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Political Ideology

46 posts · 8 participants · started Sep 4, 2015, 3:21 AM

  1. Going back to Bradly’s suggestion that I’m accusing the UB readership of a lack of social/political activism. What I was saying – and have heard other readers say – is that the primary mission of the UB is teaching and spiritual uplift, not dissimilar to the idea that Jesus’s mission was to model the Father to man, and not to make political commentary. I said this is a perspective within the community of UB readers, and having been around them for the last 40 years I’m pretty sure I’m right. I didn’t say it was the prevailing sentiment. My mother subscribed to that notion, so I’m not ‘against’ it. It worked for her and it must work for others. To each his/her own. I guess my suggestion might be that if the belief that ‘the Most Highs rule in the kingdoms of men’ means there’s nothing to concern ourselves with except our own personal spiritual growth, because the celestials will make sure the world is safe enough for that to happen – then, as a community, as ‘Urantians’, it might be the case that we are remiss.  I’m not saying we are; I’m not making that accusation. But there was an accusation of ‘fear mongering’ made in the course of the discussion on the ideological struggle thread. I don’t think it was even aimed at me, but there was an implication that such talk was not spiritually productive.

    As for the interview itself, I did not make any attempt to sound neutral. I knew Sheryl’s position and wanted to reinforce her freedom in making it. Some might say I ‘egged her on’, but that wouldn’t be accurate either. She’s quite capable of speaking her mind without a lot of prodding. Anyway, I thought it was a good example of a person who translates the teachings of the UB into her own form of activism.  I guess a big question in all of this is, ‘So, what is, or should be, the political ideology most consistent with the teaching of The Urantia Book?  Dr. Sadler was a progressivist – not quite a ‘Fighting Bob’ LaFollette type of progressivist, but certainly in the same tent. The UB mentions the word ‘progressive’ 315 times, and (if I’m remembering rightly) the word ‘progress’ and its derivations occur over 1200 times on almost 700 pages (no I’m not saying anything about authorship, influences, or the sleeping subject here).

    Yes, the video was heavily edited. I took out ‘ums’, ‘ahs’, digressions, parentheticals, and so on. It was 11:30 at night after a long day of shooting – down to my last battery on a single camera. But it was that or nothing.  Sorry if she looks like she has Parkinsons. It didn’t look bad on the editing program, but once Youtube gets their hands on it, it degrades; some effects and motion graphics are lost. Vimeo is probably a better option.

    My gender – yes, male. Martine is just my first name with the last name initial on the end. The avatar is my daughter evoking an expression of exasperation, which is an excellent representation of my disposition regarding how the world works.

  2. Martine is male! Good to know.

    Anyone figured out what the Infinite Spirit’s gender is?

    8:1.9 In brief, the Infinite Spirit testifies that, since he is eternal, so also is the central universe eternal.

    And then in 8.2.2, among the Infinite Spirit’s titles is “the Paradise Mother Spirit.” If anyone has other references to the gender of the Third Source and Center, call me interested. Very interested to see where I can imagine deity as female (and communicate that image to people who are begging for access to a divine feminine)

     

    The eternal God is our refuge.
    He is a faithful Creator.

  3. Paper 8 is chock full of references to the Infinite Spirit as ‘he’, so that’s a strong piece of evidence, yet the author does list “the Paradise Mother Spirit” among the Infinite Spirit’s names. It would seem that the Eternal Son (whose titles include ‘the Original Mother-Son’) is more gender-fluid than the Universal Father, and the Infinite Spirit, sometimes called the Paradise Mother Spirit, is still more so.

    The eternal God is our refuge.
    He is a faithful Creator.

  4. Sheesh, sorry I asked :-(   ;-)

    I am not politically active as a TUB reader, I am active as a citizen of USA which is where TUB landed for good reason.

    Indeed, what is the idea-o-logic-al struggle?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology

    ….”Ideology, in the Althusserian sense, is “the imaginary relation to the real conditions of existence.””

    I was banned from Truthbook 3 times, (thank you, I considered it an honor) – last time slapped across the virtual divide for being “high maintenance” after being accused of being an anti-semite for asking a simple question of the yakoff (or wha’ever nom de plume he uses) “What is the Jewish equivalent of the “Just War Doctrine”….go look up that lovely example of NON-TUB readers having an unearned ideological protection against CHRISTIAN TUB readers ON A SITE SUPPOSEDLY DEDICATED TO JESUS CALLED TRUTHBOOK.

    ROTFLMAO

    They throw off anyone who is NOT using TUB for economic “crashes” just like the USA used the Navajo language during WWII. The burden of proof that that is NOT true is on the “innocent” until proven guilty….

    Just War Doctrine[edit]

    The just war doctrine of the Catholic Church – sometimes mistaken as a “just war theory”[16][17] – found in the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church, in paragraph 2309, lists four strict conditions for “legitimate defense by military force”:[18]
    1. the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
    2. all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
    3. there must be serious prospects of success;
    4. the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated (the power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition).

    check, check, check and check…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory

  5. Greetings Martin – you said – “I guess my suggestion might be that if the belief that ‘the Most Highs rule in the kingdoms of men’ means there’s nothing to concern ourselves with except our own personal spiritual growth, because the celestials will make sure the world is safe enough for that to happen – then, as a community, as ‘Urantians’, it might be the case that we are remiss.”

     

    Me here:  What if the primary purpose of the UB is personal religious growth in the spirit by the elimination of error and reduction of confusion and expansion of perspective, and the result is a more robust/active citizen who is confident in their personal destiny and the destiny of the planet in the hands of the Most Highs and in their relationship with God ?  I’m having difficulty understanding why you might think that confidence in the Most Highs equates to disinterest or disengagement from the world.  Certainly this is not a teaching from the book itself.

    Another issue to consider is that there are many forms of activism and service which are not necessarily “political”.  Political activism is but one form of activism and politics should be, and often is, a form of true service but service takes on many forms.  Many UB students are not active in the  “movement” (don’t join organizations, attend study groups or conferences, donate money, etc. or promote dissemination of the book and teachings); my guess is far more than the many thousands who do.

    So I am very uncertain as to your meaning here Martin.  But the book itself is quite clear – we are to be engaged in service as an expression of our circle progress in spirit and we should be engaged by a desire to serve others in love and not by rule or instruction.  It is an outworking of the inward life.  Or so I think.  Evidently, and obviously, others think differently.  Thanks for the reply Martin.  And I certainly agree that I or any other student and religionist should be concerned about others and our communities and our world and should act on that concern as the Master did and exhorted all believers to as well.

    :-)

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  6. For any who may have missed it, here’s a link to another interview by Martin of another sister posted here on the Forum:

    https://urassoc.arko.nyc/forums/topic/lynne-kulieke-on-the-urantia-book/

    :good:

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  7. Thanks for the reasoned responses (although I must have missed something in relation to the Sabinatu post). Anyway, I may post this separately, but here’s something a lot less theoretical, and I hope no less interesting:

     

  8. No problem, martine, with you missing something about me – thanks for asking for a clarification on what it is you do not understand.

    I am also not getting what you are doing, either, other than putting together opinions from TUB readers where the only qualification is that they are known and verified by – whom? – to be TUB readers.  God is no respecter of persons….right?

    Nothing so far is clearing up for me what “ideologies” are struggling against each other.  Even Mara’s contribution is not clearing it up:

    What I gather from the following reference is that their are many ideologies, systems of government, many constitutions and/or charters of civil authority and many systems of administrative procedure.  And that is because we live on a diverse world.
    ( 70:12:5)  Urantia mortals are entitled to liberty; they should create their systems of government; they should adopt their constitutions or other charters of civil authority and administrative procedure. And having done this, they should select their most competent and worthy fellows as chief executives. For representatives in the legislative branch they should elect only those who are qualified intellectually and morally to fulfill such sacred responsibilities. As judges of their high and supreme tribunals only those who are endowed with natural ability and who have been made wise by replete experience should be chosen.

    I do not believe that what I am involved in is “politics”. I am seeking to be of service and in service to a fellow group of believers looking to re-establish experientially earned rule of law, at least amongst ourselves, and get a divorce from the Predators who practice Nihilism, Hedonism and Anarchy. Simple. A quote from TUB and a clip from huffingtonpost to clarify the “irreconcilable differences that warrant that divorce:

    68:2.11 (766.1) Vanity contributed mightily to the birth of society; but at the time of these revelations the devious strivings of a vainglorious generation threaten to swamp and submerge the whole complicated structure of a highly specialized civilization. Pleasure-want has long since superseded hunger-want; the legitimate social aims of self-maintenance are rapidly translating themselves into base and threatening forms of self-gratification. Self-maintenance builds society; unbridled self-gratification unfailingly destroys civilization.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/geithner-rubin-paulson-income-inequality_55e9eabde4b093be51bb73c3

    I guess a Peace Doctrine (see our re-invent Christianity discussion on this board for a reference) that replaces the Atonement Doctrine needs the self-maintenance boundaries of a Just War Doctrine. Too much damage and too permanent and if only 1% of your liver has cancer, are you going to watch while 50% is destroyed (which is what we have been doing, imo)?

    So do TUB readers have a common this-or-that ideological struggle in USA that they want to take on as TUB readers and not as citizens of USA? Then come out of the shadows because based on any sincere discussions about what is actually in TUB, TUB readers need a whole lot of self-correction about what they think they understand as “God’s Will”.

  9. Perhaps a review of this teaching conference will shed some light on the subject. (140:8:2)

      1. Doing the Father’s will. Jesus’ teaching to trust in the overcare of the heavenly Father was not a blind and passive fatalism. He quoted with approval, on this afternoon, an old Hebrew saying: “He who will not work shall not eat.” He pointed to his own experience as sufficient commentary on his teachings. His precepts about trusting the Father must not be adjudged by the social or economic conditions of modern times or any other age. His instruction embraces the ideal principles of living near God in all ages and on all worlds.

    .

    Jesus made clear to the three the difference between the requirements of apostleship and discipleship. And even then he did not forbid the exercise of prudence and foresight by the twelve. What he preached against was not forethought but anxiety, worry. He taught the active and alert submission to God’s will. In answer to many of their questions regarding frugality and thriftiness, he simply called attention to his life as carpenter, boatmaker, and fisherman, and to his careful organization of the twelve. He sought to make it clear that the world is not to be regarded as an enemy; that the circumstances of life constitute a divine dispensation working along with the children of God.

    .

    Jesus had great difficulty in getting them to understand his personal practice of nonresistance. He absolutely refused to defend himself, and it appeared to the apostles that he would be pleased if they would pursue the same policy. He taught them not to resist evil, not to combat injustice or injury, but he did not teach passive tolerance of wrongdoing. And he made it plain on this afternoon that he approved of the social punishment of evildoers and criminals, and that the civil government must sometimes employ force for the maintenance of social order and in the execution of justice.

    .

    He never ceased to warn his disciples against the evil practice of retaliation; he made no allowance for revenge, the idea of getting even. He deplored the holding of grudges. He disallowed the idea of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. He discountenanced the whole concept of private and personal revenge, assigning these matters to civil government, on the one hand, and to the judgment of God, on the other. He made it clear to the three that his teachings applied to the individual, not the state. He summarized his instructions up to that time regarding these matters, as:

    .

     Love your enemies–remember the moral claims of human brotherhood.

    The futility of evil: A wrong is not righted by vengeance. Do not make the mistake of fighting evil with its own weapons.

    Have faith–confidence in the eventual triumph of divine justice and eternal goodness.

    .

    2. Political attitude. He cautioned his apostles to be discreet in their remarks concerning the strained relations then existing between the Jewish people and the Roman government; he forbade them to become in any way embroiled in these difficulties. He was always careful to avoid the political snares of his enemies, ever making reply, “Render to Caesar the things which are Caesar’s and to God the things which are God’s.” He refused to have his attention diverted from his mission of establishing a new way of salvation; he would not permit himself to be concerned about anything else. In his personal life he was always duly observant of all civil laws and regulations; in all his public teachings he ignored the civic, social, and economic realms. He told the three apostles that he was concerned only with the principles of man’s inner and personal spiritual life.

    .

    Jesus was not, therefore, a political reformer. He did not come to reorganize the world; even if he had done this, it would have been applicable only to that day and generation. Nevertheless, he did show man the best way of living, and no generation is exempt from the labor of discovering how best to adapt Jesus’ life to its own problems. But never make the mistake of identifying Jesus’ teachings with any political or economic theory, with any social or industrial system.

    .

     

  10. Mara wrote:. . . will shed some light on the subject. (140:8:2)
    . . . continuing. . .
    3. Social attitude. The Jewish rabbis had long debated the question: Who is my neighbor? Jesus came presenting the idea of active and spontaneous kindness, a love of one’s fellow men so genuine that it expanded the neighborhood to include the whole world, thereby making all men one’s neighbors. But with all this, Jesus was interested only in the individual, not the mass. Jesus was not a sociologist, but he did labor to break down all forms of selfish isolation. He taught pure sympathy, compassion. Michael of Nebadon is a mercy-dominated Son; compassion is his very nature.
    .
    The Master did not say that men should never entertain their friends at meat, but he did say that his followers should make feasts for the poor and the unfortunate. Jesus had a firm sense of justice, but it was always tempered with mercy. He did not teach his apostles that they were to be imposed upon by social parasites or professional alms-seekers. The nearest he came to making sociological pronouncements was to say, “Judge not, that you be not judged.”
    .
    He made it clear that indiscriminate kindness may be blamed for many social evils. The following day Jesus definitely instructed Judas that no apostolic funds were to be given out as alms except upon his request or upon the joint petition of two of the apostles. In all these matters it was the practice of Jesus always to say, “Be as wise as serpents but as harmless as doves.” It seemed to be his purpose in all social situations to teach patience, tolerance, and forgiveness.
    .
    The family occupied the very center of Jesus’ philosophy of life–here and hereafter. He based his teachings about God on the family, while he sought to correct the Jewish tendency to overhonor ancestors. He exalted family life as the highest human duty but made it plain that family relationships must not interfere with religious obligations. He called attention to the fact that the family is a temporal institution; that it does not survive death. Jesus did not hesitate to give up his family when the family ran counter to the Father’s will. He taught the new and larger brotherhood of man–the sons of God. In Jesus’ time divorce practices were lax in Palestine and throughout the Roman Empire. He repeatedly refused to lay down laws regarding marriage and divorce, but many of Jesus’ early followers had strong opinions on divorce and did not hesitate to attribute them to him. All of the New Testament writers held to these more stringent and advanced ideas about divorce except John Mark.
    .
    4. Economic attitude. Jesus worked, lived, and traded in the world as he found it. He was not an economic reformer, although he did frequently call attention to the injustice of the unequal distribution of wealth. But he did not offer any suggestions by way of remedy. He made it plain to the three that, while his apostles were not to hold property, he was not preaching against wealth and property, merely its unequal and unfair distribution. He recognized the need for social justice and industrial fairness, but he offered no rules for their attainment.
    .
    He never taught his followers to avoid earthly possessions, only his twelve apostles. Luke, the physician, was a strong believer in social equality, and he did much to interpret Jesus’ sayings in harmony with his personal beliefs. Jesus never personally directed his followers to adopt a communal mode of life; he made no pronouncement of any sort regarding such matters.
    .
    Jesus frequently warned his listeners against covetousness, declaring that “a man’s happiness consists not in the abundance of his material possessions.” He constantly reiterated, “What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul?” He made no direct attack on the possession of property, but he did insist that it is eternally essential that spiritual values come first. In his later teachings he sought to correct many erroneous Urantia views of life by narrating numerous parables which he presented in the course of his public ministry. Jesus never intended to formulate economic theories; he well knew that each age must evolve its own remedies for existing troubles. And if Jesus were on earth today, living his life in the flesh, he would be a great disappointment to the majority of good men and women for the simple reason that he would not take sides in present-day political, social, or economic disputes. He would remain grandly aloof while teaching you how to perfect your inner spiritual life so as to render you manyfold more competent to attack the solution of your purely human problems.
    .
    Jesus would make all men Godlike and then stand by sympathetically while these sons of God solve their own political, social, and economic problems. It was not wealth that he denounced, but what wealth does to the majority of its devotees. On this Thursday afternoon Jesus first told his associates that “it is more blessed to give than to receive.”
    .
    5. Personal religion. You, as did his apostles, should the better understand Jesus’ teachings by his life. He lived a perfected life on Urantia, and his unique teachings can only be understood when that life is visualized in its immediate background. It is his life, and not his lessons to the twelve or his sermons to the multitudes, that will assist most in revealing the Father’s divine character and loving personality.
    .
    Jesus did not attack the teachings of the Hebrew prophets or the Greek moralists. The Master recognized the many good things which these great teachers stood for, but he had come down to earth to teach something additional, “the voluntary conformity of man’s will to God’s will.” Jesus did not want simply to produce a religious man, a mortal wholly occupied with religious feelings and actuated only by spiritual impulses. Could you have had but one look at him, you would have known that Jesus was a real man of great experience in the things of this world. The teachings of Jesus in this respect have been grossly perverted and much misrepresented all down through the centuries of the Christian era; you have also held perverted ideas about the Master’s meekness and humility. What he aimed at in his life appears to have been a superb self-respect. He only advised man to humble himself that he might become truly exalted; what he really aimed at was true humility toward God. He placed great value upon sincerity–a pure heart. Fidelity was a cardinal virtue in his estimate of character, while courage was the very heart of his teachings. “Fear not” was his watchword, and patient endurance his ideal of strength of character. The teachings of Jesus constitute a religion of valor, courage, and heroism. And this is just why he chose as his personal representatives twelve commonplace men, the majority of whom were rugged, virile, and manly fishermen.
    .
    Jesus had little to say about the social vices of his day; seldom did he make reference to moral delinquency. He was a positive teacher of true virtue. He studiously avoided the negative method of imparting instruction; he refused to advertise evil. He was not even a moral reformer. He well knew, and so taught his apostles, that the sensual urges of mankind are not suppressed by either religious rebuke or legal prohibitions. His few denunciations were largely directed against pride, cruelty, oppression, and hypocrisy.
    .
    Jesus did not vehemently denounce even the Pharisees, as did John. He knew many of the scribes and Pharisees were honest of heart; he understood their enslaving bondage to religious traditions. Jesus laid great emphasis on “first making the tree good.” He impressed the three that he valued the whole life, not just a certain few special virtues.
    .
    ( 140:8:31 ) The Master offered no solutions for the nonreligious problems of his own age nor for any subsequent age. Jesus wished to develop spiritual insight into eternal realities and to stimulate initiative in the originality of living; he concerned himself exclusively with the underlying and permanent spiritual needs of the human race. He revealed a goodness equal to God. He exalted love–truth, beauty, and goodness–as the divine ideal and the eternal reality.
    .
    (140:8:32) The Master came to create in man a new spirit, a new will–to impart a new capacity for knowing the truth, experiencing compassion, and choosing goodness–the will to be in harmony with God’s will, coupled with the eternal urge to become perfect, even as the Father in heaven is perfect.
    .
  11. Bradly wrote:. . . the primary purpose of the UB is personal religious growth in the spirit by the elimination of error and reduction of confusion and expansion of perspective, and the result is a more robust/active citizen who is confident in their personal destiny and the destiny of the planet in the hands of the Most Highs and in their relationship with God
    Ah men, ah women!  But hey, the apostles were always dragging down to the material and temporal level the exalted teachings of the Master.  This happens occasionally in study group too.  Back when I was in a cult the teachers were always trying to bend the bible this way n that to fit it into astrology woo-woo.  I don’t know why, though I can guesstimate some reasons from my own experience.  Maybe the fallacy of abstraction is at play. (2:7:5)  Or maybe it’s a I-want-to-be-in-control-of the issue issue.  Or maybe it’s a I-want-a-political-economic-social-fixit-recipe issue.  Or maybe it is a I-want-you-to-tell-me-what-to-do issue.  The revelators tell us there are few real thinkers (110:7:6) because we do not spiritually develop and discipline our minds to the point of favorable liaison with the divine Adjusters.
    .
    Here’s an example of Thomas’ problem of dragging His teachings down to material affairs.
    .
    ( 142:7:17) Jesus replied: “Thomas, Thomas, how long before you will acquire the ability to listen with the ear of the spirit? How long will it be before you discern that this kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, and that my Father is also a spiritual being? Do you not understand that I am teaching you as spiritual children in the spirit family of heaven, of which the fatherhead is an infinite and eternal spirit? Will you not allow me to use the earth family as an illustration of divine relationships without so literally applying my teaching to material affairs? In your minds cannot you separate the spiritual realities of the kingdom from the material, social, economic, and political problems of the age? When I speak the language of the spirit, why do you insist on translating my meaning into the language of the flesh just because I presume to employ commonplace and literal relationships for purposes of illustration?  My children, I implore that you cease to apply the teaching of the kingdom of the spirit to the sordid affairs of slavery, poverty, houses, and lands, and to the material problems of human equity and justice. These temporal matters are the concern of the men of this world, and while in a way they affect all men, you have been called to represent me in the world, even as I represent my Father. You are spiritual ambassadors of a spiritual kingdom, special representatives of the spirit Father. By this time it should be possible for me to instruct you as full-grown men of the spirit kingdom. Must I ever address you only as children? Will you never grow up in spirit perception? Nevertheless, I love you and will bear with you, even to the very end of our association in the flesh. And even then shall my spirit go before you into all the world.”
    .
     .
    (111:1:6) Mind is the cosmic instrument on which the human will can play the discords of destruction, or upon which this same human will can bring forth the exquisite melodies of God identification and consequent eternal survival. The Adjuster bestowed upon man is, in the last analysis, impervious to evil and incapable of sin, but mortal mind can actually be twisted, distorted, and rendered evil and ugly by the sinful machinations of a perverse and self-seeking human will. Likewise can this mind be made noble, beautiful, true, and good–actually great–in accordance with the spirit-illuminated will of a God-knowing human being.
    .
    I think the best plan is be self-disciplined enough to keep your/my mind out of the weeds.
  12. Thanks Mara….for getting my point and all the supporting text.  I have noticed some students who seem transfixed and anxious about this political or social or economic malady or that one (plenty enough to choose from to be sure) and seem intensely focused on blaming or condemning this, that, or the other for the state of our current evolutionary progress (or lack thereof).

    But the readership enjoys a full spectrum of political positions and philosophies, making politics a more divisive set of issues than it provides any unifying or uniting opportunity.  All such maladies are mere symptoms of evolution and the much larger and urgent need for individuals to focus on personal spirit progress and the demonstration of the fruits of the spirit.

    Which is not to say each religionist should shun or ignore the problems of this world.  But we should place less emphasis IMO on political and social “solutions” to the problem as such so called solutions will always inevitably deliver further  unforeseen consequences due to the immaturity and lack of wisdom applied.  Love is the solution….to everything.  Those who live in anxiety, fear, and anger regarding politics and economics merely avoid the true mission of the UB and the true value in the primary solution to progress through the mortal epochs – more love from and for more people.  Or so I see it.

    Thanks again Mara for your voice and your scholarship here.

    :good:

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  13. I’ll take all this to mean that “The Most Highs” do not have a conflict in “ideologies” among themselves – to be clear, I am talking about the REAL “Most Highs” ala TUB, not the code-talker spin use of that term among “long time readers”…

    Part III – The History of Urantia – coming as it does before Part IV – The Life and Teachings of Jesus – must mean that all the “government” discussion and wise suggestions in Part III are meant to place the HUMAN LIFE of Jesus in a new cosmic context.

    So if you are going to discuss “government” ideologies, what’s with the incessant schtick meant to suppress the KNOWLEDGE that whoever long time TUB readers think the “Most Highs” are, they are WRONG. Faux “most highs”, must be something they smoked ;-)

    So we have a FALSE “Christianity” based on an unreal Atonement Doctrine, infiltrated by “what is torture when greed is good” iniquity, and somehow NO ONE IN USA, all of a sudden with the REVOLUTIONARY passage of The Patriot Act, is allowed to question whether a GOVERNMENT is cosmically insane if it is not willing to enforce experientially earned RULE OF LAW against degenerate depraved sadistic materialists – GLOBAL War, Drug and Slave Lords –  SEE ALL OF PART III in TUB – because that is what Jesus would do – nothing?  And he told his Apostles to do nothing….?!

    Jesus serves as an inspiration in all this for the same reason He picked Urantia to begin with – the MAXIMUM contrast.  How can you philosophically argue FOR Nihilism, Hedonism and Anarchy without looking cosmically insane yourself to NORMAL minds?

    So I’ll be playing by the same rules as Bradley and Mara have been playing by, not the different set of rules I am supposed to play by…may the best man win – which we all have “faith” that will happen, right?  Spiritual unity and all that jazz…

  14. Sabinatu wrote:. . . conflict. . .
    Maybe these can soften the penchant for seeing things in negatives.
    ( 4:1:2 ) Can you not advance in your concept of God’s dealing with man to that level where you recognize that the watchword of the universe is progress? Through long ages the human race has struggled to reach its present position. Throughout all these millenniums Providence has been working out the plan of progressive evolution. The two thoughts are not opposed in practice, only in man’s mistaken concepts. Divine providence is never arrayed in opposition to true human progress, either temporal or spiritual. Providence is always consistent with the unchanging and perfect nature of the supreme Lawmaker.
    .
    .
    (4:1:11) I [a Divine Counselor of Uversa] am inclined to believe that it is this far-flung and generally unrecognizable control of the co-ordination and interassociation of all phases and forms of universe activity that causes such a variegated and apparently hopelessly confused medley of physical, mental, moral, and spiritual phenomena so unerringly to work out to the glory of God and for the good of men and angels.
    .
    .
    (4:2:7) The apparent defects of the natural world are not indicative of any such corresponding defects in the character of God. Rather are such observed imperfections merely the inevitable stop-moments in the exhibition of the ever-moving reel of infinity picturization. It is these very defect-interruptions of perfection-continuity which make it possible for the finite mind of material man to catch a fleeting glimpse of divine reality in time and space. The material manifestations of divinity appear defective to the evolutionary mind of man only because mortal man persists in viewing the phenomena of nature through natural eyes, human vision unaided by morontia mota or by revelation, its compensatory substitute on the worlds of time.
    .
    .
    ( 4:3:2) The eternal God is incapable of wrath and anger in the sense of these human emotions and as man understands such reactions. These sentiments are mean and despicable; they are hardly worthy of being called human, much less divine; and such attitudes are utterly foreign to the perfect nature and gracious character of the Universal Father.
    .
    .
    ( 4:4:9) The consciousness of a victorious human life on earth is born of that creature faith which dares to challenge each recurring episode of existence when confronted with the awful spectacle of human limitations, by the unfailing declaration: Even if I cannot do this, there lives in me one who can and will do it, a part of the Father-Absolute of the universe of universes. And that is “the victory which overcomes the world, even your faith.”
    .
    When I was a kid traveling with my family on a road trip, I’d ask, “Are we there yet?” or alternately, “When are we going to get there?” or “How much farther is it?”  Such impatience, such immaturity.  It’s laughable to look back at childhood and silly things like that.  Kids are in a hurry to be grown up, as though it were possible to skip the drawn out process of growth.
    ( 55:6:9) If the mortals of distraught Urantia could only view one of these more advanced worlds long settled in light and life, they would nevermore question the wisdom of the evolutionary scheme of creation. Were there no future of eternal creature progression, still the superb evolutionary attainments of the mortal races on such settled worlds of perfected achievement would amply justify man’s creation on the worlds of time and space.
    .
    Advanced worlds didn’t suddenly get that way.  There is no way to foreshorten the natural, slow, and sure way of accomplishing the divine purposes on our world, socially, economically or politically.  ” The only technique for accelerating the natural trend of social evolution is that of applying spiritual pressure from above, thus augmenting moral insight while enhancing the soul capacity of every mortal to understand and love every other mortal. Mutual understanding and fraternal love are transcendent civilizers and mighty factors in the world-wide realization of the brotherhood of man.” (52:6:7)
  15. Spin spin spin….what was the topic?

    Ah, yes – IDEOLOGY – and the “conflict”.

    I am sure progress won’t happen at all if the MESSENGERS of “progress” are censored by the social fashion that states it is NEGATIVE to see reality.

    I challenge you all to come up with ANYTHING in TUB to back your premise that experientially earned RULE OF LAW not being enforced is PROGRESS.

  16. “Reality” cannot be viewed through the lense of anger and temporal impatience.  Your politics ain’t mine.  Not hearing the love….any love at all.

    146:3.6 (1642.2) “While you cannot observe the divine spirit at work in your minds, there is a practical method of discovering the degree to which you have yielded the control of your soul powers to the teaching and guidance of this indwelling spirit of the heavenly Father, and that is the degree of your love for your fellow men. This spirit of the Father partakes of the love of the Father, and as it dominates man, it unfailingly leads in the directions of divine worship and loving regard for one’s fellows. At first you believe that you are sons of God because my teaching has made you more conscious of the inner leadings of our Father’s indwelling presence; but presently the Spirit of Truth shall be poured out upon all flesh, and it will live among men and teach all men, even as I now live among you and speak to you the words of truth. And this Spirit of Truth, speaking for the spiritual endowments of your souls, will help you to know that you are the sons of God. It will unfailingly bear witness with the Father’s indwelling presence, your spirit, then dwelling in all men as it now dwells in some, telling you that you are in reality the sons of God.

    “Revolution”

    You say you want a revolution
    Well, you know
    We all want to change the world
    You tell me that it’s evolution
    Well, you know
    We all want to change the world

    But when you talk about destruction
    Don’t you know that you can count me out

    Don’t you know it’s gonna be alright
    Alright, alright

    You say you got a real solution
    Well, you know
    We’d all love to see the plan
    You ask me for a contribution
    Well, you know
    We’re all doing what we can

    But if you want money for people with minds that hate
    All I can tell you is brother you have to wait

    Don’t you know it’s gonna be alright
    Alright, alright, al…

    You say you’ll change the constitution
    Well, you know
    We all want to change your head
    You tell me it’s the institution
    Well, you know
    You’d better free your mind instead

    But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
    You ain’t going to make it with anyone anyhow

    Don’t you know know it’s gonna be alright
    Alright, alright

    Alright, alright
    Alright, alright
    Alright, alright
    Alright, alright

    ;-)    Best wishes in your revolution.  Once you get your way with America, you’ll be 5% done!  The rest of the 95% to go!  Better hurry….

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  17. Bradly wrote:  “Reality” cannot be viewed through the lense of anger and temporal impatience. Your politics ain’t mine. Not hearing the love….any love at all.
    .
    I was thinking along the same lines as you.  You know farm life.  Me too.  Did ya ever have a horse who has the bit in its teeth n takes off at a run? Or a horse that chews the fence?  But then, horses are animals and are not encircuited in the 6th of 7th adjutant mind spirits.  No. They just have bad habits.
    .
  18. You say you want a revolution Well, you know We all want to change the world

    LOL. Hear, hear, Bradly.

    The eternal God is our refuge.
    He is a faithful Creator.

  19. Speaking of humor in the face of evil:

    159:3.10 (1766.6) You shall not portray your teacher as a man of sorrows. Future generations shall know also the radiance of our joy, the buoyance of our good will, and the inspiration of our good humor. We proclaim a message of good news which is infectious in its transforming power. Our religion is throbbing with new life and new meanings. Those who accept this teaching are filled with joy and in their hearts are constrained to rejoice evermore. Increasing happiness is always the experience of all who are certain about God.

    100:6.4 (1100.6) The self has surrendered to the intriguing drive of an all-encompassing motivation which imposes heightened self-discipline, lessens emotional conflict, and makes mortal life truly worth living. The morbid recognition of human limitations is changed to the natural consciousness of mortal shortcomings, associated with moral determination and spiritual aspiration to attain the highest universe and superuniverse goals. And this intense striving for the attainment of supermortal ideals is always characterized by increasing patience, forbearance, fortitude, and tolerance.

    100:6.5 (1100.7) But true religion is a living love, a life of service. The religionist’s detachment from much that is purely temporal and trivial never leads to social isolation, and it should not destroy the sense of humor. Genuine religion takes nothing away from human existence, but it does add new meanings to all of life; it generates new types of enthusiasm, zeal, and courage. It may even engender the spirit of the crusader, which is more than dangerous if not controlled by spiritual insight and loyal devotion to the commonplace social obligations of human loyalties.

    100:6.6 (1101.1) One of the most amazing earmarks of religious living is that dynamic and sublime peace, that peace which passes all human understanding, that cosmic poise which betokens the absence of all doubt and turmoil. Such levels of spiritual stability are immune to disappointment. Such religionists are like the Apostle Paul, who said: “I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else shall be able to separate us from the love of God.”

    100:6.7 (1101.2) There is a sense of security, associated with the realization of triumphing glory, resident in the consciousness of the religionist who has grasped the reality of the Supreme, and who pursues the goal of the Ultimate.

    48:4.15 (549.2) When we are tempted to magnify our self-importance, if we stop to contemplate the infinity of the greatness and grandeur of our Makers, our own self-glorification becomes sublimely ridiculous, even verging on the humorous. One of the functions of humor is to help all of us take ourselves less seriously. Humor is the divine antidote for exaltation of ego.

    48:4.16 (549.3) The need for the relaxation and diversion of humor is greatest in those orders of ascendant beings who are subjected to sustained stress in their upward struggles. The two extremes of life have little need for humorous diversions. Primitive men have no capacity therefor, and beings of Paradise perfection have no need thereof. The hosts of Havona are naturally a joyous and exhilarating assemblage of supremely happy personalities. On Paradise the quality of worship obviates the necessity for reversion activities. But among those who start their careers far below the goal of Paradise perfection, there is a large place for the ministry of the reversion directors.

    48:4.17 (549.4) The higher the mortal species, the greater the stress and the greater the capacity for humor as well as the necessity for it. In the spirit world the opposite is true: The higher we ascend, the less the need for the diversions of reversion experiences. But proceeding down the scale of spirit life from Paradise to the seraphic hosts, there is an increasing need for the mission of mirth and the ministry of merriment. Those beings who most need the refreshment of periodic reversion to the intellectual status of previous experiences are the higher types of the human species, the morontians, angels, and the Material Sons, together with all similar types of personality. *

    48:4.18 (549.5) Humor should function as an automatic safety valve to prevent the building up of excessive pressures due to the monotony of sustained and serious self-contemplation in association with the intense struggle for developmental progress and noble achievement. Humor also functions to lessen the shock of the unexpected impact of fact or of truth, rigid unyielding fact and flexible ever-living truth. The mortal personality, never sure as to which will next be encountered, through humor swiftly grasps — sees the point and achieves insight — the unexpected nature of the situation be it fact or be it truth.

    :-( :-)   :good:   ;-)

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  20. So I wrote, “….I challenge you all to come up with ANYTHING in TUB to back your premise that experientially earned RULE OF LAW not being enforced is PROGRESS…”

    And how did you two (Mara and Bradley) answer that challenge?

    But anyone can read what you two have written on this board over the years and figure out your “politics”.

     

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