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Outer space levels

9 posts · 2 participants · started Nov 13, 2024, 11:44 AM

  1. Hi All,

    I need help with an issue about the outer space levels. First, some context. From Paper 57:2.2,

    “800,000,000,000 years ago the Andronover creation was well established as one of the magnificent primary nebulae of Orvonton. As the astronomers of near-by universes looked out upon this phenomenon of space, they saw very little to attract their attention. Gravity estimates made in adjacent creations indicated that space materializations were taking place in the Andronover regions, but that was all.” (57:2.2)

    If “astronomers of near-by universes” could only detect this “magnificent primary nebula of Orvonton” by “gravity estimates“, does this mean it had not yet evolved to the point of emitting light? In other words, while this magnificent primary nebula was massive enough to cause gravitational effects, was it still an invisible (dark) disk of ultimata, with little or no gravita ?

    I mention this because it seems to imply that only certain beings (e.g. force organizers) are able to detect those primitive forms of mass-energy (segregata and ultimata). This ability to detect the presence and distribution of segregata (“primordial force charge”) will become important in a moment.

    In this next quote, the revelators give us that clear description of a size and shape for the first outer space level:

    “But about one-half million light-years beyond the periphery of the present grand universe we observe the beginnings of a zone of an unbelievable energy action which increases in volume and intensity for over twenty-five million light-years. These tremendous wheels of energizing forces are situated in the first outer space level, a continuous belt of cosmic activity encircling the whole of the known, organized, and inhabited creation.” (12:1.14)

    And in the next paragraph, they mention the second OS level:

    “Still greater activities are taking place beyond these regions, for the Uversa physicists have detected early evidence of force manifestations more than fifty million light-years beyond the outermost ranges of the phenomena in the first outer space level. These activities undoubtedly presage the organization of the material creations of the second outer space level of the master universe.” (12:1.15)

    But then in 12:4.15, they mention a “second outer universe of galaxies“:

    “It appears that the second outer universe of galaxies, like the seven superuniverses, revolves counterclockwise about Paradise.” (12:4.15)

    So here’s the question: when the revelators write that “Uversa physicists have detected early evidence of force manifestations” 50 MLY beyond the outer edge of the first OS level, are they are saying that “Uversa physicists” are able to detect (at about 75 MLY) the first signs of invisible segregata indicating the inner edge of the second outer level? Or are they implying that there is nothing in the second OS level except “early evidence of force manifestations“?

    If the former, then this fits PERFECTLY with what native astronomers have now discovered. But if the latter, then what do you think they mean by: “the second outer universe of galaxies“?

    thanks for any insight!
    Nigel

  2. Well Nigel, I’m gratified to even consider the possibility that there were astronomers 800 billion years ago! Who knows what the universe will look like 800 billion years from now? Native astronomers are constrained to observe from our limited viewpoint on the plane of planetary existence. Uversa physicists aren’t so constrained as all that because they are beyond planetary existence and even morontia existence as well. I firmly believe that someday you will continue your studies as a citizen of Jerusem where you’ll discover with other star students the answers to your questions.

    Randy

    Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.

  3. Hi Randy,

    There’s a reason for drawing our attention to those few paragraphs.

    If we read 12:1.15 as saying that “more than fifty million light-years beyond” the first outer space level, “Uversa physicists” detect the inner edge of the distribution of (invisible) segregata and ultimata that then “increases in volume and intensity” to embrace the entire “second outer universe of galaxies“, then this is “well nigh” EXACTLY what native astronomers have actually discovered!

    Nigel

     

  4. Greetings Nigel!

    Sorry it has taken this long to respond. There were some technical issues with my new computer I had to resolve. I believe some users of Windows 11 call it “blue screen death.” They’ve been resolved and I remain interested in this discussion.

    Paper 12 is purportedly authored by a Perfector of Wisdom temporarily visiting Uversa. I understand that you believe native astronomers have more or less discovered evidence of both the first and second outer space levels. Perhaps it is so. Because of our mortal nature, a “brief glimpse” based on our advancing technology is probably the best we can hope to achieve of matters well beyond physical reality. Or to put it another way, we are constrained to view “The Orvonton Hotel” from the third floor. Whereas the Perfector of Wisdom and Uversa physicists view this phenomenon from “The Seventh Floor of The Orvonton Hotel.” It is my understanding that you are a particle physicist. If so, as a student of The Urantia Book, you are understandably intrigued  by the science presented in the Fifth Epochal Revelation. No, I’m not a scientist, but I share your interest. In my opinion, the point at which the Ultimaton becomes measureable represents “The First Floor of The Orvonton Hotel.” If I understand correctly, what happens concerning Segregata and Ultimata  as well as all phenomenon responsive to Paradise Gravity takes place on “The Eighth Floor” outside of “The Orvonton Hotel.” Perhaps the term “hyper-space” might be more appropriate. By logical extension, all that happens that is responsive to local/linear gravity takes place on “The Basement” below “The Orvonton Hotel.” This is a level of reality shared by all “Hotels” of the Grand Universe. Perhaps the term “sub-space” might be more appropriate.

    Consider researchers looking at a microscopic organism. In my opinion, they are looking at “The Second Floor of The Orvonton Hotel.” By comparison, our mortal lives are much longer than an amoeba for example. We were not aware of this level of reality until our advancing technology made it possible. Not only are our mortal lives longer, our everyday reality takes up much more space. In my opinion, this same pattern applies to each successively higher level of reality. Those beings who reside on “The Fourth Floor of The Orvonton Hotel” (i.e. Citizens of Satania”) live longer and take up more space than we do. It’s all relative, right Nigel?

    Wishing you all the best,

    Randy

    Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.

  5. Nigel,

    I hope you don’t mind, but I went ahead and downloaded 8 of your PDF files representing your most instructive video so that I may study them off-line. They remind me of an in-class power point presentation most of my instructors used in college to lecture. A few things do come to mind.

    The PATTERN of The Paradise Hotel is Absolute and applies to all levels of reality. There’s no way I can hope to discuss this with you in terms of particle physics. Perhaps I can muddle through this discussion in terms of pattern.

    Let A = The Universal Father-First Source and Center.

    Let B = The Eternal Son-Second Source and Center.

    Let C = The Infinite Spirit-Third Source and Center.

    The associative property describes their relationship. A, (A+B), B, (B+C), C, (A+C), (A+B+C). Seven components total in this group. We’ve been informed this pattern is the basis of reality.  [On Truthbook you did apply this pattern to the periodic table. thank you for that btw. I struggled to perceive that pattern in college but couldn’t.]

    Regarding your “region of interest” and how super-fluid spin rates coupled with the ulitmaton’s proclivity to huddle and the tentative pattern you use to denote the arrangement of 100 ultimatons within the electron. In my opinion, you somehow must apply the paradise pattern to the region of interest and the pattern within the electron.  It may not be possible to do this from The Third Floor. Having ascended to The Fourth Floor (i.e. become a Citizen of Jerusem) I speculate star students are given experiments to do as a class project in an effort to begin an understanding of this relationship. Let’s call these students “under-grads.” Whereas, I speculate, those who have ascended all the way to The Seventh Floor (i.e. Uversa Physicists) have obtained their Ph.D.

    As I make this post early in 2025, we Urantians have become more technologically advanced than we were in 1934. Most of that comes from a greater ability to manipulate, modulate and control electrons and photons. I speculate that beings from higher realms (The Fourth through Seventh Floors) are able to (in varying degrees) manipulate, modulate, and control the mature ultimaton. They use technology so advanced by comparison that ours are but children’s toys. It is through this greater understanding of the ultimaton that Uversa Physicists are able to detect and understand what is happening in hyper-space. Whereas our advancing technology is allowing us to understand what is happening in sub-space.

    Again for the purpose of comparison, an amoeba is an example of life in a lower realm (i.e. The Second Floor). In my opinion, it has no personality or free-will dignity but it is reasonably aware of its surroundings. Being observed by a being in a higher realm (i.e. the researcher looking through a microscope which uses electrons and photons) I seriously doubt that amoeba is aware of such scrutiny. ;<)

    In the same way, we are barely aware of higher realms unless we begin to open our spiritual eyes through faith. Perhaps, Nigel, if you pray & meditate with a pure heart, seeking only to serve the common good doing the Father’s Will, you might possibly be given an answer to your truth-seeking questions while still in the likeness of mortal flesh.

    Best Wishes,

    Randy

    Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.

  6. Nigel,

    As I continue to study your PDF files, a few questions come to mind.

    1) Could harmonic resonance operating at planck scale be a reason ultimatons have a proclivity to huddle?

    2) Could tidal forces operating at planetary scale (i.e. the earth & moon, Jupiter & Io, the Sun and Mercury) be examples of tensor torsion?

    3) Could tidal forces (tensor torsion) operating at inter-galactic scale be the reason the Milky Way Galaxy (Splandon) in close proximity to Uversa assumes a spiral shape with two coils on opposite sides?

    The Milky Way Galaxy

    [NASA’s annotated diagram of the Milky Way Galaxy compiled from data of the Spitzer Space Telescope.]

    4) Could tidal forces (tensor torsion) operating at inter-stellar scale be a reason our solar system (Monmatia) had such an unusual origin discussed in paper 57?

    5) Could master force organizers use either harmonic resonance or tidal forces operating at hyper-space scale to manipulate, modulate and control tensor torsion hyper-charge?

    Randy

    Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.

  7. Nigel,

    Regarding the periodic table and the repeating patterns of seven. There are currently 92 naturally occurring elements, correct? I  followed the link you provided on Truthbook which shows this pattern.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qqqDX9qIIqc_cXaa8VQ84YaQ9n9H0EDY/view?pli=1

    The Urantia Book informs us there will eventually be exactly 100 in the local universe of Nebadon. Would it be possible to arrange this pattern as though there were 100 naturally occurring elements? If so, then that same pattern might somehow apply to the 100 ultimatons contained within the electron.

    Randy

    Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.

  8. Nigel,

    In your PDF files, you used an arrangement of ((3x3x3)x4). Perhaps an arrangement of [((7×7)x2)+2] could work.

    Two groups of seven repeated seven times plus one other.

    Within the first group a, (a+b), b, (b+c), c, (a+c), (a+b+c). This pattern repeats seven times representing 49 ultimatons with left-hand spin plus one ultimaton with no spin. This represents an energy vortex with left-hand spin containing 50 ultimatons .

    Within the second group A, (A+B), B, (B+C), C, (A+C), (A+B+C). This pattern repeats seven times totaling 49 ultimatons with right-hand spin and one ultimaton with no spin. Representing an energy vortex with right-hand spin containing 50 ultimatons.

    Both of these groups are contained within an electron. In terms of pattern, I think it could work. But in terms of particle physics, I don’t have a clue. What do you think, Nigel?

    Randy

     

    Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.

  9. Nigel,

    As I recall from college, native physicists were working very hard to establish something called “The Grand Unification Theory.” Integral to GUT was something called “The Electro-Gravidic Force.” As a particle physicist, I’m sure your understanding of such things greatly exceeds my own. However, I suspect the electro-gravidic force may be the answer to all the questions I have asked on this thread and the grand unification theory might explain why sub-space isn’t really separate from hyper-space after all.

    Randy

    Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.

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