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Searching For The Human Roots Of Truth, Beauty & Goodness

34 posts · 6 participants · started Aug 6, 2014, 6:33 PM

Richard E WarrenParticipant
Aug 6, 2014, 6:33 PM
Dear Forum Friends,

Searching the roots and branches of human thought on truth turns up some very interesting parallels with the teachings.

These were gleaned from the “Quotationary”. Note that Blaise Pascal is one of two humans who has the honor of being quoted verbatim in the UB (Paper 102:1.1 ):

...It is literally true, “Human things must be known in order to be loved, but divine things must be loved in order to be known….”

1. Buy truth, and do not sell it. Proverbs 23:23

2. A man is not to be reverenced more than the truth. Plato

3. We know truth, not only by reason, but also by the heart. Blaise Pascal

4. Knowing the truth and living it are two things. Anon.

5. In war, truth is the first casualty. Aeschylus

6. Truth fears no trial. Thomas Fuller

7. Truth will out. John Lidgate

8. There are no new truths, but only truths that have not been recognized by those who have perceived them without noticing. Mary McCarthy

9. When we really live truth, we will cease to talk about it. Elbert Hubbard

10. Faith perceives truth sooner than experience can. Kahlil Gibran

11. Truth is what stands the test of experience. Albert Einstein

***

Up next: Beauty

Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Aug 6, 2014, 7:35 PM
Here’s some more:

The soul is the perceiver and revealer of truth. Ralph Waldo Emerson

Prayer becomes renewal, and renewal becomes truth, and truth becomes the presence of God. Adrienne Von Speyr, The World of Prayer

To see the universal and all-pervading Spirit of Truth face to face one must be able to love the meanest of creation as oneself. Mahatma Gandhi, All Men are Brothers

The instruments for the quest of Truth are as simple as they are difficult. They may appear quite impossible to an arrogant person, and quite possible to an innocent child. The seeker after truth should be humbler than the dust. Mahatma Gandhi, All Men are Brothers

All that I can in true humility present to you is that Truth is not to be found by anybody who has not got an abundant sense of humility. If you would swim on the bosom of the ocean of Truth you must reduce yourself to a zero. Mahatma Gandhi, All Men are Brothers

Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth. Mahatma Gandhi, All Men are Brothers
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Aug 6, 2014, 9:45 PM

Here’s some more:

To see the universal and all-pervading Spirit of Truth face to face one must be able to love the meanest of creation as oneself. Mahatma Gandhi

Gandhi knew the SoT! That’s makes him even more understandable.

Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Aug 12, 2014, 8:15 PM
Dear Forum Members and Guests,

Does your heart/mind/soul resonate with any of these human created thought gems about Our Father’s super-sublime concept and outworking of Cosmic Beauty:

1. Everything on Earth is beautiful, everything, except what we ourselves think and do when we forget the higher purposes of life and our own human dignity. Anton Chekhov.

2. All high beauty has a moral element in it. R W Emerson

3. Beauty is life when life unveils her holy face… Kahlil Gibran

4. Beautiful is greater than good, for it includes the Good. Goethe

5. Beauty is no quality in things themselves, it exists merely in the mind, which contemplates them. David Hume

6. The Good is the Beautiful. Plato

7. “Truth is beauty, and beauty truth”–that is all ye know on Earth, and all ye need to know. John Keats

***

7 More later~

Richard E Warren
ReaderParticipant
Aug 12, 2014, 8:31 PM
Rick, why the quote from David Hume?

5. Beauty is no quality in things themselves, it exists merely in the mind, which contemplates them.

Exists merely in the mind? This seems to imply lack of objective status for divine Beauty, and to contradict the idea that Beauty is a spirit value, i.e. a universe reality.

Have I made too much of this divine value?

-Reader
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Aug 12, 2014, 9:49 PM

Reader wrote:

Rick, why the quote from David Hume? 5. Beauty is no quality in things themselves, it exists merely in the mind, which contemplates them. Exists merely in the mind? This seems to imply lack of objective status for divine Beauty, and to contradict the idea that Beauty is a spirit value, i.e. a universe reality. Have I made too much of this divine value? -Reader

No! In fact, you’ve quickly and very accurately penetrated the reason for including it, imo. Also it highlights the sometimes vast difference between human and divine thinking. The treacherous mindfields of evolved understanding and partial formulation do ever harass even our vaunted dead sages and poets. :)

Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Aug 13, 2014, 2:26 PM

I would say that beauty is a mind phenomenon. Values are a soul phenomena made conscious in and by mind. When beauty is recognized as a value, it must then be given meaning through personal experience. The meaning of beauty has to do with the integration of contrasts (imperfect and perfect), with the resultant unification of all reality. For humans the love of truth is inextricably bound to the love of beauty. The Spirit of Truth is also the spirit of idealistic beauty. He reveals the relatedness of all things and beings, and in doing so reveals the supreme beauty of reality, which is the unification of the cosmic extremes of nature existing between creature and Creator.

Relevant quotes: 2:7.8; 6:2.7; 44:7.3; 56:10.3; 56:10.9; 56:10.11; 56:10.15; 155:6.11
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Aug 13, 2014, 6:34 PM

Bonita wrote:

I would say that beauty is a mind phenomenon. Values are a soul phenomena made conscious in and by mind. When beauty is recognized as a value, it must then be given meaning through personal experience. The meaning of beauty has to do with the integration of contrasts (imperfect and perfect), with the resultant unification of all reality. For humans the love of truth is inextricably bound to the love of beauty. The Spirit of Truth is also the spirit of idealistic beauty. He reveals the relatedness of all things and beings, and in doing so reveals the supreme beauty of reality, which is the unification of the cosmic extremes of nature existing between creature and Creator.

Hmm. Thanks Bonita,

So, what do you think Reader? Does Beauty exist and stand alone without a minded being to perceive/evaluate it?

Richard E Warren
BradlyParticipant
Aug 13, 2014, 9:03 PM
…..and does the falling tree that crashes to the forest floor make a sound with no ear to hear it?

The answer to this question is no….the ear is required for the sound waves to result in sound….but of course there are many ears in the forest, no? To the issue of truth, beauty, and goodness, I think the same is true…. all the universes are filled by mind and by minds. There can be no beauty with no eye to behold it nor truth with no mind to discover it nor goodness without a mind to perceive it. Mind creates all this, some by Diety and some by Celestial and still more by mortal mind. The essence of the First Source and Center is minded….I AM. Without mind there is no tree or forest or truth or beauty or goodness….or me….or you. Nothing created is unattended or unappreciated or without audience of some form….a mindful audience indeed.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Aug 14, 2014, 8:38 AM
So! Can we safely update the ancient axiom to: Beauty is in the MIND of the beholder??

Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Aug 14, 2014, 3:03 PM
Another way to look at this that mind is creative. It is the function of the Infinite Spirit to bring the thought-word of the Father and Eternal Son into union and execute it. The Infinite Spirit is the source of mind and the spark of life. I honestly do not think the creation of beauty is possible without mind. Yet we know that mind alone is impotent to create; it needs personality on some level. Even the Creative Spirit of a local universe cannot bestow mind until she is endowed with personal prerogatives. Beauty seems to be conceived in mind, executed by personality, experienced and appreciated by mind.

We are even told that in order to form a suitable body (matter), mind is required. We also know that the Creator Son cannot create physical matter without the Creative Spirit. Matter is derived from the pattern of all beauty, which is Paradise. It seems to me that beauty and mind cannot be separated unless you’re referring to the original pattern on Paradise, but that would only be theory, a function of mind.

Relevant quotes: 0:5.5; 9:5.4; 14:6.8; 14:6.17; 17:6.6; 34:4.8; 42:12.9; 56:2.1;
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Aug 14, 2014, 8:26 PM

Bonita wrote:

Another way to look at this that mind is creative. It is the function of the Infinite Spirit to bring the thought-word of the Father and Eternal Son into union and execute it. The Infinite Spirit is the source of mind and the spark of life. I honestly do not think the creation of beauty is possible without mind. Yet we know that mind alone is impotent to create; it needs personality on some level. Even the Creative Spirit of a local universe cannot bestow mind until she is endowed with personal prerogatives. Beauty seems to be conceived in mind, executed by personality, experienced and appreciated by mind. We are even told that in order to form a suitable body (matter), mind is required. We also know that the Creator Son cannot create physical matter without the Creative Spirit. Matter is derived from the pattern of all beauty, which is Paradise. It seems to me that beauty and mind cannot be separated unless you’re referring to the original pattern on Paradise, but that would only be theory, a function of mind. Relevant quotes: 0:5.5; 9:5.4; 14:6.8; 14:6.17; 17:6.6; 34:4.8; 42:12.9; 56:2.1

Great thought work, thanks. I still have to wonder, and you set it up very well:

…It seems to me that beauty and mind cannot be separated unless you’re referring to the original pattern on Paradise, but that would only be theory, a function of mind.

So, is there the possibility of the existence of objective Beauty? Paradise Havona perhaps? Still, with no perceiver, no beauty. Beauty is non-sensical sans an appreciative consciousness, at least from this lowly human perspective.

Beauty, in the final analysis, is not alive, is not a thing or a being, is it?

Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Aug 14, 2014, 11:16 PM
Seven more human thought gems on beauty:

1. A thing of beauty is a joy forever. John Keats

2. Beauty is the flower of virtue. Plutarch

3. True beauty is never separate from utility. Quitilian

4. In each person I catch the fleeting glimpse of something beautiful and swear eternal friendship with that. George Santayana

5. Even Fiji is without beauty to one who is cold and hungry. Japanese aphorism

6. Genuine beauty springs from within. Unknown

7. Beauty is a characteristic of a person, animal, place, object, or idea that provides a perceptual experience of pleasure or satisfaction. Beauty is studied as part of aesthetics, sociology, social psychology, and culture. An “ideal beauty” is an entity which is admired, or possesses features widely attributed to beauty in a particular culture, for perfection.

The experience of “beauty” often involves an interpretation of some entity as being in balance and harmony with nature, which may lead to feelings of attraction and emotional well-being. Because this can be a subjective experience, it is often said that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”

There is evidence that perceptions of beauty are evolutionarily determined, that things, aspects of people and landscapes considered beautiful are typically found in situations likely to give enhanced survival of the perceiving human’s genes. Wikipedia

Richard E Warren
ReaderParticipant
Aug 15, 2014, 12:43 AM
I think Bonita’s observations are quite beyond anything Hume dreamed of in his simple statement (which I think did imply the utter subjectivity and merely relative value of beauty – an idea not supported by the UB).

But she has me reconsidering the question.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Aug 15, 2014, 9:21 AM

Reader wrote:

…But she has me reconsidering the question.

She’s beautiful that way :D

Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Aug 15, 2014, 12:31 PM

Rick Warren wrote: Beauty, in the final analysis, is not alive, is not a thing or a being, is it?

I’m under the impression that beauty is a quality, a value. The UB says that spirit is value and that value is a unique element in universe reality which can only be felt. It also says that quality is a matter of mind interpretation and therefore must remain an experience of the individual. But, it requires the eye of faith in order to see the Paradise value of beauty.

Relevant quotes: 7:1.3; 111:3.6; 115:2.2; 133:5.7; 195:7.4

Rick Warren wrote: She’s beautiful that way :D

Gosh . . . I’m blushing Thank you so much. I think the same of you.
BonitaParticipant
Aug 15, 2014, 1:29 PM
Here are two somewhat related quotes about the beautiful:

If seeds in the black earth can turn into such beautiful roses, what might not the heart of man become in its long journey to the stars? G. K. Chesterton

I feel that we too often focus only on the negative aspect of life — on what is bad. If we were more willing to see the good and the beautiful things that surround us, we would be able to transform our families. From there, we would change our next-door-neighbors and then others who live in our neighborhood or city. We would be able to bring peace and love to our world, which hungers so much for these things. Mother Teresa, No Greater Love
GracielaGParticipant
Aug 15, 2014, 6:58 PM
Human roots of Truth, Beauty and Goodness, for me, always are born from the relationship with our own spirit TA.
God in us. The Root.
Although human is our perception, even from childhood, unconsciousness and lacking of a deeper insight. Who could make us experience the joy of a new discovery? Who makes us feel love for the people and the heavenly blessings that rain down on us?

Love; Since child I have had these perceptions, sometimes subtle, but many years have had to pass before I realized about Why many of this sensitive experiences? So, it is very gratifying to know that I have obtained wise answers to some of my questions. Questions that from time to time sounded in my mind. But there was no chance to ask anyone … or maybe my own Spirit stopped me?
Love, condensing the Golden Rule in one single and unique word; All that is, was and will be. Everything else goes and is reflecting in the Supreme and this is our contribution on the upward path, nothing is ever lost in the Universe.
Love is All.

But this trio of concepts, always must be united, we can not miss even one, otherwise the separation breaks the unity and the Rule Golden Rule would not be, if one key is missing.
The simply human love …sometimes is usually selfish. The apreciación of Goodness -Beauty – Truth – keeps us from become victim and fall in . the “simple impulse to live”
But we have the help of worship and wisdom to recognize and differentiate the limited human love of the True Love.
But: “…man is capable of transcending this urge to natural function. Man may elect to live upon the high plane of intelligent art, even that of celestial joy and spiritual ecstasy”
(“The Art of Living” from Paper 160: 1.5)
After all, human root contains within itself deep the divine Love of the Father, as the root holds and feeds the tree.

Enjoying the “Truth – Beauty – Goodness” ever increasing as we ascend in the ways of the seven circles of thought…

Graciela G

***
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Aug 15, 2014, 8:12 PM

Bonita wrote:

Here are two somewhat related quotes about the beautiful:

If seeds in the black earth can turn into such beautiful roses, what might not the heart of man become in its long journey to the stars? G. K. Chesterton

I feel that we too often focus only on the negative aspect of life — on what is bad. If we were more willing to see the good and the beautiful things that surround us, we would be able to transform our families. From there, we would change our next-door-neighbors and then others who live in our neighborhood or city. We would be able to bring peace and love to our world, which hungers so much for these things. Mother Teresa, No Greater Love”

Like.

Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Aug 15, 2014, 8:17 PM

GracielaG wrote:

Human roots of Truth, Beauty and Goodness, for me, always are born from the relationship with our own spirit TA. God in us. The Root. Although human is our perception, even from childhood, unconsciousness and lacking of a deeper insight. Who could make us experience the joy of a new discovery? Who makes us feel love for the people and the heavenly blessings that rain down on us? Love; Since child I have had these perceptions, sometimes subtle, but many years have had to pass before I realized about Why many of this sensitive experiences? So, it is very gratifying to know that I have obtained wise answers to some of my questions. Questions that from time to time sounded in my mind. But there was no chance to ask anyone … or maybe my own Spirit stopped me? Love, condensing the Golden Rule in one single and unique word; All that is, was and will be. Everything else goes and is reflecting in the Supreme and this is our contribution on the upward path, nothing is ever lost in the Universe. Love is All. But this trio of concepts, always must be united, we can not miss even one, otherwise the separation breaks the unity and the Rule Golden Rule would not be, if one key is missing. The simply human love …sometimes is usually selfish. The apreciación of Goodness -Beauty – Truth – keeps us from become victim and fall in . the “simple impulse to live” But we have the help of worship and wisdom to recognize and differentiate the limited human love of the True Love. But: “…man is capable of transcending this urge to natural function. Man may elect to live upon the high plane of intelligent art, even that of celestial joy and spiritual ecstasy” (“The Art of Living” from Paper 160: 1.5) After all, human root contains within itself deep the divine Love of the Father, as the root holds and feeds the tree. Enjoying the “Truth – Beauty – Goodness” ever increasing as we ascend in the ways of the seven circles of thought… Graciela G ***

Thanks for adding the personal touch to this thread, and so beautifully Alina,

I especially like this you wrote:

…Love, condensing the Golden Rule in one single and unique word; All that is, was and will be. Everything else goes and is reflecting in the Supreme and this is our contribution on the upward path, nothing is ever lost in the Universe. Love is All.

Let us all enjoy our “spiritual ecstasy”!

“…Man may elect to live upon the high plane of intelligent art, even that of celestial joy and spiritual ecstasy” (“The Art of Living” from Paper 160: 1.5)

Richard E Warren

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