32 posts · 6 participants · started Dec 8, 2016, 3:16 PM
Gene wrote: What existing style of music (leave out words for now) do you suppose could be used to express worship?Doesn’t it depend on how you define worship? Is music necessary for worship?
interesting question:
here is one thought: if we respond fovourably to the worship adjutant, are we not at least on the path to symmetry? Symmetry can be viewed as being in HARMONY with the cosmos? Perhaps a harmony that can be interpreted musically by someone with some artistic skill?
Gene wrote: . . . here is one thought: if we respond fovourably to the worship adjutant, are we not at least on the path to symmetry? Symmetry can be viewed as being in HARMONY with the cosmos? Perhaps a harmony that can be interpreted musically by someone with some artistic skill?
Interesting question yourself, Gene. Are you defining worship as a feeling of being in harmony with the cosmos? And, are you also saying that the interpretation into music of that feeling of harmony could become an inspiration for worship in others? If so, are you implying that worship (harmony with the cosmos) creates, or is capable of creating, the same feeling in everyone?
I have always felt that worship is between me and the Father, not the me and the universe. I am of the understanding that worship belongs to the Father alone and it is a personality-to-personality thing. True worship involves the Father’s personality circuit, right? Not the cosmic mind . . . as I understand it . . . not to undermine the fact that if we are lucky enough to become conscious of it, it would be because of the ministry of mind. But we rarely experience full consciousness of true worship because it happens on four different levels, two of which we are not fully conscious of . . . at least that’s how I read it.
5:3.1 In the highest sense, we worship the Universal Father and him only. True, we can and do worship the Father as he is manifested in his Creator Sons, but it is the Father, directly or indirectly, who is worshiped and adored.
5:3.2 But worship is undoubtedly encircuited and dispatched to the person of the Creator by the function of the Father’s personality circuit.
5:3.7 The mind of material limitations can never become highly conscious of the real significance of true worship. Man’s realization of the reality of the worship experience is chiefly determined by the developmental status of his evolving immortal soul.
5:3.8 True worship, in the last analysis, becomes an experience realized on four cosmic levels: the intellectual, the morontial, the spiritual, and the personal – the consciousness of mind, soul, and spirit, and their unification in personality.
Now I need to focus my thoughts thank you very much.
I think I am approaching this from the cosmic mind perspective. But there may be a distinction there because responding to the Adjutants is a bit different than worshiping the father person to person? Given that personality must be there for the Adjutants to function i suppose I’m thinking more on the level of personal growth that results in helping to realize the Supreme. Being in harmony with the cosmic mind involves incircuitment in the Holy Spirit? the spirit of truth? The psychic circles? The cosmic intuitions? Our Adjuster? Becoming more real as persons? Doing fathers will? All seems symmetrical/harmonious to me. And close enough to us to maybe make music of it? A side thought is about growth, we don’t cause it we create fovourable conditions for it and it is all of those spiritual influences I mentioned that will grow us if we allow it. Music can help-like a unifier maybe? Don’t know how else to express my thoughts about this.
actually, the function and interactions of all these spiritual influences is subject of a topic I have been wanting to start but could never figure quite how to approach putting it into words.
worshiping the father is too personal and likely would not have much value for anyone but me and father.
I think I understand what you’re saying Gene. I do think music can be a kind of unifier if it touches the soul and the spirit within it. We all have the same Spirit within even if the expression of that Spirit presence takes on a unique character for each individual person. I’m not sure that music has to be cosmic in nature to resonate within the soul. I find I’m most moved by music that strikes a deep chord in my soul, something that becomes acutely personal and very intimate, often tied to a personal spiritual experience. I’ve seen the same music not stir any of the souls around me, while at the same time being powerful enough to rock my inner world to its core. I think worship (with or without music) is an extremely individualized and personal experience. I do think music can inspire worship, but I don’t think there is any music that is inspiring to everyone. If that should happen, then it would be something fantastic to witness. It could happen, I suppose.
As for your other topic, I think you should start it. It’s one of my favorite topics. First thing to address is this statement of yours: “Given that personality must be there for the Adjutants to function . . .” I’m not sure if you really meant that. The adjutants also function in the animal kingdom where there is no personality. Perhaps you meant for the adjutants of worship and wisdom to function? The functioning of the spirit of worship is the first adjutant to separate the animal mind from the human mind.
36:5.11 6. The spirit of worship – the religious impulse, the first differential urge separating mind creatures into the two basic classes of mortal existence. The spirit of worship forever distinguishes the animal of its association from the soulless creatures of mind endowment. Worship is the badge of spiritual-ascension candidacy.
You are correct, I did not get specific about personality and the worship, wisdom Adjutants.
well it appears that for putting together a hymn as Mark suggested the words are the easy part, the book is loaded with them. Music is another story eh?
i will work on the new topic.
The music can also be the easy part, so long that you become the instrument and give it to God to play.
“I am the string, and the Supreme is the musician.”
– Carlos Santana 1974
That sounds real nice Van, but in reality it doesn’t work that way. God doesn’t do things for us, we have to do them ourselves. We have to play our instrument ourselves and do so in such a way that allows God’s spirit to come through. We are not passive instruments, we are meant to be active musicians with God (Thought Adjuster) as our Maestro. It’s the same as the quote that tells us we are the captains and the Thought Adjuster is our pilot. If we are simply the instruments that God plays, then he is not respecting our free will, so that can’t be true. We must do it ourselves and find a way to follow God’s lead. The goal is to allow him to help us interpret the music and make it true, beautiful and good, but we actually have to do the work of playing the instrument ourselves. And that’s what makes real music that comes from the soul such a treasure, a work of art. In my opinion.
111:1.9 Mind is your ship, the Adjuster is your pilot, the human will is captain. The master of the mortal vessel should have the wisdom to trust the divine pilot to guide the ascending soul into the morontia harbors of eternal survival.
The following is a long quote but worth reading. It explains how the process works, how the divine urge from within the soul is best expressed. Meaningful music, music with power, must come from one’s own life experience. It must be part of the struggle to know God and be like him. There’s no passivity there. The beauty is in the soul’s yearning, the striving and the struggling against all the odds against it. That’s the kind of music that stirs my heart, the recognition of that deep desire of the creature to connect with the Creator on many different levels, but especially on the human level where our lives happen.
44:7.2-4 Beauty, rhythm, and harmony are intellectually associated and spiritually akin. Truth, fact, and relationship are intellectually inseparable and associated with the philosophic concepts of beauty. Goodness, righteousness, and justice are philosophically interrelated and spiritually bound up together with living truth and divine beauty.
Cosmic concepts of true philosophy, the portrayal of celestial artistry, or the mortal attempt to depict the human recognition of divine beauty can never be truly satisfying if such attempted creature progression is ununified. These expressions of the divine urge within the evolving creature may be intellectually true, emotionally beautiful, and spiritually good; but the real soul of expression is absent unless these realities of truth, meanings of beauty, and values of goodness are unified in the life experience of the artisan, the scientist, or the philosopher.
These divine qualities are perfectly and absolutely unified in God. And every God-knowing man or angel possesses the potential of unlimited self-expression on ever-progressive levels of unified self-realization by the technique of the never-ending achievement of Godlikeness – the experiential blending in the evolutionary experience of eternal truth, universal beauty, and divine goodness.
(44:1.9) The music of space—by proper attunement the melodies of other spheres can be picked up on the universe broadcast circuits.
Anybody ever wonder why harmonic overtones progress the way they do regardless of the source?
octave, fifth, double octave, double octave third etc. the exceptions being simply a missing harmonic, not a deviation to the series.
and the artists that use these to make music as opposed to noise. Most of us can agree on what noise is.
Anybody ever wonder why harmonic overtones progress the way they do regardless of the source?
octave, fifth, double octave, double octave third etc. the exceptions being simply a missing harmonic, not a deviation to the series.
It seem a coincidence that you should present this post today, because I still get Emails from various study organizations, which present regular Journals, where this most resent Journal contained an article entitled “The Perfect Fifth : The Science and Alchemy of Sound“, by “John Beaulieu, N.D., Ph.D.” – I have linked the article to the online PDF file presentation, which I hope will work for all but, depending on systems used, I don’t know if it will work for all who might be interested?
You may be interested in this presentation because it goes back many years and presents several example from history.
Thx
i am familiar with the pathagorian comma. Actually the 5th is a 3/2 ratio, not 2/3 meaning the third harmonic of the lower note is the same friquency as the second harmonic of the upper note of the interval being played but that is not so important.
the pure fifth don’t exist on pianos – I tune them regular. If you picture the sine wave like in the article the line drawn depicts the dilemma. It is an imaginary line. In the real world on monochords, harpsichords, violins or pianos the line becomes a string or a wire and has physical properties like diameter, stiffness and length. This forces the harmonics sharp of the theoretical frequency. so in the world of tuning the theoretical harmonics become partials which is more descriptive of what’s happening. That means that all intervals must be tempered and the perfect fifth don’t really exist – even on tuning forks.
On another note I know that science has gone to great length to try to generate a pure tone with zero harmonics or partials. Don’t know if they had success or not.
in regard to healing power all I can say is the fifth is probably the second most pleasing almost pure interval to listen to next to an octave but if you get beyond the mid range or the normal melody frequencies everything changes. Harmonics or partials can range beyond our normal hearing range in friquency and the interesting thing is – in tuning anyway – our brain can fill in where our ears leave off.
Very interesting stuff.
One more thought and this gets into perception: had a chance to work for Urlich Sauter the Sauter piano maker from Germany. He makes a very unique piano for special order, maybe only a few like it in the world- he calls it a Microtonal Piano.
Its unique because it is a full keyboard like the Bosendorfer Imperial with 97 rather than the traditional 88 notes but it’s true uniqueness is that those 97 notes spans only one octave, from A-3 to A-4
talk about a chromatic scale.
it takes two hands to play a perfect fifth. Even a third.
what is also unique is that someone can play it.
and what it s also unique is that someone actually writes music for it.
to me, no matter what the artist was doing it made no musical sense but it certainly did to the composer and the artist who interpreted it.
Go figure
