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Races, eugénisme, nazisme et histoire émotionnelle

6 posts · 2 participants · started Jul 11, 2025, 4:44 PM

    • 175:1.3 (1905.5)« Nombre d’entre vous ont osé croire à mes enseignements et sont déjà entrés dans la joie et la liberté de la conscience de leur filiation avec Dieu. Vous m’êtes témoins que j’ai offert cette filiation avec Dieu à toute la nation juive, même à ceux qui cherchent maintenant à me détruire. Mon Père recevrait encore maintenant ces éducateurs aveuglés et ces chefs hypocrites, si seulement ils voulaient se tourner vers lui et accepter sa miséricorde. Encore maintenant, il n’est pas trop tard pour que ce peuple reçoive la parole du ciel et accueille favorablement le Fils de l’Homme.

     

     

    175:1.5 (1906.2)« Tant qu’il y a une chance pour que les Juifs se tournent vers mon Père et cherchent le salut, le Dieu d’Abraham, d’Isaac et de Jacob gardera sa main miséricordieuse tendue vers vous ; mais, une fois que vous aurez rempli votre coupe d’impénitence et une fois que vous aurez définitivement rejeté la miséricorde de mon Père, cette nation sera abandonnée à elle-même et vouée rapidement à une fin peu glorieuse.

    Bien des passages seraient totalement inaudibles pour de nombreux cerveaux matrixés d’aujourd’hui (pourquoi ?)

     

    La Révélation du livre d’Urantia est-elle historiquement située (au sens où elle s’adresse à un monde à la veille du génocide juif) quand elle se positionne sur son eugénisme et ses considérations de races ? Historiquement située comme le Coran dans le désert de l’Arabie du VIIe siècle ?
    Nous oriente-t-elle, malgré* ou avec l’omniprésence de l’amour divin, vers l’épuration des races vers la politique … nazie ?
    L’interprétation trop rapide de la Révélation a-t-elle historiquement fourni -au moins une partie de- la base spirituelle de l’Allemagne nazie ?

     

    Le Père a donné la révélation à un peuple mais le Fils a estimé qu’il fallait mieux faire.

     

    La volonté du … quoi ?

    Encore combien de temps vais-je me laisser insulter de tétard alors que le Royaume du ciel est si proche (par Ta grâce, certes, je ne dis pas le contraire) ?

    Mets pas tes mains sur la table, regarde pas à son Q …

    Freud parlait de tuer le père ? C’est pas moi, c’est Paul 😂

     

    Donc, soit Jésus n’a pas fait la volonté du Père, soit il l’a faite mais celle-ci n’était pas ce que l’on croit. Quel père responsable veut que son fils reste à la maison toute sa vie ?

    La volonté du père est que son fils s’émancipe.

    La révolution française a pourtant constitué son État sur l’Être Suprême … rappelons-le.

    S’émanciper n’est pas nécessairement tuer.

    Que dit Lucifer ?

     

    Fallait bien la poser, celle-là.

     

     

    *

    175:2.1 (1909.1)Le fait que les dirigeants spirituels et les éducateurs religieux de la nation juive rejetèrent jadis les enseignements de Jésus, et conspirèrent pour provoquer sa mort cruelle, n’affecte en rien le statut individuel d’un Juif dans sa position vis-à-vis de Dieu. Ces évènements ne devraient pas inciter ceux qui se disent disciples du Christ à entretenir des préjugés contre les Juifs en tant que compagnons mortels. Les Juifs, en tant que nation et que groupe sociopolitique, ont payé à plein le prix terrible d’avoir rejeté le Prince de la Paix. Il y a longtemps qu’ils ont cessé d’être les porte-flambeaux spirituels de la vérité divine auprès des races de l’humanité. Mais cela ne constitue pas une raison valable pour faire subir, aux descendants individuels de ces Juifs de jadis, les persécutions que leur ont infligées certains prétendus disciples intolérants, indignes et sectaires de Jésus de Nazareth, qui était lui-même un Juif de naissance.

     

    175:2.2 (1909.2)Cette haine et ces persécutions irréfléchies et contraires au modèle christique contre les Juifs contemporains se sont maintes fois terminées par les souffrances et la mort d’un Juif innocent et inoffensif dont les ancêtres, à l’époque de Jésus, avaient sincèrement accepté l’évangile puis moururent stoïquement pour la vérité à laquelle ils croyaient de tout leur cœur. Un frisson d’horreur passe sur les êtres célestes quand ils observent les prétendus disciples de Jésus prendre plaisir à persécuter, harceler et même assassiner les descendants actuels de Pierre, de Philippe, de Matthieu et d’autres Juifs palestiniens qui donnèrent si glorieusement leur vie en tant que premiers martyrs de l’évangile du royaume des cieux !

    175:2.3 (1909.3)Combien il est cruel et stupide de faire souffrir des enfants innocents pour les péchés de leurs ancêtres, méfaits qu’ils ignorent entièrement et dont ils ne peuvent aucunement être responsables ! Et l’on accomplit ces mauvaises actions au nom de celui qui enseigna à ses disciples d’aimer même leurs ennemis ! Dans le présent récit de la vie de Jésus, il était nécessaire de décrire la manière dont certains de ses compatriotes juifs le rejetèrent et conspirèrent pour provoquer sa mort infamante. Mais nous avertissons tous les lecteurs de la présente narration que la présentation de ce récit historique ne justifie en aucune manière la haine injuste et l’attitude mentale inéquitable que tant de prétendus chrétiens ont maintenues au cours des siècles contre des individus Juifs. Il faut que les croyants au royaume, ceux qui suivent les enseignements de Jésus, cessent de maltraiter le Juif en tant qu’individu, en le considérant comme coupable du rejet et de la crucifixion de Jésus. Le Père et son Fils Créateur n’ont jamais cessé d’aimer les Juifs. Dieu ne fait pas acception de personnes, et le salut est destiné aux Juifs aussi bien qu’aux Gentils.

     

    Pulchrum nimis ut sit falsus

  1. 175:1.3 (1905.5)« Nombre d’entre vous ont osé croire à mes enseignements et sont déjà entrés dans la joie et la liberté de la conscience de leur filiation avec. . . .

    Paper 175 The Last Temple Discourse (Paper 175 | Urantia Association) is the opening of this topic. Jesus is speaking:

    “This long time have I been with you, going up and down in the land proclaiming the Father’s love for the children of men, and many have seen the light and, by faith, have entered into the kingdom of heaven. In connection with this teaching and preaching the Father has done many wonderful works, even to the resurrection of the dead. Many sick and afflicted have been made whole because they believed; but all of this proclamation of truth and healing of disease has not opened the eyes of those who refuse to see light, those who are determined to reject this gospel of the kingdom.

     

    “In every manner consistent with doing my Father’s will, I and my apostles have done our utmost to live in peace with our brethren, to conform with the reasonable requirements of the laws of Moses and the traditions of Israel. We have persistently sought peace, but the leaders of Israel will not have it. By rejecting the truth of God and the light of heaven, they are aligning themselves on the side of error and darkness. There cannot be peace between light and darkness, between life and death, between truth and error.

     

    “Many of you have dared to believe my teachings and have already entered into the joy and liberty of the consciousness of sonship with God. And you will bear me witness that I have offered this same sonship with God to all the Jewish nation, even to these very men who now seek my destruction. And even now would my Father receive these blinded teachers and these hypocritical leaders if they would only turn to him and accept his mercy. Even now it is not too late for this people to receive the word of heaven and to welcome the Son of Man.

     

    “My Father has long dealt in mercy with this people. Generation after generation have we sent our prophets to teach and warn them, and generation after generation have they killed these heaven-sent teachers. And now do your willful high priests and stubborn rulers go right on doing this same thing. As Herod brought about the death of John, you likewise now make ready to destroy the Son of Man.

     

    “As long as there is a chance that the Jews will turn to my Father and seek salvation, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will keep his hands of mercy outstretched toward you; but when you have once filled up your cup of impenitence, and when once you have finally rejected my Father’s mercy, this nation will be left to its own counsels, and it shall speedily come to an inglorious end. This people was called to become the light of the world, to show forth the spiritual glory of a God-knowing race, but you have so far departed from the fulfillment of your divine privileges that your leaders are about to commit the supreme folly of all the ages in that they are on the verge of finally rejecting the gift of God to all men and for all ages — the revelation of the love of the Father in heaven for all his creatures on earth.

     

    “And when you do once reject this revelation of God to man, the kingdom of heaven shall be given to other peoples, to those who will receive it with joy and gladness. In the name of the Father who sent me, I solemnly warn you that you are about to lose your position in the world as the standard-bearers of eternal truth and the custodians of the divine law. I am just now offering you your last chance to come forward and repent, to signify your intention to seek God with all your hearts and to enter, like little children and by sincere faith, into the security and salvation of the kingdom of heaven.

     

    “My Father has long worked for your salvation, and I came down to live among you and personally show you the way. Many of both the Jews and the Samaritans, and even the gentiles, have believed the gospel of the kingdom, but those who should be first to come forward and accept the light of heaven have steadfastly refused to believe the revelation of the truth of God — God revealed in man and man uplifted to God.

     

    “This afternoon my apostles stand here before you in silence, but you shall soon hear their voices ringing out with the call to salvation and with the urge to unite with the heavenly kingdom as the sons of the living God. And now I call to witness these, my disciples and believers in the gospel of the kingdom, as well as the unseen messengers by their sides, that I have once more offered Israel and her rulers deliverance and salvation. But you all behold how the Father’s mercy is slighted and how the messengers of truth are rejected. Nevertheless, I admonish you that these scribes and Pharisees still sit in Moses’ seat, and therefore, until the Most Highs who rule in the kingdoms of men shall finally overthrow this nation and destroy the place of these rulers, I bid you co-operate with these elders in Israel. You are not required to unite with them in their plans to destroy the Son of Man, but in everything related to the peace of Israel you are to be subject to them. In all these matters do whatsoever they bid you and observe the essentials of the law but do not pattern after their evil works. Remember, this is the sin of these rulers: They say that which is good, but they do it not. You well know how these leaders bind heavy burdens on your shoulders, burdens grievous to bear, and that they will not lift as much as one finger to help you bear these weighty burdens. They have oppressed you with ceremonies and enslaved you by traditions.

     

    “Furthermore, these self-centered rulers delight in doing their good works so that they will be seen by men. They make broad their phylacteries and enlarge the borders of their official robes. They crave the chief places at the feasts and demand the chief seats in the synagogues. They covet laudatory salutations in the market places and desire to be called rabbi by all men. And even while they seek all this honor from men, they secretly lay hold of widows’ houses and take profit from the services of the sacred temple. For a pretense these hypocrites make long prayers in public and give alms to attract the notice of their fellows.

     

    “While you should honor your rulers and reverence your teachers, you should call no man Father in the spiritual sense, for there is one who is your Father, even God. Neither should you seek to lord it over your brethren in the kingdom. Remember, I have taught you that he who would be greatest among you should become the server of all. If you presume to exalt yourselves before God, you will certainly be humbled; but whoso truly humbles himself will surely be exalted. Seek in your daily lives, not self-glorification, but the glory of God. Intelligently subordinate your own wills to the will of the Father in heaven.

     

    “Mistake not my words. I bear no malice toward these chief priests and rulers who even now seek my destruction; I have no ill will for these scribes and Pharisees who reject my teachings. I know that many of you believe in secret, and I know you will openly profess your allegiance to the kingdom when my hour comes. But how will your rabbis justify themselves since they profess to talk with God and then presume to reject and destroy him who comes to reveal the Father to the worlds?

     

    “Woe upon you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You would shut the doors of the kingdom of heaven against sincere men because they happen to be unlearned in the ways of your teaching. You refuse to enter the kingdom and at the same time do everything within your power to prevent all others from entering. You stand with your backs to the doors of salvation and fight with all who would enter therein.

     

    “Woe upon you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites that you are! for you do indeed encompass land and sea to make one proselyte, and when you have succeeded, you are not content until you have made him twofold worse than he was as a child of the heathen.

     

    “Woe upon you, chief priests and rulers who lay hold of the property of the poor and demand heavy dues of those who would serve God as they think Moses ordained! You who refuse to show mercy, can you hope for mercy in the worlds to come?

     

    “Woe upon you, false teachers, blind guides! What can be expected of a nation when the blind lead the blind? They both shall stumble into the pit of destruction.

     

    “Woe upon you who dissimulate when you take an oath! You are tricksters since you teach that a man may swear by the temple and break his oath, but that whoso swears by the gold in the temple must remain bound. You are all fools and blind. You are not even consistent in your dishonesty, for which is the greater, the gold or the temple which has supposedly sanctified the gold? You also teach that, if a man swears by the altar, it is nothing; but that, if one swears by the gift that is upon the altar, then shall he be held as a debtor. Again are you blind to the truth, for which is the greater, the gift or the altar which sanctifies the gift? How can you justify such hypocrisy and dishonesty in the sight of the God of heaven?

     

    “Woe upon you, scribes and Pharisees and all other hypocrites who make sure that they tithe mint, anise, and cumin and at the same time disregard the weightier matters of the law — faith, mercy, and judgment! Within reason, the one you ought to have done but not to have left the other undone. You are truly blind guides and dumb teachers; you strain out the gnat and swallow the camel.

     

    “Woe upon you, scribes, Pharisees, and hypocrites! for you are scrupulous to cleanse the outside of the cup and the platter, but within there remains the filth of extortion, excesses, and deception. You are spiritually blind. Do you not recognize how much better it would be first to cleanse the inside of the cup, and then that which spills over would of itself cleanse the outside? You wicked reprobates! you make the outward performances of your religion to conform with the letter of your interpretation of Moses’ law while your souls are steeped in iniquity and filled with murder.

     

    “Woe upon all of you who reject truth and spurn mercy! Many of you are like whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear beautiful but within are full of dead men’s bones and all sorts of uncleanness. Even so do you who knowingly reject the counsel of God appear outwardly to men as holy and righteous, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and iniquity.

     

    “Woe upon you, false guides of a nation! Over yonder have you built a monument to the martyred prophets of old, while you plot to destroy Him of whom they spoke. You garnish the tombs of the righteous and flatter yourselves that, had you lived in the days of your fathers, you would not have killed the prophets; and then in the face of such self-righteous thinking you make ready to slay him of whom the prophets spoke, the Son of Man. Inasmuch as you do these things, are you witness to yourselves that you are the wicked sons of them who slew the prophets. Go on, then, and fill up the cup of your condemnation to the full!

     

    “Woe upon you, children of evil! John did truly call you the offspring of vipers, and I ask how can you escape the judgment that John pronounced upon you?

     

    “But even now I offer you in my Father’s name mercy and forgiveness; even now I proffer the loving hand of eternal fellowship. My Father has sent you the wise men and the prophets; some you have persecuted and others you have killed. Then appeared John proclaiming the coming of the Son of Man, and him you destroyed after many had believed his teaching. And now you make ready to shed more innocent blood. Do you not comprehend that a terrible day of reckoning will come when the Judge of all the earth shall require of this people an accounting for the way they have rejected, persecuted, and destroyed these messengers of heaven? Do you not understand that you must account for all of this righteous blood, from the first prophet killed down to the times of Zechariah, who was slain between the sanctuary and the altar? And if you go on in your evil ways, this accounting may be required of this very generation.

     

    “O Jerusalem and the children of Abraham, you who have stoned the prophets and killed the teachers that were sent to you, even now would I gather your children together as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, but you will not!

     

    “And now I take leave of you. You have heard my message and have made your decision. Those who have believed my gospel are even now safe within the kingdom of God. To you who have chosen to reject the gift of God, I say that you will no more see me teaching in the temple. My work for you is done. Behold, I now go forth with my children, and your house is left to you desolate!”

     

    And then the Master beckoned his followers to depart from the temple.

    .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .

    The true perspective of any reality problem. . .

    19:1.6 [Part I]
    Even in the study of man’s biologic evolution on Urantia, there are grave objections to the exclusive historic approach to his present-day status and his current problems. The true perspective of any reality problem — human or divine, terrestrial or cosmic — can be had only by the full and unprejudiced study and correlation of three phases of universe reality: origin, history, and destiny. The proper understanding of these three experiential realities affords the basis for a wise estimate of the current status.

    Let’s advance in our thinking about the universe and our world. We are part of God’s plan – progressive evolution. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

    4:1.2 [Part I]
    Can you not advance in your concept of God’s dealing with man to that level where you recognize that the watchword of the universe is progress? Through long ages the human race has struggled to reach its present position. Throughout all these millenniums Providence has been working out the plan of progressive evolution. The two thoughts are not opposed in practice, only in man’s mistaken concepts. Divine providence is never arrayed in opposition to true human progress, either temporal or spiritual. Providence is always consistent with the unchanging and perfect nature of the supreme Lawmaker.
    56:7.1 [Part II]
    The steady progress of evolution in the time-space universes is accompanied by ever-enlarging revelations of Deity to all intelligent creatures. The attainment of the height of evolutionary progress on a world, in a system, constellation, universe, superuniverse, or in the grand universe signalizes corresponding enlargements of deity function to and in these progressive units of creation. And every such local enhancement of divinity realization is accompanied by certain well-defined repercussions of enlarged deity manifestation to all other sectors of creation. Extending outward from Paradise, each new domain of realized and attained evolution constitutes a new and enlarged revelation of experiential Deity to the universe of universes.
  2. La véritable perspective de tout problème de réalité. . .

    Voudriez-vous expliciter, Mara, le lien qu’il y a à faire entre les que vous proposez après cette phrase et le sujet présent ?

    Je sens bien le report mais je n’arrive pas à l’exprimer

    Pulchrum nimis ut sit falsus

  3. 19:1.6 [Part I]
    Even in the study of man’s biologic evolution on Urantia, there are grave objections to the exclusive historic approach to his present-day status and his current problems. The true perspective of any reality problem — human or divine, terrestrial or cosmic — can be had only by the full and unprejudiced study and correlation of three phases of universe reality: origin, history, and destiny. The proper understanding of these three experiential realities affords the basis for a wise estimate of the current status.
    Friend,
    .

    It is not a shift. Rather, it provides thinkers like you and me an opportunity to get out of the weeds of slicing  history – including the history being made today – into pieces in order to draw conclusions about how bad things were and now are. I am not saying the study of slices of history is irrelevant.  I am not saying history should not be studied. I am saying that to fully comprehend any slice of history to obtain the basis of a wise estimate of a current situation, note what is said in the reference above. I know you want to talk about “Races, eugénisme, nazisme et histoire émotionnelle”.

    La véritable perspective de tout problème de réalité. . .

    .

    I direct you to the title of your topic which you then correlate to the pre-publication years of The Urantia Book. In the scheme of things those particular items you bring up are emotional and hard to understand. It’s important to broaden one’s perspective in my opinion.
    .
    Many humans have narrow perspectives. Faith, yes you and I have faith and we can thank God for it, even while many people settle for an earth-centric universe and the faith-belief that believers will go to Paradise in a snap when Jesus returns. Or not, according to one’s traditions. To me many people take what their religion gives them. End of story. I did not have a similar experience. I did not stand on a proverbial riverbank, seeing only what was in front of me – flowing water. I saw water coming from somewhere, and I wanted to know from where. I saw water  going somewhere and I wanted to know that too. I always wanted to know more. Even now it is a leap of faith to me, because like Bradly, I am a tadpole.  For me faith is the bridge from the past to the future. 
    .
    History is not static. It is made by fallible people – by the so-called kingdoms of men and women every day, just as certainly as the sun rises on the good and the wicked people of earth at dawn.
    .
    2:7.5 [Part I]
    Philosophers commit their gravest error when they are misled into the fallacy of abstraction, the practice of focusing the attention upon one aspect of reality and then of pronouncing such an isolated aspect to be the whole truth. The wise philosopher will always look for the creative design which is behind, and pre-existent to, all universe phenomena. The creator thought invariably precedes creative action.
    In this day and age it is easy to be horrified by visual and reported atrocities. In spite of it let us each in our own way press forward to a better tomorrow.
    .
    I chewed on your topic. I find it a mish-mash of things that bother you. My only idea – response – is to elevate the discussion to coherent UB references in the hope that readers are lifted up in some way. I appreciate that you cited references from the book.
  4. Merci.

    Pulchrum nimis ut sit falsus

  5. Upon re-reading your introductory comments about “Races, eugénisme, nazisme et histoire émotionnelle”, I discovered something in your words which I didn’t pay much attention to.

    filsascendant wrote:

    L’interprétation trop rapide de la Révélation a-t-elle historiquement fourni -au moins une partie de- la base spirituelle de l’Allemagne nazie ?

    [Is it [the revelation] guiding us, despite* or with the omnipresence of divine love, toward racial cleansing and Nazi politics?

    Did the overly hasty interpretation of Revelation historically provide—at least part of—the spiritual basis of Nazi Germany?]

     

    Was the timing of the UB near the time of Hitler’s regime of genocide and the Nazi attempts to make a superior race by eliminating undesirable groups of people the intent of the revelators? I don’t think so. Was there some kind of hasty interpretation of the UB, and I can’t imagine what you mean by that? No.

     

    No.  We’re noT going toward Nazi politics or racial cleansing. I didn’t really want to talk about this Yannick, but there is a big elephant in the room, and I think your questions are reasonable.  The UB was not published until 1955. The UB was not available at any time prior and therefore had no bearing on WW2.  Even as we speak, genocides are occurring at this very moment.  History is littered with groups of people wanting to stamp out other groups of people.  History is important. Taking an historical approach to explain things does not provide us with the whole picture of the all that came before, nor what is yet to come.

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