Occidental dogmas and doctrines

11 posts · 6 participants · started Jun 6, 2018, 3:47 PM

1. M

   MaraParticipant
   Jun 6, 2018, 3:47 PM

   An interesting question came up in study group last night.  We were reading the account of the Melchizedek teachings in the Orient and came across the reference to the later Occidentalized dogmas and doctrines of the original Jesusonian gospel “… which have tended to make Michael’s life bestowal a white man’s religion.”

   94:4.10   Today, in India, the great need is for the portrayal of the Jesusonian gospel — the Fatherhood of God and the sonship and consequent brotherhood of all men, which is personally realized in loving ministry and social service. In India the philosophical framework is existent, the cult structure is present; all that is needed is the vitalizing spark of the dynamic love portrayed in the original gospel of the Son of Man, divested of the Occidental dogmas and doctrines which have tended to make Michael’s life bestowal a white man’s religion.

   What are those dogmas and doctrines?  And what is it about those dogmas and doctrines that would cause people to think the religion is only for white people?  Why white people? Why do people think Michael’s life bestowal a white man’s religion?
2. NN

   Nigel NunnParticipant
   Jun 6, 2018, 6:13 PM

   Hi Mara – as that Melchizedek wrote (1032.2, 94:4.10):

   “In India the philosophical framework is existent, the cult structure is present; all that is needed is the vitalizing spark of the dynamic love portrayed in the original gospel of the Son of Man, … “

   Thinking about the way various flavors of “Christianity” arrived in India, to the best of the Hindu philosophers, on the surface, Christianity  must have seemed truly peculiar — a set of weird and inconsistent beliefs, most often propagated by European soldiers, traders and missionaries.  To those sophisticated Indian locals, such an alien and dogmatic set of doctrines would have had little intellectual appeal.

   Thus those sincere but misguided followers of Jesus, in their attempts to spread a revelation, were effectively hiding the simple beauty of the religious life of Jesus behind veils of confusion and mystery (dogmas and doctrines).

   Nigel

3. M

   MaraParticipant
   Jun 6, 2018, 7:07 PM

   Nigel Nunn wrote:

   . . . most often propagated by European soldiers, traders and missionaries.

   I appreciate your reminder that soldiers, traders and missionaries brought their beliefs with them as they traveled to those lands.  Thanks. . .

4. A

   AndréParticipant
   Sep 11, 2018, 2:48 AM

   Hi Mara, everyone,

   Faith based on race is a logic misguided from an primitive, evolutary course.

   I just dig out some potentials fautly reasonings.

   The tradition that developed around the ‘Curse of Ham’ was a tool to rationalize that – even though they were created in the image of God as were white people – blacks were ‘cursed’ and intended to live as a subservient race.”
   The Curse of Ham refers to the curse upon Canaan, Ham’s son, that was imposed by the biblical patriarch Noah.

   ________________________________________

   At the memorial service for the

   Challenger astronauts, Reagan again quoted Lincoln on America as “the last, best hope of man on Earth“.

   The relationship between the presidency and civil religion is an important one, where the elected official becomes the vehicle for articulating and preserving America’s particular mythic understanding of itself. Reagan’s presidential discourse was filled with examples of civil religion, such as discussion of sacred origins and sacred destinies for America, his recounting the deeds of heroic figures, and his definition of democracy.

   AUTHOR Fulmer, Hal W.

   TITLE Ronald Reagan’s Civil Religion.

   https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED315796.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiEr7O48bHdAhUIy1kKHc_YCqMQFjAAegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw0_4aA5Avs8D3khPCAovqgJ

   … Mara is my search encounter the subject you brought?

   André

5. B

   BradlyParticipant
   Sep 11, 2018, 4:42 PM

   Mara asks above: “What are those dogmas and doctrines? And what is it about those dogmas and doctrines that would cause people to think the religion is only for white people? Why white people? Why do people think Michael’s life bestowal a white man’s religion?”

    

   I think Paper 98 does a good job of explaining this phenomenon.  Evidently the West did not enjoy the 6th Century B.C. spiritual and religious resurgence.  And the anti-priest, anti-congregation directives for Mac’s Missionaries resulted in some unfortunate consequences in the West where philosophy and politics took precedence over religion.

   I think the “dogmas and doctrines” issues resulting in the “white people” think is that monotheism arose among a very nationalistic population – the Israelites – whose god was originally only for them.  This self isolation and religious prejudice and self adoration would naturally lead to the rejection of its teachings and beliefs by those who were not Judaic.  Christianity arose from Judaism too.  Jesus was a Jew after all and the first churches and Christians were, in large measure, Jews as well.

   Like the god of the Jews, Jesus became the god of the Christians….and spent several centuries “converting” others at the point and edge of the sword.  Such domination was most successful the earliest in Europe.  The Jews also became very “white” (European) over the centuries.  While there are exceptions, one who studies history would have to conclude that Judaism and Christianity indeed became “white” religions.

   Remember that Christianity is not the gospel of Jesus….it is the gospel about Jesus.  Those who reject this new and false gospel about Jesus are condemned to eternal suffering and damnation.  Not a very friendly or endearing or inclusive or tolerant or kind message in its dogmas and doctrines….if unfortunately enduring.

   The doctrines that God only loves the Jews and the rapture will only save the Christians is self serving….and self defeating at the same time….and very, very “white”.  Although conversion is open to all today…still is the sword at play and the resentments too.

   "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

6. M

   MaraParticipant
   Sep 12, 2018, 12:26 AM

   Bradly wrote:

   I think Paper 98 does a good job of explaining this phenomenon.  Evidently the West did not enjoy the 6th Century B.C. spiritual and religious resurgence.  And the anti-priest, anti-congregation directives for Mac’s Missionaries resulted in some unfortunate consequences in the West where philosophy and politics took precedence over religion. I think the “dogmas and doctrines” issues resulting in the “white people” think is that monotheism arose among a very nationalistic population – the Israelites – whose god was originally only for them.  This self isolation and religious prejudice and self adoration would naturally lead to the rejection of its teachings and beliefs by those who were not Judaic.  Christianity arose from Judaism too.  Jesus was a Jew after all and the first churches and Christians were, in large measure, Jews as well. Like the god of the Jews, Jesus became the god of the Christians….and spent several centuries “converting” others at the point and edge of the sword.  Such domination was most successful the earliest in Europe.  The Jews also became very “white” (European) over the centuries.  While there are exceptions, one who studies history would have to conclude that Judaism and Christianity indeed became “white” religions. Remember that Christianity is not the gospel of Jesus….it is the gospel about Jesus.  Those who reject this new and false gospel about Jesus are condemned to eternal suffering and damnation.  Not a very friendly or endearing or inclusive or tolerant or kind message in its dogmas and doctrines….if unfortunately enduring. The doctrines that God only loves the Jews and the rapture will only save the Christians is self serving….and self defeating at the same time….and very, very “white”.  Although conversion is open to all today…still is the sword at play and the resentments too.

   Thanks Bradly

7. G

   GeneParticipant
   Sep 12, 2018, 3:54 AM

   I’d keep in mind that the so called white religion of the West brought into being a government that features the separation of powers of the three main branches. I believe this was truly inspired by our celestial friends and is one of a kind on our planet and draws the interest of people from all over the world.

   dr Sadler and the original forumites were white religionists, carefully chosen by our celestial friends to help bring the Urantia book into being.

   all colors of Christianity as well as all other evolutionary religions are absolutely necessary no matter how far off track people may have taken them over time.

   The Urantia book draws heavily on white Christianity in many parts of the text and brings out the truth of it all for us.

8. M

   Mark606Participant
   Sep 12, 2018, 5:52 PM

   And let’s not forget the doctrines and dogmas of the Greeks, Romans, and Persians. Western Christianity was very much influenced by the thinking of the Greeks and Persians in particular. Much of this ideology was completely foreign to Africans and Asians.

9. M

   MaraParticipant
   Sep 12, 2018, 9:35 PM

   Mark606 wrote:

   And let’s not forget the doctrines and dogmas of the Greeks, Romans, and Persians. Western Christianity was very much influenced by the thinking of the Greeks and Persians in particular. Much of this ideology was completely foreign to Africans and Asians.

   . . . and yet Ganid with the help of Jesus wrote his opus magum on the world’s religions, prior to Jesus’ public work.

   Paper 131   DURING the Alexandrian sojourn of Jesus, Gonod, and Ganid, the young man spent much of his time and no small sum of his father’s money making a collection of the teachings of the world’s religions about God and his relations with mortal man. Ganid employed more than threescore learned translators in the making of this abstract of the religious doctrines of the world concerning the Deities. And it should be made plain in this record that all these teachings portraying monotheism were largely derived, directly or indirectly, from the preachments of the missionaries of Machiventa Melchizedek, who went forth from their Salem headquarters to spread the doctrine of one God — the Most High — to the ends of the earth.

   Ganid selected the best info for his abstract of religious doctrines, and the information he gathered shows the success of the Melchizedek missionaries who some two thousand years earlier spread the doctrine of one God “to the ends of the earth”.

   Paper 98   As the original teachings of Jesus penetrated the Occident, they became Occidentalized, and as they became Occidentalized, they began to lose their potentially universal appeal to all races and kinds of men. Christianity, today, has become a religion well adapted to the social, economic, and political mores of the white races. It has long since ceased to be the religion of Jesus, although it still valiantly portrays a beautiful religion about Jesus to such individuals as sincerely seek to follow in the way of its teaching. It has glorified Jesus as the Christ, the Messianic anointed one from God, but has largely forgotten the Master’s personal gospel: the Fatherhood of God and the universal brotherhood of all men.

   Blame it on occidentalization.  But monotheism is alive and well.  Religion has become more of a personal experience in these times it seems to me.  What do you think?

10. G

    GeneParticipant
    Sep 12, 2018, 10:36 PM

    Mara wrote:

    Mark606 wrote:

    And let’s not forget the doctrines and dogmas of the Greeks, Romans, and Persians. Western Christianity was very much influenced by the thinking of the Greeks and Persians in particular. Much of this ideology was completely foreign to Africans and Asians.

    . . . and yet Ganid with the help of Jesus wrote his opus magum on the world’s religions, prior to Jesus’ public work.

    Paper 131 DURING the Alexandrian sojourn of Jesus, Gonod, and Ganid, the young man spent much of his time and no small sum of his father’s money making a collection of the teachings of the world’s religions about God and his relations with mortal man. Ganid employed more than threescore learned translators in the making of this abstract of the religious doctrines of the world concerning the Deities. And it should be made plain in this record that all these teachings portraying monotheism were largely derived, directly or indirectly, from the preachments of the missionaries of Machiventa Melchizedek, who went forth from their Salem headquarters to spread the doctrine of one God — the Most High — to the ends of the earth.

    Ganid selected the best info for his abstract of religious doctrines, and the information he gathered shows the success of the Melchizedek missionaries who some two thousand years earlier spread the doctrine of one God “to the ends of the earth”.

    Paper 98 As the original teachings of Jesus penetrated the Occident, they became Occidentalized, and as they became Occidentalized, they began to lose their potentially universal appeal to all races and kinds of men. Christianity, today, has become a religion well adapted to the social, economic, and political mores of the white races. It has long since ceased to be the religion of Jesus, although it still valiantly portrays a beautiful religion about Jesus to such individuals as sincerely seek to follow in the way of its teaching. It has glorified Jesus as the Christ, the Messianic anointed one from God, but has largely forgotten the Master’s personal gospel: the Fatherhood of God and the universal brotherhood of all men.

    Blame it on occidentalization. But monotheism is alive and well. Religion has become more of a personal experience in these times it seems to me. What do you think?

    i think that every serious religionists should study the worlds religions, not to discover their differences but to experience their similarities, as Ganid and Jesus did.

    Then study the Urantia book.

11. M

    MaraParticipant
    Sep 12, 2018, 11:11 PM

    Gene wrote:

    i think that every serious religionists should study the worlds religions, not to discover their differences but to experience their similarities, as Ganid and Jesus did.

    You make a potent point to say, “. . . not to discover their differences but to experience their similarities. . . .” I’m with you!

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