19 posts · 4 participants · started Nov 2, 2024, 8:25 AM
Could spontaneous human combustion, a fairly rare phenomenon, be (in some even more rare cases) the result of someone actually fusing with their thought adjuster while still in the likeness of moral flesh?
Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.
I don’t think so. My understanding is that fusion consumes the entire material body.
Rherman,
Here is a snip from Wikipedia: “The scientific consensus is that incidents which might appear as spontaneous combustion did in fact have an external source of ignition, and that spontaneous human combustion without an external ignition source is extremely implausible.”
My understanding from the UB is: Persons are invited from on high. Preparation is readied with family and friends invited to witness a fusion event. I doubt such events are spontaneous as we understand. Fusion from Urantia is a high honor, in my humble opinion. There likely is nothing scary because witnessing mortals would be briefed on their protection and of the high honor thus bestowed. God is not doing anything without love. We read in the book more people will fuse from Urantia as the planet grows spiritually. That is each of us desires and works lovingly to move to such high achievement. This takes personal work and desire to tag on to Michael’s plans!
I appreciate your comments Mark. And thanks for the question rherman.
I discern three situations in which fusion can occur.
2. In the eons of time prior to the placement of the morontia temple, an individual can fuse with their TA when conditions are ripe and all approvals are made. Mind you, nothing occurs randomly. Rather are such events ruled by unseen and heavenly direction under law according to the plans and purposes of God. The UB says that Enoch fused this way. 45:4.13 We get a glimpse of it here. 55:1.6
3. The UB offers more info on personality survival after resurrection on the Mansion worlds, and, after remediation, rehab and achievement occur in preparation for fusion, fusion is likely to happen either on one of the spheres surrounding the capital or upon the System capital itself. 40:8.1 But don’t forget that even when fused, the life form is made of morontia stuff, not spirit stuff. We have 570 42:10.5 levels of morontia life to traverse before landing on Salvington.
39:2.13 (431.2) The angels cannot transport combustion bodies—flesh and
blood—such as you now have, but they can transport all others, from the
lowest morontia to the higher spirit forms. They do not function in the event
of natural death. When you finish your earthly career, your body remains on
this planet. Your Thought Adjuster proceeds to the bosom of the Father, and
these angels are not directly concerned in your subsequent personality
reassembly on the identification mansion world. There your new body is a
morontia form, one that can enseraphim. You “sow a mortal body” in the
grave; you “reap a morontia form” on the mansion worlds.
110:5.2 (1208.1) …The Adjusters simply cannot, in a single lifetime,
arbitrarily co-ordinate and synchronize two such unlike and diverse types of
thinking as the human and the divine. When they do, as they sometimes
have, such souls are translated directly to the mansion worlds without the
necessity of passing through the experience of death.
Taken together, these two quotes may imply that something researchers don’t completely understand happens in extremely rare cases in which no external source of flame can be found in the phenomenon of spontaneous human combustion. We’re hardly a world “advanced in the age of light and life” and I haven’t found a quote which states the physical body is completely consumed when fusion occurs while still alive in the flesh. Rather, it seems to have something to do with someone making “The Choice” (like Enoch) and being taken directly to the mansion worlds even if some of their body is left behind. Thank you for your participation!
Randy
Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.
I haven’t found a quote which states the physical body is completely consumed when fusion occurs while still alive in the flesh. Rather, it seems to have something to do with someone making “The Choice” (like Enoch) and being taken directly to the mansion worlds even if some of their body is left behind.
Thank you for your participation!
Randy
Greetings Randy!
I appreciate your intentions and effort to relate this phenomena to the Papers. Mark’s wiki reference was very helpful in its contribution to context.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_human_combustion
I’m not certain/convinced that “spontaneous human combustion” actually exists, but certainly “translation” itself is clearly described in the UB as having increasing frequency during the planetary eras of Light and Life, and even prior to that.
I found this from Mara’s post above, which does indicate that burned corpses or body parts are not related to mortal fusion and translation:
(622.6) 55:1.6 On presettled worlds, planets without morontia temples, these fusion flashes many times occur in the planetary atmosphere, where the material body of a translation candidate is elevated by the midway creatures and the physical controllers.
I agree with Mara that there really is nothing truly “spontaneous” about mortal translation, and as you already stated, such events are not random or accidental either.
It is interesting to note (also in Paper 55) that the deeper into Light and Life a planet progresses the less frequently do the souls of translated folk go to the Mansion Worlds. This is due, I believe, to the personal spiritization and psychic circle progress achieved by individual people and the progressive, evolutionary spiritualization of those worlds.
I appreciate your being here Randy. Not all human mysteries have fact, truth, or reality as their source. There is also fantasy, fiction, imagination, and fabrication by primitive peoples of things seen or heard about by myth, fable, and legend.
Deciphering which is which and speculations about realty are fascinating fun! Scientific inquiry will eventually reduce confusions and eliminate the primitive errors and superstitions of prior ages…but until science discovers God and the intentional functionality of Divine purpose and plan of progressive evolutionary realities in time, human science will remain, primarily, as the blind leading the blind… IMHO.
Bradly.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
I appreciate your comments Bradly. And yours Randy. It might be helpful to look into what is fusion, a definition of it so to speak. It creates a whole new kind of being, 110:7.4 a future finaliter. In the ascendant career it is denominated the third jubilee. 27:7.8
(I looked more closely at the seven jubiles and discovered the second jubilee pertains to the awakening in the morontia life. And this made me think that fusion candidates – those rare few who are ripened and ready for fusion while on earth – are experiencing morontia life while in the flesh. Well, maybe I should skip over this because it’s a different subject.)
My guess is that the fusion of the immortal soul and TA is not like adding two hydrogen atoms to one of oxygen to get water. It’s not like a marriage partnership. It’s not symbiotic. It’s not a relationship – the one (soul) to the other (TA). It is the making of a new being. Since each personality is unique, the new being is also unique in all creation.
110:7.5 [Part III]When the evolving soul and the divine Adjuster are finally and eternally fused, each gains all of the experiencible qualities of the other. This co-ordinate personality possesses all of the experiential memory of survival once held by the ancestral mortal mind and then resident in the morontia soul, and in addition thereto this potential finaliter embraces all the experiential memory of the Adjuster throughout the mortal indwellings of all time. But it will require an eternity of the future for an Adjuster ever completely to endow the personality partnership with the meanings and values which the divine Monitor carries forward from the eternity of the past.
[…] and I haven’t found a quote which states the physical body is completely consumed when fusion occurs….
110:7.2 [Part III]When a human being has completed the circles of cosmic achievement, and further, when the final choosing of the mortal will permits the Adjuster to complete the association of human identity with the morontial soul during evolutionary and physical life, then do such consummated liaisons of soul and Adjuster go on independently to the mansion worlds, and there is issued the mandate from Uversa which provides for the immediate fusion of the Adjuster and the morontial soul. This fusion during physical life instantly consumes the material body; the human beings who might witness such a spectacle would only observe the translating mortal disappear “in chariots of fire.”
Mara, et al,
From your quote snip I wonder if “..fusion during physical life instantly consumes the material body;…” means the Power Directors (planetary power managers) actually reclaim the temporarily loaned energies we use in material form. Their energy sources are invisible to us, but their designs become available upon procreation. They would take back energy when natural life ends at physical death. Could we assume yes? Could we assume the “fire” is a visible energy transfer exchange-reaction process?
The Directors and their sources are surely related to this discussion topic!
From your quote snip I wonder if “..fusion during physical life instantly consumes the material body;…” means the Power Directors (planetary power managers) actually reclaim the temporarily loaned energies we use in material form.
I wondered about that too. Maybe the combustion leaves a residue of ash that falls to earth. How about Genesis 3:16 – “For you are from dust, and to dust you will return”? And I was thinking of the second law of thermodynamics, but maybe that doesn’t pertain. Then my brain went to imagining the ultimatons . . . .
Here is a fusion detail that might be overlooked.
110:7.2 [Part III] When a human being has completed the circles of cosmic achievement, and further, when the final choosing of the mortal will permits the Adjuster to complete the association of human identity with the morontial soul during evolutionary and physical life, then do such consummated liaisons of soul and Adjuster go on independently to the mansion worlds, and there is issued the mandate from Uversa which provides for the immediate fusion of the Adjuster and the morontial soul.
Fusion does not occur in the sky, in earth’s atmosphere or up where people down here might see chariots of fire. The flash of fire consumes the non-transportable material body, and the soul and Adjuster go on independently to the mansion worlds where fusion actually occurs.
Do you think, as I do, that the fusion candidate’s material body, elevated by midwayers and placed in a horizontal position and otherwise prepared 39:2.11 is readied like a fusion candidate in a morontia temple is readied for seraphic transport?
Mara,
It seems reasonable to assume prep is similar to Morontia Temple fusion. Without the temple, such prep is different, but the result is the same from an invitation to “come on up.” I doubt there is a waste ash from atmospheric fusion flash. That would not be nice for survivors! Who wants to breathe that???!!!! Apparently there was no residue from Jesus’ body dissolution either.
Generally, I cannot see fusion as the same as what we’ve understood as spontaneous combustion body burns. But heck! Being a naysayer is not the best posit for life either. I will wait until my Guardian feels I’m ready to handle more! Mansonia 7 maybe????
The great message for me is the replete loving care characteristics of God and the Son and Local Mom. Nothing is left to hazard. Yippee!
Apparently there was no residue from Jesus’ body dissolution either.
I appreciate your comments Mark. I agree with what you say is important to you. Bradly thinks it’s fun to speculate. In the process of speculation interesting things might turn up. I don’t know what happened in the case of Jesus, but we do have some information. Jesus was unique.
Do you think what happened to his remains is typical? I don’t think so. You decide.
189:2.1 At ten minutes past three o’clock, as the resurrected Jesus fraternized with the assembled morontia personalities from the seven mansion worlds of Satania, the chief of archangels — the angels of the resurrection — approached Gabriel and asked for the mortal body of Jesus. Said the chief of the archangels: “We may not participate in the morontia resurrection of the bestowal experience of Michael our sovereign, but we would have his mortal remains put in our custody for immediate dissolution. We do not propose to employ our technique of dematerialization; we merely wish to invoke the process of accelerated time. It is enough that we have seen the Sovereign live and die on Urantia; the hosts of heaven would be spared the memory of enduring the sight of the slow decay of the human form of the Creator and Upholder of a universe. In the name of the celestial intelligences of all Nebadon, I ask for a mandate giving me the custody of the mortal body of Jesus of Nazareth and empowering us to proceed with its immediate dissolution.”
And when Gabriel had conferred with the senior Most High of Edentia, the archangel spokesman for the celestial hosts was given permission to make such disposition of the physical remains of Jesus as he might determine.
After the chief of archangels had been granted this request, he summoned to his assistance many of his fellows, together with a numerous host of the representatives of all orders of celestial personalities, and then, with the aid of the Urantia midwayers, proceeded to take possession of Jesus’ physical body. This body of death was a purely material creation; it was physical and literal; it could not be removed from the tomb as the morontia form of the resurrection had been able to escape the sealed sepulchre. By the aid of certain morontia auxiliary personalities, the morontia form can be made at one time as of the spirit so that it can become indifferent to ordinary matter, while at another time it can become discernible and contactable to material beings, such as the mortals of the realm.
As they made ready to remove the body of Jesus from the tomb preparatory to according it the dignified and reverent disposal of near-instantaneous dissolution, it was assigned the secondary Urantia midwayers to roll away the stones from the entrance of the tomb. The larger of these two stones was a huge circular affair, much like a millstone, and it moved in a groove chiseled out of the rock, so that it could be rolled back and forth to open or close the tomb. When the watching Jewish guards and the Roman soldiers, in the dim light of the morning, saw this huge stone begin to roll away from the entrance of the tomb, apparently of its own accord — without any visible means to account for such motion — they were seized with fear and panic, and they fled in haste from the scene. The Jews fled to their homes, afterward going back to report these doings to their captain at the temple. The Romans fled to the fortress of Antonia and reported what they had seen to the centurion as soon as he arrived on duty.
[snipped]
The tomb of Joseph was empty, not because the body of Jesus had been rehabilitated or resurrected, but because the celestial hosts had been granted their request to afford it a special and unique dissolution, a return of the “dust to dust,” without the intervention of the delays of time and without the operation of the ordinary and visible processes of mortal decay and material corruption.
. . . and so on.
Perhaps we can’t all have the same idea, but someday The FER assures us, we’ll all have the same IDEAL! I’m honored all of you have chosen to participate.
Randy
Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.
Once there was a man, and he lived to sing the lions song
As he traveled on road of hope
One Love is the light, shining over every mountain top
It will lead us to the higher ground
One day every heart will beat strong against the night
Let it be done right now
Once there was a man, and his words became a song of love
And his song became the golden dream
One Love is the light, shining over everyone that believes
It will lead us to the higher ground
One day every eye will see truth before the light
Let it be done right now
Some wait, so long
Because our love is strong
This hard road traveled on
Will lead us home, forever
Hear the lion’s song, voices cryin’ like a desert wind
Yeh he’s gone unto his father’s land
Afrika tonight, for we truly are one in our hearts
Colors woven in the golden dream
One day every eye will see truth before the light
Let it be done right now
One day every voice will speak strong against the night
Let us be one right now
So let it be
We are the children of a thousand days
We are the people of the hard rain
We are the children of a thousand days
We are the people of the hard rain
We are the people of the hard rain
These are the lyrics to “The Lion’s Song” by Pat Benatar. To me, it’s much more than a song: it’s a prayer.
Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.
Located within the pituitary gland of the body, I propose that a particle of pure consciousness is being developed by our thought adjusters in conjunction with all the proper moral and ethical choices made by the individual. It is in the body but it is not of the body. When mortal death occurs, that is what goes to the mansion worlds. Because it is a particle of pure consciousness, and not any kind of atomic or sub-atomic particle, I contend that it is highly unlikely it will ever be detected by any kind of mortal technology.
Randy
Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.
The UB provides such detail for us about the morontial attributes of the mortal soul, especially perhaps Paper 111. Why suppose or speculate what might be when such clarity is available? Surely we don’t need alternative explanations for what the Papers offer on the subject of our soul at a UB study group?
Does the soul reside in a material/physical gland or organ?
I hope for some shared text from the celestials’ universe reality perspective we study together here.
47:3.3 (533.1) The mortal-mind transcripts and the active creature-memory patterns as transformed from the material levels to the spiritual are the individual possession of the detached Thought Adjusters; these spiritized factors of mind, memory, and creature personality are forever a part of such Adjusters. The creature mind-matrix and the passive potentials of identity are present in the morontia soul intrusted to the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardians. And it is the reuniting of the morontia-soul trust of the seraphim and the spirit-mind trust of the Adjuster that reassembles creature personality and constitutes resurrection of a sleeping survivor.
Me here: Mind and consciousness are likewise not within the brain we are told.
111:1.5 (1216.6)Mortal mind is a temporary intellect system loaned to human beings for use during a material lifetime, and as they use this mind, they are either accepting or rejecting the potential of eternal existence. Mind is about all you have of universe reality that is subject to your will, and the soul—the morontia self—will faithfully portray the harvest of the temporal decisions which the mortal self is making. Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious. And it is not so much what mind comprehends as what mind desires to comprehend that insures survival; it is not so much what mind is like as what mind is striving to be like that constitutes spirit identification. It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Located within the pituitary gland of the body, I propose that a particle of pure consciousness is being developed by our thought adjusters in conjunction with all the proper moral and ethical choices made by the individual. It is in the body but it is not of the body. When mortal death occurs, that is what goes to the mansion worlds. Because it is a particle of pure consciousness, and not any kind of atomic or sub-atomic particle, I contend that it is highly unlikely it will ever be detected by any kind of mortal technology.
.
The UB provides such detail for us about the morontial attributes of the mortal soul, especially perhaps Paper 111. Why suppose or speculate what might be when such clarity is available? Surely we don’t need alternative explanations for what the Papers offer on the subject of our soul at a UB study group? Does the soul reside in a material/physical gland or organ? I hope for some shared text from the celestials’ universe reality perspective we study together here.
.
47:3.3 (533.1) The mortal-mind transcripts and the active creature-memory patterns as transformed from the material levels to the spiritual are the individual possession of the detached Thought Adjusters; these spiritized factors of mind, memory, and creature personality are forever a part of such Adjusters. The creature mind-matrix and the passive potentials of identity are present in the morontia soul intrusted to the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardians. And it is the reuniting of the morontia-soul trust of the seraphim and the spirit-mind trust of the Adjuster that reassembles creature personality and constitutes resurrection of a sleeping survivor. Me here: Mind and consciousness are likewise not within the brain we are told.
.
111:1.5 (1216.6)Mortal mind is a temporary intellect system loaned to human beings for use during a material lifetime, and as they use this mind, they are either accepting or rejecting the potential of eternal existence. Mind is about all you have of universe reality that is subject to your will, and the soul—the morontia self—will faithfully portray the harvest of the temporal decisions which the mortal self is making. Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious. And it is not so much what mind comprehends as what mind desires to comprehend that insures survival; it is not so much what mind is like as what mind is striving to be like that constitutes spirit identification. It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity.
. . . . . .
Excellent response Bradly. Thanks.
People have long believed the soul resided within some human organ or another. The Urantia Papers do leave room for and encourage certain speculations on a variety of topics.
On others, this gift of epochal revelation provides great detail and specificity to help reduce confusion and the distortions of human mythologies and conjecture.
Evidently the soul is that essence of and repository for those experiences and expressions of eternal survival value. And it is the soul “that is what goes to the mansion worlds.”
111:0.1 (1215.1)THE presence of the divine Adjuster in the human mind makes it forever impossible for either science or philosophy to attain a satisfactory comprehension of the evolving soul of the human personality. The morontia soul is the child of the universe and may be really known only through cosmic insight and spiritual discovery.
111:0.2 (1215.2)The concept of a soul and of an indwelling spirit is not new to Urantia; it has frequently appeared in the various systems of planetary beliefs. Many of the Oriental as well as some of the Occidental faiths have perceived that man is divine in heritage as well as human in inheritance. The feeling of the inner presence in addition to the external omnipresence of Deity has long formed a part of many Urantian religions. Men have long believed that there is something growing within the human nature, something vital that is destined to endure beyond the short span of temporal life.
111:0.3 (1215.3) Before man realized that his evolving soul was fathered by a divine spirit, it was thought to reside in different physical organs—the eye, liver, kidney, heart, and later, the brain. The savage associated the soul with blood, breath, shadows and with reflections of the self in water.
111:0.4 (1215.4)In the conception of the atman the Hindu teachers really approximated an appreciation of the nature and presence of the Adjuster, but they failed to distinguish the copresence of the evolving and potentially immortal soul. The Chinese, however, recognized two aspects of a human being, the yang and the yin, the soul and the spirit. The Egyptians and many African tribes also believed in two factors, the ka and the ba; the soul was not usually believed to be pre-existent, only the spirit.
111:0.5 (1215.5)The inhabitants of the Nile valley believed that each favored individual had bestowed upon him at birth, or soon thereafter, a protecting spirit which they called the ka. They taught that this guardian spirit remained with the mortal subject throughout life and passed before him into the future estate. On the walls of a temple at Luxor, where is depicted the birth of Amenhotep III, the little prince is pictured on the arm of the Nile god, and near him is another child, in appearance identical with the prince, which is a symbol of that entity which the Egyptians called the ka. This sculpture was completed in the fifteenth century before Christ.
111:0.6 (1215.6)The ka was thought to be a superior spirit genius which desired to guide the associated mortal soul into the better paths of temporal living but more especially to influence the fortunes of the human subject in the hereafter. When an Egyptian of this period died, it was expected that his ka would be waiting for him on the other side of the Great River. At first, only kings were supposed to have kas, but presently all righteous men were believed to possess them. One Egyptian ruler, speaking of the ka within his heart, said: “I did not disregard its speech; I feared to transgress its guidance. I prospered thereby greatly; I was thus successful by reason of that which it caused me to do; I was distinguished by its guidance.” Many believed that the ka was “an oracle from God in everybody.” Many believed that they were to “spend eternity in gladness of heart in the favor of the God that is in you.”
111:0.7 (1216.1) Every race of evolving Urantia mortals has a word equivalent to the concept of soul. Many primitive peoples believed the soul looked out upon the world through human eyes; therefore did they so cravenly fear the malevolence of the evil eye. They have long believed that “the spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord.” The Rig-Veda says: “My mind speaks to my heart.”
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
There are nearly 500 references about the “soul” in the Papers, for those who are curious. Its origin, its growth by our faith experience and spiritization, its survival of material death, its resurrection on the Mansion Worlds, its fusion with the God Fragment, and its eternal destiny and the adventures to come.
https://urassoc.arko.nyc/search/?zoom_sort=2&zoom_query=Soul&x=0&y=0
(8.10) 0:5.10 4. Soul. The soul of man is an experiential acquirement. As a mortal creature chooses to “do the will of the Father in heaven,” so the indwelling spirit becomes the father of a new reality in human experience. The mortal and material mind is the mother of this same emerging reality. The substance of this new reality is neither material nor spiritual — it is morontial. This is the emerging and immortal soul which is destined to survive mortal death and begin the Paradise ascension.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
