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Mystery, mark and image…

39 posts · 6 participants · started Jul 3, 2017, 1:55 PM

  1. I find it fascinating that the revelators use terms mentioned in the Book of Revelation specifically to describe the unholy trinity.  Those terms are mystery, mark, and image:

    Did the revelators want to draw parallels between the two revelations?

    Hi BB,

    I send you greetings of friendship!

    These three terms….mystery, mark, and image…..are also mentioned in other parts of the Bible. If indeed the revelators were trying to draw some parallels, why just focus on the Book of Revelation?

    For example, the Bible mentions numerous times the phrase “image of God”. In addition the term “mystery” is used in these contexts: “the mystery of a tiny baby growing in its mother’s womb….” (Eccles 11.5), “the mystery of God” (1Cor 2.7, “the mystery of the faith now revealed…” (1Tim 3.9), “….I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” (Rom 11.25), “Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.” (1Cor 15.51). See also the mystery of God’s will (Eph 1.9) and the mystery of Christ (Eph 3.4).

    Finally, the term “mark” is used in many Biblical contexts: in reference to the Passover ceremony “This annual festival will be a visible sign to you, like a mark branded on your hand or your forehead.” (Exod 13.9), “Walk through the streets of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of all who weep and sigh because of the detestable sins being committed in their city.” (Ezek 9.4), “And I heard how many were marked with the seal of God – 144,000….” (Rev 7.4)

    I don’t think there is any parallel or significance in the use of these terms in the UB and their use in the Book of Revelation. With respect, I think you are drawing a long bow!   :-(

  2. those are good examples as well. But I think the revelators want to draw attention to the duality nature in creation, ie., the holy and unholy.

    I find it fascinating that the revelators use terms mentioned in the Book of Revelation specifically to describe the unholy trinity. Those terms are mystery, mark, and image:

    Did the revelators want to draw parallels between the two revelations?

    Hi BB,

    I send you greetings of friendship!

    These three terms….mystery, mark, and image…..are also mentioned in other parts of the Bible. If indeed the revelators were trying to draw some parallels, why just focus on the Book of Revelation?

    For example, the Bible mentions numerous times the phrase “image of God”. In addition the term “mystery” is used in these contexts: “the mystery of a tiny baby growing in its mother’s womb….” (Eccles 11.5), “the mystery of God” (1Cor 2.7, “the mystery of the faith now revealed…” (1Tim 3.9), “….I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” (Rom 11.25), “Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.” (1Cor 15.51). See also the mystery of God’s will (Eph 1.9) and the mystery of Christ (Eph 3.4).

    Finally, the term “mark” is used in many Biblical contexts: in reference to the Passover ceremony “This annual festival will be a visible sign to you, like a mark branded on your hand or your forehead.” (Exod 13.9), “Walk through the streets of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of all who weep and sigh because of the detestable sins being committed in their city.” (Ezek 9.4), “And I heard how many were marked with the seal of God – 144,000….” (Rev 7.4)

    I don’t think there is any parallel or significance in the use of these terms in the UB and their use in the Book of Revelation. With respect, I think you are drawing a long bow! :-(

    BB

  3. The duality doctrine was dreamed up by the ancient Persians, but there is really no such thing.  It’s a primitive way to solve the philosophical dilemma of the presence of evil in the world.  TUB has revealed a new way of solving this dilemma by first redefining evil.  Revelation is meant to give new meanings to old ideas.  Evil now means impartial, incomplete, imperfect, erroneous, misadaptation, and maladjustment, among others.  These evils are the consequences of evolution. On Paradise evolution does not exist, so the potential for evil does not exist either.  But out here in the universes of time and space, the potential is there.  And not until all the potentials in the universe are actualized will it disappear in this current age.

    105:6.4 3. The creature repercussion to finite-reality promulgation resulted in the appearance of perfect beings on the order of the eternal inhabitants of Havona and of perfected evolutionary ascenders from the seven superuniverses. But to attain perfection as an evolutionary (time-creative) experience implies something other-than-perfection as a point of departure. Thus arises imperfection in the evolutionary creations. And this is the origin of potential evil. Misadaptation, disharmony, and conflict, all these things are inherent in evolutionary growth, from physical universes to personal creatures.

    117:7.13 The present goal of the superuniverses is to become, as they are and within their potentials, perfect, even as is Havona. This perfection pertains to physical and spiritual attainment, even to administrative, governmental, and fraternal development. It is believed that, in the ages to come, the possibilities for disharmony, maladjustment, and misadaptation will be eventually exhausted in the superuniverses. The energy circuits will be in perfect balance and in complete subjugation to mind, while spirit, in the presence of personality, will have achieved the dominance of mind.

     

  4. We are not born as completely neutral beings into a world of duality.  Nor are we born as completely evil or completely good beings.  We are born imperfect and our imperfection lends itself to the potential for both evil and good.  Neither actually exists until we make a moral choice. The moment we make a true moral choice, we are recruited by reality to increasingly become part of it.  REALITY ITSELF IS NOT EVIL.

    130:1.5 God is so positively good that there is absolutely no place in him for negative evil. Evil is the immature choosing and the unthinking misstep of those who are resistant to goodness, rejectful of beauty, and disloyal to truth. Evil is only the misadaptation of immaturity or the disruptive and distorting influence of ignorance. Evil is the inevitable darkness which follows upon the heels of the unwise rejection of light. Evil is that which is dark and untrue, and which, when consciously embraced and willfully endorsed, becomes sin.

     

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  5. The human paradox of good and evil exists in the mind and that is because the mind can perceive potentials.  Humans have dual natures because they have been gifted by more than one level of mind ministry. But reality itself is not a duality.

    111:6.1 Many of the temporal troubles of mortal man grow out of his twofold relation to the cosmos. Man is a part of nature – he exists in nature – and yet he is able to transcend nature. Man is finite, but he is indwelt by a spark of infinity. Such a dual situation not only provides the potential for evil but also engenders many social and moral situations fraught with much uncertainty and not a little anxiety.

     

  6. In fact, reality is actually a triunity, and mind is at the center of it.  Mind is the third level of reality and its ministry establishes communication between the other two: material and spiritual.  Mind is what enables us to comprehend and coordinate both.  To visualize reality as a duality is to leave out mind as a reality.

    56:2.2 Mind is the functional endowment of the Infinite Spirit, therefore infinite in potential and universal in bestowal. The primal thought of the Universal Father eternalizes in dual expression: the Isle of Paradise and his Deity equal, the spiritual and Eternal Son. Such duality of eternal reality renders the mind God, the Infinite Spirit, inevitable. Mind is the indispensable channel of communication between spiritual and material realities. The material evolutionary creature can conceive and comprehend the indwelling spirit only by the ministry of mind.

     

  7. We are also told that the potentials for good and evil can be mixed together by choice, resulting in partiality which is  actual evil, also known as error, misadaptation and maladjustment. The fact that it’s not always an either/or choice certainly destroys the duality myth. There’s a third option.  Eve was guilty of committing this third option, the practice of commingling good and evil.

    75:4.3 Eve had consented to participate in the practice of good and evil. Good is the carrying out of the divine plans; sin is a deliberate transgression of the divine will; evil is the misadaptation of plans and the maladjustment of techniques resulting in universe disharmony and planetary confusion.

    75:4.4 Every time the Garden pair had partaken of the fruit of the tree of life, they had been warned by the archangel custodian to refrain from yielding to the suggestions of Caligastia to combine good and evil. They had been thus admonished: “In the day that you commingle good and evil, you shall surely become as the mortals of the realm; you shall surely die.”

     

     

  8. The duality doctrine, or dualism, grew out of the ghost cult.  Primitive man believed in good ghosts and bad ghosts and at the time, dualism was actually considered an advancement because it provided an element of order, or organization, in man’s religious thinking. In fact, we’re told that it was one of the most momentous discoveries of truth ever!

    87:4.5 When the doctrine of good and bad spirits finally matured, it became the most widespread and persistent of all religious beliefs. This dualism represented a great religio-philosophic advance because it enabled man to account for both good luck and bad luck while at the same time believing in supermortal beings who were to some extent consistent in their behavior. The spirits could be counted on to be either good or bad; they were not thought of as being completely temperamental as the early ghosts of the monospiritism of most primitive religions had been conceived to be. Man was at last able to conceive of supermortal forces that were consistent in behavior, and this was one of the most momentous discoveries of truth in the entire history of the evolution of religion and in the expansion of human philosophy.

     

     

  9. However, this great advancement had its down side too.  It provided only two options, and this error of thinking actually sets the stage for conflict (which is also evil) . . . that proverbial war between good and evil.  In reality, you actually need at least three options.

    87:4.6 Evolutionary religion has, however, paid a terrible price for the concept of dual spiritism. Man’s early philosophy was able to reconcile spirit constancy with the vicissitudes of temporal fortune only by postulating two kinds of spirits, one good and the other bad. And while this belief did enable man to reconcile the variables of chance with a concept of unchanging supermortal forces, this doctrine has ever since made it difficult for religionists to conceive of cosmic unity. The gods of evolutionary religion have generally been opposed by the forces of darkness.

  10. The real tragedy is that this belief in dualism has had such a strong grip on the human mind, it won’t let go. It’s alive and kicking in most of the world’s religions even though it arose back in the days of the ghost cults.  Perhaps it is time to move on?  Maybe this is one of the reasons for the Revelation?  To urge us away from such backward and primitive ideas?

    87:4.7 The tragedy of all this lies in the fact that, when these ideas were taking root in the primitive mind of man, there really were no bad or disharmonious spirits in all the world. Such an unfortunate situation did not develop until after the Caligastic rebellion and only persisted until Pentecost. The concept of good and evil as cosmic co-ordinates is, even in the twentieth century, very much alive in human philosophy; most of the world’s religions still carry this cultural birthmark of the long-gone days of the emerging ghost cults.

     

     

  11. 6:4.4 The Father must be spiritually omnipresent, but such omnipresence appears to be
    inseparable from the everywhere spirit activities of the Eternal Son. We do, however,
    believe that in all situations of Father-Son presence of a dual spiritual nature the spirit of
    the Son is co-ordinate with the spirit of the Father.

     

    ;-)

    BB

  12. Mark of the Beast = Mark of Divinity

    Mystery, Babylon the Great = Mystery Monitors

    Image of the Beast = Image of God.

    Did the revelators want to draw parallels between the two revelations?

    So, your use of the equal mark is not meant to show equality but something else?  Did you mean that these things are opposites?  Black and white?  Evil and good  Unholy and holy?

    If the mark of divinity and the image of God are synonyms for the Mystery Monitor, are their opposites also synonyms for Babylon the Great, the Mother of the Whores, and the Abominations of the earth?  Is she also the image of the beast and the mark of the beast? If I read Revelations 17 correctly, the Whore and the Beast are two different things.  It’s my belief that this portion of the Book of Revelations has its origins in gnosticism relying heavily on the bastardized version of Zoroastrianism which includes dualism and a judgment day. I seriously doubt John wrote any of this.  He was more enlightened than that.

    The Fifth Epochal Revelation drawing parallels to the Book of Revelation, which is not a revelation, is like Jesus drawing parallels between his gospel and the Lucifer Manifesto.  Parallels don’t intersect right?  In fact, I think the purpose of true Revelation is to add new meaning which would alter the trajectory on a greater angle away from the old line of thinking, making them no longer parallel.  It’s a whole new direction!  A whole new way of thinking about things.  We’re not supposed to put fresh new wine into old wine skins.  If we do, the old skins will burst!  What a mess that makes . . . chaos.  ERROR.

  13. Creator Sons are of dual origin.  Their parents are two members of the Trinity, the Father and the Eternal Son.  The Spirit of the Creator Son, which we know as the Spirit of Truth, is the Spirit of the Father and the Son.  But the dual NATURE of our Creator Son does not mean that his creations are of the same dual NATURE.  Don’t forget about the Creative Spirit.  The Creative spirit is a single origin Deity, from the other member of the Trinity.  When both the Creator Son and the Creative Spirit create, they create with THREE natures.

     

  14. I find it fascinating that the revelators use terms mentioned in the Book of Revelation specifically to describe the unholy trinity. Those terms are mystery, mark, and image: [. . .]

    Did the revelators want to draw parallels between the two revelations?

    It would appear that the general implication here is that TUB, being associated as a “revelation” and that “Book of Revelation” may have parallels, which may require a stretch in supposition in order to make this argument, if it even can be argued or debated?

    In the explanation presented in TUB, regarding the “Book of Revelation” it has presented the author of this work as being John Zebedee, or at least as I read it, even though I thought otherwise in my studies of the “Book of Revelation” in my youth.  It also presents information as to its current status regarding validity as it has been presented in text today.

    (1555.6) 139:4.13 John was in prison several times and was banished to the Isle of Patmos for a period of four years until another emperor came to power in Rome. Had not John been tactful and sagacious, he would undoubtedly have been killed as was his more outspoken brother James. As the years passed, John, together with James the Lord’s brother, learned to practice wise conciliation when they appeared before the civil magistrates. They found that a “soft answer turns away wrath.” They also learned to represent the church as a “spiritual brotherhood devoted to the social service of mankind” rather than as “the kingdom of heaven.” They taught loving service rather than ruling power — kingdom and king.

    (1555.7) 139:4.14 When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John’s writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form.

    (1555.8) 139:4.15 John traveled much, labored incessantly, and after becoming bishop of the Asia churches, settled down at Ephesus. He directed his associate, Nathan, in the writing of the so-called “Gospel according to John,” at Ephesus, when he was ninety-nine years old. Of all the twelve apostles, John Zebedee eventually became the outstanding theologian. He died a natural death at Ephesus in A.D. 103 when he was one hundred and one years of age.

    Based on the narrative above in (139:4.14) the “Book of Revelation” would seem to have been “a great revelation”, where it might be implied that that Book contained a great revelation within it from another source or that in itself was a great work of composition.  Nevertheless, based on this information one would need to take this into account, when examining its current content.  But putting aside what was “lost” or “removed” for now, and looking at what remains as having been “adulterated” or changed, possibly to make it less desirable, would also need to be taken into account in using it as a parallel, to even other narratives within the Bible or TUB.

    Upon having read the narrative presented above, a few years ago, which presented itself in a different context, I was somewhat puzzled why it would be presented in the UB, where my extensive and detailed study of the “Book of Revelation” in prior years, should have been altered in any way, so not having read it for some time, I was compelled to read it again to see what was presented in TUB could have been referring too.

    To my surprise, what I had originally studied, was truly “adulterated” as mentioned, but from my memory, could recall what was and is now, and how it changed and what was removed or lost, where what was removed is one thing but what was lost would have been the meaning behind that which was removed or changed as having possibly been lost through time.  Thereby, having acquired a better understand of temporal mechanics, even as it is presented in TUB.  The Urantia Book indicates several reasons why some persons have the ability to remember things which others do or cannot, but being able to remember has given me a different perspective on this subject.  It would be difficult to present in detail if there is any kind of parallel between what has been introduced here without having an open mind to other possibilities first.

  15. Midi, have you read the Book of Enoch? If so, what are your thoughts on it?
    The UB papers reference his writing here:
    126:3.6 In the course of this year Jesus found a passage in the so-called Book of Enoch which influenced him in the later adoption of the term “Son of Man” as a designation for his bestowal mission on Urantia. He had thoroughly considered the idea of the Jewish Messiah and was firmly convinced that he was not to be that Messiah. He longed to help his father’s people, but he never expected to lead Jewish armies in overthrowing the foreign domination of Palestine. He knew he would never sit on the throne of David at Jerusalem. Neither did he believe that his mission was that of a spiritual deliverer or moral teacher solely to the Jewish people. In no sense, therefore, could his life mission be the fulfillment of the intense longings and supposed Messianic prophecies of the Hebrew scriptures; at least, not as the Jews understood these predictions of the prophets. Likewise he was certain he was never to appear as the Son of Man depicted by the Prophet Daniel.

    I find it fascinating that the revelators use terms mentioned in the Book of Revelation specifically to describe the unholy trinity. Those terms are mystery, mark, and image: [. . .]

    Did the revelators want to draw parallels between the two revelations?

    It would appear that the general implication here is that TUB, being associated as a “revelation” and that “Book of Revelation” may have parallels, which may require a stretch in supposition in order to make this argument, if it even can be argued or debated? In the explanation presented in TUB, regarding the “Book of Revelation” it has presented the author of this work as being John Zebedee, or at least as I read it, even though I thought otherwise in my studies of the “Book of Revelation” in my youth. It also presents information as to its current status regarding validity as it has been presented in text today.

    (1555.6) 139:4.13 John was in prison several times and was banished to the Isle of Patmos for a period of four years until another emperor came to power in Rome. Had not John been tactful and sagacious, he would undoubtedly have been killed as was his more outspoken brother James. As the years passed, John, together with James the Lord’s brother, learned to practice wise conciliation when they appeared before the civil magistrates. They found that a “soft answer turns away wrath.” They also learned to represent the church as a “spiritual brotherhood devoted to the social service of mankind” rather than as “the kingdom of heaven.” They taught loving service rather than ruling power — kingdom and king. (1555.7) 139:4.14 When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John’s writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form. (1555.8) 139:4.15 John traveled much, labored incessantly, and after becoming bishop of the Asia churches, settled down at Ephesus. He directed his associate, Nathan, in the writing of the so-called “Gospel according to John,” at Ephesus, when he was ninety-nine years old. Of all the twelve apostles, John Zebedee eventually became the outstanding theologian. He died a natural death at Ephesus in A.D. 103 when he was one hundred and one years of age.

    Based on the narrative above in (139:4.14) the “Book of Revelation” would seem to have been “a great revelation”, where it might be implied that that Book contained a great revelation within it from another source or that in itself was a great work of composition. Nevertheless, based on this information one would need to take this into account, when examining its current content. But putting aside what was “lost” or “removed” for now, and looking at what remains as having been “adulterated” or changed, possibly to make it less desirable, would also need to be taken into account in using it as a parallel, to even other narratives within the Bible or TUB. Upon having read the narrative presented above, a few years ago, which presented itself in a different context, I was somewhat puzzled why it would be presented in the UB, where my extensive and detailed study of the “Book of Revelation” in prior years, should have been altered in any way, so not having read it for some time, I was compelled to read it again to see what was presented in TUB could have been referring too. To my surprise, what I had originally studied, was truly “adulterated” as mentioned, but from my memory, could recall what was and is now, and how it changed and what was removed or lost, where what was removed is one thing but what was lost would have been the meaning behind that which was removed or changed as having possibly been lost through time. Thereby, having acquired a better understand of temporal mechanics, even as it is presented in TUB. The Urantia Book indicates several reasons why some persons have the ability to remember things which others do or cannot, but being able to remember has given me a different perspective on this subject. It would be difficult to present in detail if there is any kind of parallel between what has been introduced here without having an open mind to other possibilities first.

    BB

  16. Midi, have you read the Book of Enoch? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

    Yes, there are three and one as an alternate translation, which kind of makes it four, however there is a lot of information contained in them, where it would be difficult to give an overall viewpoint of one without referencing to specific version.  It would be difficult to associate the Urantia Books reference to the Book of Enoch because Jesus, apparently read a version that may have been the Alexandrian Library version. Also, based on legion, Enoch was to have written 365 books, where there is no way of telling how much of this so called information may have made it into what is currently presented as the Books of Enoch.  There were a few things that I found in the text which did help clear up a few things for me, but then I was just reading for general information.

     

  17. Midi,
    According to UB Jesus read the one that introduces readers to the title, “Son of Man.” I believe it is the Ethiopic edition where we encounter that title. And if I am correct, then Jesus was reading that specific text.

    Midi, have you read the Book of Enoch? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

    Yes, there are three and one as an alternate translation, which kind of makes it four, however there is a lot of information contained in them, where it would be difficult to give an overall viewpoint of one without referencing to specific version. It would be difficult to associate the Urantia Books reference to the Book of Enoch because Jesus, apparently read a version that may have been the Alexandrian Library version. Also, based on legion, Enoch was to have written 365 books, where there is no way of telling how much of this so called information may have made it into what is currently presented as the Books of Enoch. There were a few things that I found in the text which did help clear up a few things for me, but then I was just reading for general information.

    BB

  18. According to UB Jesus read the one that introduces readers to the title, “Son of Man.” I believe it is the Ethiopic edition where we encounter that title. And if I am correct, then Jesus was reading that specific text.

    Thanks BB.  My first copy of these text was ordered from the Oxford University Press, over twenty-five yeas ago, in hard copy.  It is easier to read and search the text online through a PDF formatted copy, which I also have several however one of the most complete copies might be the following attached:

     

  19. According to UB Jesus read the one that introduces readers to the title, “Son of Man.” I believe it is the Ethiopic edition where we encounter that title. And if I am correct, then Jesus was reading that specific text.

    Thanks BB. My first copy of these text was ordered from the Oxford University Press, over twenty-five yeas ago, in hard copy. It is easier to read and search the text online through a PDF formatted copy, which I also have several however one of the most complete copies might be the following attached:

    The copy I have is contained in The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha by James Charlesworth. I bought mine in 1992. I was fortunate to gain access to a 1960 or 70s edition vaulted at a public library in Brooklyn NYC. An amazing experience! to say the least :-)

    BB

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