his contemplation of rebellion was actually for the good of the system, if not of the universe

    In other words he developed an egotism or egocentric viewpoint.

17. B

    BonitaParticipant
    Aug 15, 2014, 3:55 PM

    Bradly wrote:  Why do mortals have ego but not animals?

    Because animals do not have personality.  A sense of self comes with the self-consciousness of personality.  The free-will choice that also accompanies personality determines what becomes of the self (ego). Animals don’t have that either.  When the personality begins to sense, or become conscious of reality, it tends to mold its sense of self (ego) in alignment with that reality, if not prevented by resistance.   So often people equate this resistance to the ego alone, a mischievous imp trying to cloud reality all by himself, the devil in us who makes us do things. But resistance is really due to identification with erroneous thinking which results in erroneous behavior, a maladjustment to reality.

    Potential ego is divine, actual ego can either way because we are dual natured beings.  Animals are not dual natured and do not face this dilemma.  We mortals will always have a dual nature, human and Adjuster, but eventually, with one will.  Even after fusion the Adjuster continues to impart new meanings and values to us depending on our level of universe of existence.  The Adjuster will continue to be the repository for potential within us for all eternity and we will continue to have to choose based upon this sense of our divine self.

    p381:03 In every mortal there exists a dual nature: the inheritance of animal tendencies and the high urge of spirit endowment. During the short life you live on Urantia, these two diverse and opposing urges can seldom be fully reconciled; they can hardly be harmonized and unified; but throughout your lifetime the combined Spirit ever ministers to assist you in subjecting the flesh more and more to the leading of the Spirit. 

18. T

    TUBParticipant
    Aug 15, 2014, 4:05 PM

    If an ego was something bad, surely the authors wouldn’t mention praying to an alter ego, or elevating ones ego, or praying with the ego. They obviously mean ego in the positive sense, and in the dictionary there is a positive connotation there.

     

    http://www.vocabulary.com definition of ego…..

     

    ego

    Your ego is your conscious mind, the part of your identity that you consider your “self.” If you say someone has “a big ego,” then you are saying he is too full of himself.

     

     http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ego

    Ego

    the self especially as contrasted with another self or the world

    I think the reason the authors use the word ego in the case of prayer is because they are trying to contrast 2 selves. It wouldn’t really make sense to say alter-self, but to say alter-ego it becomes easier to get their point across.

19. R

    ReaderParticipant
    Aug 15, 2014, 8:39 PM

    Scott, my list of citations represents over 90% of the 25 places in the book that mention ego, and all of them are pretty clearly negative.

20. T

    TUBParticipant
    Aug 16, 2014, 12:39 AM

    Scott, my list of citations represents over 90% of the 25 places in the book that mention ego, and all of them are pretty clearly negative

    I disagree.

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