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The thing I would most like the world to know from the Urantia Book is…

25 posts · 6 participants · started Jul 4, 2019, 2:47 PM

Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jul 4, 2019, 2:47 PM
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Here we are with this celestially indited revelation, 2097 magnificent pages of it, while most of the world is floundering in a terrible and conflicted ignorance as to the meaning, value, and purpose of life, drifting from one bad solution to another, progressing a step and then retrogressing 3/4 of it. Revelation was intended to fix that, no? Or at least correct our course in a measure until the next Son descends from above.

.If just one thing from the UB could somehow be known to all Urantia’s peoples at an early age, I would choose this: God must be loved to be known. It follows that (paraphrasing): ‘…a loving person cannot reveal him or herself to an unloving person.’ This was said 400 years ago by a French philosopher. Now the revelators have confirmed what Pascal knew four centuries before the UB, that everyone can know God by loving God.

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…It is literally true, “Human things must be known in order to be loved, but divine things must be loved in order to be known.” 102:1:0 (1118.4)

Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Jul 4, 2019, 5:52 PM
I would want them to come to realize that the Bible is not a history book.
AndréParticipant
Jul 5, 2019, 8:18 AM
Hi,

Rick on another post Mark pinpoint “God must be loved to be known” are not found in TUB !

Asserting “God must be know to be loved”.

~~Now the revelators have confirmed what Pascal knew four centuries before the UB, that everyone can know God by loving God.~~

“Just as all things speak about God to those that know Him, and reveal Him to those that love Him, they also hide Him from all those that neither seek nor know Him.”
― Blaise Pascal
GeneParticipant
Jul 5, 2019, 4:21 PM
There is freedom from the prison of traditional monotheism in this revelation.

There is only one First Source and Center of all things – God the Universal Father is that person – but:

It is very gratifying to become aware of the unimaginable extent of beings that this God the Father has manifested. Through these beings he has deligated all that he could possibly deligate.

Rick says:

“If just one thing from the UB could somehow be known to all Urantia’s peoples at an early age, I would choose this: God must be loved to be known. It follows that (paraphrasing): ‘…a loving person cannot reveal him or herself to an unloving person.’ This was said 400 years ago by a French philosopher. Now the revelators have confirmed what Pascal knew four centuries before the UB, that everyone can know God by loving God..

…It is literally true, “Human things must be known in order to be loved, but divine things must be loved in order to be known.” 102:1:0 (1118.4)”

The text reveals not only God the Father as existential Diety but also God the Supreme/ God the Sevenfold as experiential diety. What a new concept.

Is it really possible that we as experiental beings can KNOW an existential God?

Check this out from paper 56:

^56:8.2 Through the ministry of the indwelling Adjusters the finaliters are enabled to find the Universal Father, but it is by these techniques of experience that such finaliters come really to know the Supreme Being, and they are destined to the service and the revelation of this Supreme Deity in and to the future universes of outer space.

This tells us that even as finaliters we cannot KNOW this God the Father – the Universal Father. We can only FIND or recognize him. But we can KNOW God the Supreme, finaliters can even reveal this God of experience.

We can connect with this God the Universal Father through his personality circuit because we are all persons and we can love and worship him but can we really KNOW him? I dont think so.

A finaliter can know one aspect of God the Universal Father – that being God the Supreme, and can recognize him as a person but know him, not possible.
BradlyParticipant
Jul 6, 2019, 12:41 PM
So many things…..

Has to be three….how big it all is, how populated it all is, and how safe and friendly it all is .

I know , I know…can’t help it.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jul 6, 2019, 1:05 PM

Bonita wrote:

I would want them to come to realize that the Bible is not a history book.

Nor a book of science.

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Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jul 6, 2019, 1:08 PM

andré wrote:

Hi, Rick on another post Mark pinpoint “God must be loved to be known” are not found in TUB ! Asserting “God must be know to be loved”. ~~Now the revelators have confirmed what Pascal knew four centuries before the UB, that everyone can know God by loving God.~~

“Just as all things speak about God to those that know Him, and reveal Him to those that love Him, they also hide Him from all those that neither seek nor know Him.” ― Blaise Pascal

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Thanks Andre. What a mind for so long ago, Pascal’s.

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Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jul 6, 2019, 1:30 PM

Gene wrote:

There is freedom from the prison of traditional monotheism in this revelation. There is only one First Source and Center of all things – God the Universal Father is that person – but: It is very gratifying to become aware of the unimaginable extent of beings that this God the Father has manifested. Through these beings he has delegated all that he could possibly delegate. Rick says: “If just one thing from the UB could somehow be known to all Urantia’s peoples at an early age, I would choose this: God must be loved to be known. It follows that (paraphrasing): ‘…a loving person cannot reveal him or herself to an unloving person.’ This was said 400 years ago by a French philosopher. Now the revelators have confirmed what Pascal knew four centuries before the UB, that everyone can know God by loving God.. …It is literally true, “Human things must be known in order to be loved, but divine things must be loved in order to be known.” 102:1:0 (1118.4)”

The text reveals not only God the Father as existential Diety but also God the Supreme/ God the Sevenfold as experiential diety. What a new concept. Is it really possible that we as experiental beings can KNOW an existential God? Check this out from paper 56: ^56:8.2 Through the ministry of the indwelling Adjusters the finaliters are enabled to find the Universal Father, but it is by these techniques of experience that such finaliters come really to know the Supreme Being, and they are destined to the service and the revelation of this Supreme Deity in and to the future universes of outer space. This tells us that even as finaliters we cannot KNOW this God the Father – the Universal Father. We can only FIND or recognize him. But we can KNOW God the Supreme, finaliters can even reveal this God of experience. We can connect with this God the Universal Father through his personality circuit because we are all persons and we can love and worship him but can we really KNOW him? I dont think so. A finaliter can know one aspect of God the Universal Father – that being God the Supreme, and can recognize him as a person but know him, not possible.

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Good points all, Gene. I failed to mention that I think Pascal, and the UB authors, are referring to the Adjuster, God the Indweller, not the First Source and Center when they declare: God must be loved to be known. And I believe we can know God as a person, tho he may also be an architect, an artist, a cosmic designer and innovator (and so much more!). Our Father wants to reveal himself, according to these quotes:

…Our Father is not in hiding; he is not in arbitrary seclusion. He has mobilized the resources of divine wisdom in a never-ending effort to reveal himself to the children of his universal domains.

…Even to approach the knowing of a divine personality, all of man’s personality endowments must be wholly consecrated to the effort; halfhearted, partial devotion will be unavailing.

“…In both the beauties of nature and the virtues of men does the Prince of Heaven seek to reveal himself and to show forth his righteous nature.”

Jesus: “…If we know God, our real business on earth is so to live as to permit the Father to reveal himself in our lives, and thus will all God-seeking persons see the Father and ask for our help in finding out more about the God who in this manner finds expression in our lives.”

…Before the man left the room, Jesus returned to his seat and, addressing those at the table, said: “Such works my Father does, not to tempt you into the kingdom, but to reveal himself to those who are already in the kingdom….”

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God can be known, just not all of God, eh?

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Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jul 6, 2019, 1:43 PM

Bradly wrote:

So many things….. Has to be three….how big it all is, how populated it all is, and how safe and friendly it all is. I know , I know…can’t help it.

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Three biggies for sure, Bradly. You helped it

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Richard E Warren
GeneParticipant
Jul 6, 2019, 4:41 PM
Rick wrote: (For the sake of conversation)

”And I believe we can know God as a person, tho he may also be an architect, an artist, a cosmic designer and innovator (and so much more!).”

but this is my point: architect, artist, designer, innovator and most certainly much more – all within the realm of experience, implies the God of experience. Can we really get past this realm?

Don’t this make you wonder which God we are talking about? Do we always know which God the authors are talking about? Their use of our words can be general and very specific with sometimes multiple meanings.

“Even to approach the knowing of a divine personality all of our personal endowments must be focused”

thats a personal effort/attempt to approach any divine personality – that personal exchange – how does it or does it differ when attempting to approach God the Father or approaching the Supreme?
BonitaParticipant
Jul 6, 2019, 8:04 PM

Gene wrote:

Don’t this make you wonder which God we are talking about?

I think there’s only one God, right? And he lives in your head! The problem is that God living in your head is a pre-personality and not easy to have a relationship with. That’s why we have Jesus/Spirit of Truth. Everyone knows Jesus and loves him. And if you don’t, sorry for you.
GeneParticipant
Jul 7, 2019, 12:01 AM

Bonita wrote:

Gene wrote:

Don’t this make you wonder which God we are talking about?

I think there’s only one God, right? And he lives in your head! The problem is that God living in your head is a pre-personality and not easy to have a relationship with. That’s why we have Jesus/Spirit of Truth. Everyone knows Jesus and loves him. And if you don’t, sorry for you.

wow – unrighteous condescension noted and appreciated.

not certain what I said to deserve it but I can take a hint.

no need for more, won’t be logging in again.

later.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jul 7, 2019, 9:19 AM

Gene wrote:

Rick wrote: (For the sake of conversation) ”And I believe we can know God as a person, tho he may also be an architect, an artist, a cosmic designer and innovator (and so much more!).” but this is my point: architect, artist, designer, innovator and most certainly much more – all within the realm of experience, implies the God of experience. Can we really get past this realm? Don’t this make you wonder which God we are talking about? Do we always know which God the authors are talking about? Their use of our words can be general and very specific with sometimes multiple meanings. “Even to approach the knowing of a divine personality all of our personal endowments must be focused” thats a personal effort/attempt to approach any divine personality – that personal exchange – how does it or does it differ when attempting to approach God the Father or approaching the Supreme?

Good points Gene, there’s God the Ultimate, God the Absolute, God the Sevenfold, and all three of the members of the Trinity must be considered Gods. To me, Michael and his mate are Gods. The authors suggest we will ‘get past’ all these realms as the cosmos unfolds its potentials.

God is such a general term, I get the feeling the authors don’t like it and would much prefer more precise, accurate, and informed terms, like First Source or the Universal Father. THAT alone would be worthy knowledge, if only Urantia was ready! Someday.

As to differential approach to each God, bet you’re right about that. I suspect we will not fully know how to approach until until the time comes, but that’s just a guess.

Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Jul 7, 2019, 10:59 AM

Gene wrote:

wow – unrighteous condescension noted and appreciated. not certain what I said to deserve it but I can take a hint. no need for more, won’t be logging in again.

I’m really sorry Gene. My comments were not directed at you. Looking back I should not have used the word you. I can see how you took it personally but I meant it generally. Very sorry. I should have said “And those who don’t, sorry for them.” I know that you know Jesus.
AndréParticipant
Jul 8, 2019, 9:55 AM
Hi,

142:3:9 (1599.1) But when a later writer narrated these events, subsequent to the enlargement of the Jewish concept of the nature of God, he did not dare attribute evil to Yahweh; therefore he said: ‘And Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel.’ Cannot you discern that such records in the Scriptures clearly show how the concept of thenature of God continued to grow from one generation to another?

161:1:3 (1783.5) He did say to Thomas: “It matters little what idea of the Father you may entertain as long as you are spiritually acquainted with the ideal of his infinite and eternal nature.”

182:1:26 (1965.20) As divine love reveals the nature of God, eternal truth discloses his name in ever-enlarging proportions.

^1:1.6 ^(23.3)He is best known, most universally acknowledged, on your planet, Urantia, by the name God. The name he is given is of little importance; the significant thing is that you should know him and aspire to be like him
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jul 8, 2019, 11:11 AM

andré wrote:

Hi, 142:3:9 (1599.1) But when a later writer narrated these events, subsequent to the enlargement of the Jewish concept of the nature of God, he did not dare attribute evil to Yahweh; therefore he said: ‘And Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel.’ Cannot you discern that such records in the Scriptures clearly show how the concept of thenature of God continued to grow from one generation to another? 161:1:3 (1783.5) He did say to Thomas: “It matters little what idea of the Father you may entertain as long as you are spiritually acquainted with the ideal of his infinite and eternal nature.” 182:1:26 (1965.20) As divine love reveals the nature of God, eternal truth discloses his name in ever-enlarging proportions. ^1:1.6 ^(23.3)He is best known, most universally acknowledged, on your planet, Urantia, by the name God. The name he is given is of little importance; the significant thing is that you should know him and aspire to be like him.

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Point taken, André. Thanks much for the correcting quotes. To me God is Great Grandfather.

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Richard E Warren
AndréParticipant
Jul 10, 2019, 9:45 AM
Hi,

Rick, where I should find in UB the quoted you mention ?

God must be loved to be known.

_______________________________________

If one thing would be allowed to said is;

91:2:3 … prayer is in reality a communion between man and his Maker.
BonitaParticipant
Jul 10, 2019, 10:14 AM
102:1.1 The work of the Thought Adjuster constitutes the explanation of the translation of man’s primitive and evolutionary sense of duty into that higher and more certain faith in the eternal realities of revelation. There must be perfection hunger in man’s heart to insure capacity for comprehending the faith paths to supreme attainment. If any man chooses to do the divine will, he shall know the way of truth. It is literally true, “Human things must be known in order to be loved, but divine things must be loved in order to be known.” But honest doubts and sincere questionings are not sin; such attitudes merely spell delay in the progressive journey toward perfection attainment. Childlike trust secures man’s entrance into the kingdom of heavenly ascent, but progress is wholly dependent on the vigorous exercise of the robust and confident faith of the full-grown man.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jul 10, 2019, 10:45 AM

wrote:

Hi, Rick, where I should find in UB the quoted you mention ? God must be loved to be known.

Bonita, thanks. That’s it André. Admittedly it says things, not God. What things should we consider to be divine? Paradise maybe? It’s a bit of contradiction because things can’t be loved.

This is the UB quote: “Human things must be known in order to be loved, but divine things must be loved in order to be known.”

It’s interesting to note, Pascal’s axiom is sometimes translated: Human beings must be known to be loved; but Divine beings must be loved to be known. Ref: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/blaise_pascal_100862

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Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jul 10, 2019, 10:56 AM
The original French:

Les êtres humains doivent être connus pour être aimés; mais les êtres divins doivent être aimés pour être connus

Which translates as being. Curious the UB authors and editors used the word things, but I’m sure they had good reason.

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Richard E Warren

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