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Mark of the Beast (and its eradication)

25 posts · 6 participants · started Jun 18, 2019, 10:19 AM

Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jun 18, 2019, 10:19 AM
Dear Forum Friends,

Been meditating on methods for ‘eradicating’ this mark. Mostly because this is what we will be about on the first heaven, the Mansion Worlds. By the time we reach the seventh mansion the mark has been removed (like an unwanted tatoo apparently, with the attendant pain and subsequent liberation from unfortunate genetics and the errors acquired growing up in an unspiritual environment).

Here’s the quote, from the Section on the seventh and final Mansion World:

…Here you will be purged of all the remnants of unfortunate heredity, unwholesome environment, and unspiritual planetary tendencies. The last remnants of the “mark of the beast” are here eradicated…. 47:9.1 (538.6)

That’s the only mention of the mark in all the UB, but the message is unmistakable.

I struggle not to personalize the mark, by referring to it as a beast (What do you want now beast? Ever see a movie, Little Shops of Horrors? The beast’s constant refrain is: Feed me!). But this is not personal, it’s simply that we MUST EVOLVE. The authors tell us that about our selves, our society, our religion, that evolution can’t be negated. The fixes for our woes and shortcomings can’t be instantly installed. I have to master myself by evolution and that means, at some point (points?) directly facing the challenge of eradicating the mark.

But having to evolve was a relief to discover. Now I know why I can’t just say, ok, no more sugar, or smokes, or spare ribs, or tv, or whatever! What all is in the domain in the mark? Hatred, revenge, anger, all those poisons too?

…While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve…. 101:4.2 (1109.3)

So, tell me about your method of dealing with the mark, if you do, but only to the degree you feel comfortable. Maybe you’ve already taken an attitude as in Oscar Wilde’s quip: ‘The only way dispose of temptation is to indulge it’, or something close to that.

I use meditation and prayer to talk these matters over with the three on-board divine pilots. I’m at a spot in life where extended periods without distraction are possible, which prompts such interests as thinking about beginning the eradication process of the mark while still on Urantia. Evidently it’s possible, fusers like Elijah did it. We are informed that sometime in the future, during the ages of Light and Life, mortals will skip over the mansion worlds. Can’t hurt to at least till the soil of soul, for the morontia miracle of mortal spirit-flowering and the eventual removal of an unattractive birthmark. Or should we think of it as a shedding of the cocoon of evolutionary birth?

NB: The phrase comes from John Zebedee’s distorted and confused record titled ‘Revelations’, the last book of the Bible’s New Testatment:

Revelation 16:2: And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

Revelation 19:20: And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

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Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Jun 18, 2019, 10:54 AM
Hi Rick, I have always found this quote helpful. Spiritual things cannot be had by sheer will power alone, they must be loved in order to be known. The more you love God, the more those beastly scabs fall off.

156:5.5 But let me warn you against the folly of undertaking to surmount temptation by the effort of supplanting one desire by another and supposedly superior desire through the mere force of the human will. If you would be truly triumphant over the temptations of the lesser and lower nature, you must come to that place of spiritual advantage where you have really and truly developed an actual interest in, and love for, those higher and more idealistic forms of conduct which your mind is desirous of substituting for these lower and less idealistic habits of behavior that you recognize as temptation. You will in this way be delivered through spiritual transformation rather than be increasingly overburdened with the deceptive suppression of mortal desires. The old and the inferior will be forgotten in the love for the new and the superior. Beauty is always triumphant over ugliness in the hearts of all who are illuminated by the love of truth. There is mighty power in the expulsive energy of a new and sincere spiritual affection. And again I say to you, be not overcome by evil but rather overcome evil with good.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jun 18, 2019, 11:18 AM

Bonita wrote:

Hi Rick, I have always found this quote helpful. Spiritual things cannot be had by sheer will power alone, they must be loved in order to be known. The more you love God, the more those beastly scabs fall off.

156:5.5 But let me warn you against the folly of undertaking to surmount temptation by the effort of supplanting one desire by another and supposedly superior desire through the mere force of the human will. If you would be truly triumphant over the temptations of the lesser and lower nature, you must come to that place of spiritual advantage where you have really and truly developed an actual interest in, and love for, those higher and more idealistic forms of conduct which your mind is desirous of substituting for these lower and less idealistic habits of behavior that you recognize as temptation. You will in this way be delivered through spiritual transformation rather than be increasingly overburdened with the deceptive suppression of mortal desires. The old and the inferior will be forgotten in the love for the new and the superior. Beauty is always triumphant over ugliness in the hearts of all who are illuminated by the love of truth. There is mighty power in the expulsive energy of a new and sincere spiritual affection. And again I say to you, be not overcome by evil but rather overcome evil with good.

Thanks Bonita. That’s one vote for love as a method of mark eradication. What else can be said? Love more is the answer to every conflict. But there must be more. I get the idea that our class may spend thousands of years on mansonia in the beastmark eradication process.

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Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jun 19, 2019, 12:28 PM
Mansion 1, Scene 1:

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There you are, in your new morintia bod, awake and alive on M1, having been resurrected 30 days ago. You’ve already been to many of the prominent worship and recreation sites on M1. The novelty of resurrection is turning into full-on realization of morontia training and the long journey ahead. Everybody in your awakening class is talking about the meaning and eradication of their mark of the beast, it’s one of the first topics to tackle. You brought the MOTB with you, what you didn’t ditch back on your world of origin. So did everyone else. There are all types and kinds of ascending pilgrims in your class, from a variety of evolutionary spheres. On some the mark hardly seems evident, others it is deeply ingrained, and painfully obvious. We pick up over there just where we left off here, but there’s nowhere to hide deficiencies on Mansonia.

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I’m presuming the way of teaching us how to remove it is done with utmost love and our highest good in mind, by the angels, Melchizedeks, and other teacher-hosts of Mansonia. But the only way to expose and eliminate the mark is putting the being under pressure, no? I’m further presuming that is done by having us work and play together, not wholly unlike what we do here on Urantia (except for the blood). On Earth we grind the rough edges off one another thereby producing the stuff of souls, character and value. Our souls are in some state of polish when we awaken in Resurrection Hall, but evidently not polished enough or we wouldn’t have found ourselves on M1. We’d already be soaring on M6 or M7, anticipating life on Jerusem, where the MOTB is no longer found in ascendant citizens.

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So, the scene is set. There must be a lot more to the MOTB than I realize if it’s going to take centuries (or more?) for our class to ascend the seven mansions and efface every vestige of the MOTB, no? But why does it take so long? Shouldn’t a few decades be enough to remove even the deepest mark? What all does the mark imply? My curiosity runneth over, but maybe it’s just the beast acting out.

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Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Jun 19, 2019, 1:56 PM
I think the MOTB is our materiality, the stuff that gives way to material gravity. It’s gotta go if you want to soar, no? But I think we have to be weaned off of that gradually or we’ll bungee out of control . . . even deform our personality.

I don’t think pressure is the way we’re taught on the mansion worlds. Pressure would push you into the material gravity grip. I think it’s more like gentle pulling in the direction of mind and spiritual gravity, a sort of reverse pressure. Anyway, that’s my cartoon version.

103:5.11 But man is not saved or ennobled by pressure. Spirit growth springs from within the evolving soul. Pressure may deform the personality, but it never stimulates growth. Even educational pressure is only negatively helpful in that it may aid in the prevention of disastrous experiences. Spiritual growth is greatest where all external pressures are at a minimum. “Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.” Man develops best when the pressures of home, community, church, and state are least. But this must not be construed as meaning that there is no place in a progressive society for home, social institutions, church, and state.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jun 20, 2019, 9:34 AM

Bonita wrote:

I think the MOTB is our materiality, the stuff that gives way to material gravity. It’s gotta go if you want to soar, no? But I think we have to be weaned off of that gradually or we’ll bungee out of control . . . even deform our personality. I don’t think pressure is the way we’re taught on the mansion worlds.

103:5.11 But man is not saved or ennobled by pressure.

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Oh dang Bonita, busted again. All right, scenario 2:

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We arrive on Mansonia and soon the novelty wears off. We get settled in the mansion world routine, and school begins for the new class of ascenders. We’re all in it together but there’s little to no pressure, except the pressure we put on ourselves by observing and being in the presence of so many loving, fearless, truly great beings without a trace of the MOTB, and comparing their status and achievements to ours. We’re back to where you first led, growth in love by constantly providing the soil for it, ‘watering the garden of the soul’ and watching the fruits emerge through no effort save for expanding capacity. All this is done in the context of work, play, and inspired creative expression. Sound plausible?

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When writing my first book, Resurrection Hall, I recall we two diverged on the depiction of Mansion life. If I recall correctly, you suggested showing it like it will be, not a cartoon version. We may agree that everyone will be working hard on the MOTB eradication process, but how exactly? I don’t see how that can happen without trying experiences. But maybe that’s just my limited understanding and terrestrial perspective.

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Materiality eh? Do you think we will find addictive behavior on Mansonia? Greed? Cowardice? Covetousness? If we died with these and other negative traits still in our hearts, there’s no reason to think death negated them is there? Maybe it’s a higher form of materiality you speak of? Willfully hanging onto pride, fame, or personal glory? What else comes to mind?

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Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Jun 20, 2019, 12:12 PM

Rick Warren wrote:

. . . through no effort

Disagree with that. No work no growth.

Rick Warren wrote:

I don’t see how that can happen without trying experiences.

I agree, but perhaps my idea of “trying experiences” differs from yours? Problem solving on a cosmic scale can be trying. The good news is that we won’t have all the emotional baggage that makes every little thing on this planet seem like trauma drama. Plus, we’ll have better access to superphilosphy, or super-wisdom, which will better help us find new meanings in old facts.

But we will still have all those coarse vestiges of human nature to deal with like insincerity and scapegoating, so I think our greatest problems will be personal and interpersonal relationships – socializing the personality with others who also have those same animal vestigial traits. There will be plenty of personal disappointments to deal with. There will be plenty of frictions between people to deal will. I think the angels organize us in groups designed to help us master the source of these frictions. I don’t think it’s done by will power, it’s done by discovering each other’s motivations and learning new ways to think about our differences. I’ll tell you, I’m not looking forward to meeting some people up there. I won’t be able to fake liking them there any better than I could fake liking them here. There’ll be no faking allowed.

Rick Warren wrote:

What else comes to mind?

Anything that has to do with the ego. After fusion, when the ego is totally mastered, I can only imagine and hope to have, those kinds of problems to solve, but I’m not sure what the nature of them would be. Probably more cosmic in nature, more integrative and Supreme oriented, but don’t know. At that point maybe it’s not so much about conquering our unspiritual tendencies, but rather discovering our spiritual tendencies and applying them appropriately, sort of polishing the character to a finer shine.

47:8.7 The shadow of the mortal nature grows less and less as these worlds are ascended one by one. You are becoming more and more adorable as you leave behind the coarse vestiges of planetary animal origin. “Coming up through great tribulation” serves to make glorified mortals very kind and understanding, very sympathetic and tolerant.

48:5.8 One of the purposes of the morontia career is to effect the permanent eradication from the mortal survivors of such animal vestigial traits as procrastination, equivocation, insincerity, problem avoidance, unfairness, and ease seeking. The mansonia life early teaches the young morontia pupils that postponement is in no sense avoidance. After the life in the flesh, time is no longer available as a technique of dodging situations or of circumventing disagreeable obligations.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jun 21, 2019, 10:00 AM

Bonita wrote:

Rick Warren wrote:

. . . through no effort

Disagree with that. No work no growth.

Ok, ok (wouldn’t feel right without a bust). Effort is required…but the ‘yolk is easy’.

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Rick Warren wrote:

I don’t see how that can happen without trying experiences.

Bonita wrote: I agree, but perhaps my idea of “trying experiences” differs from yours? Problem solving on a cosmic scale can be trying.

Indeed.

…The good news is that we won’t have all the emotional baggage that makes every little thing on this planet seem like trauma drama.

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Really. I figured that was part of ‘you gain nothing by death’ teaching, and ‘you start over there right where you were’ on Urantia.’

Plus, we’ll have better access to superphilosphy, or super-wisdom, which will better help us find new meanings in old facts.

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Mo’ Mota. Gimme Mota, Mama (Got to write a song… I know, I know, philosophy is Michael’s bailiwick).

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…I think our greatest problems will be personal and interpersonal relationships – socializing the personality with others who also have those same animal vestigial traits. There will be plenty of personal disappointments to deal with. There will be plenty of frictions between people to deal will.

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Yeah, that’s the polishing chamber theory. We’re put together to grind off the rough edges when the tumbler spins. Sounds awful that way… How about we call it the mansonia rectification, a polishing school for pilgrims?

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I think the angels organize us in groups designed to help us master the source of these frictions. I don’t think it’s done by will power, it’s done by discovering each other’s motivations and learning new ways to think about our differences.

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I was thinking the same, probably it will be class time followed by application time.

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I’ll tell you, I’m not looking forward to meeting some people up there.

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That’s an interesting topic by itself. I suspect there’s going to be a whole lot o’ reckoning, confronting, apologizing, and forgiving, which is the stuff of personal transformation, no?

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I won’t be able to fake liking them there any better than I could fake liking them here. There’ll be no faking allowed.

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Another interesting subject. I’d rather think that fake falls away quickly in such a comparatively rarefied spiritual environment.

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Rick Warren asked:

What else comes to mind?

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Anything that has to do with the ego. After fusion, when the ego is totally mastered, I can only imagine and hope to have, those kinds of problems to solve, but I’m not sure what the nature of them would be. Probably more cosmic in nature, more integrative and Supreme oriented, but don’t know. At that point maybe it’s not so much about conquering our unspiritual tendencies, but rather discovering our spiritual tendencies and applying them appropriately, sort of polishing the character to a finer shine.

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Back to the rock polisher.

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47:8.7 The shadow of the mortal nature grows less and less as these worlds are ascended one by one. You are becoming more and more adorable as you leave behind the coarse vestiges of planetary animal origin. “Coming up through great tribulation” serves to make glorified mortals very kind and understanding, very sympathetic and tolerant.

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48:5.8 One of the purposes of the morontia career is to effect the permanent eradication from the mortal survivors of such animal vestigial traits as procrastination, equivocation, insincerity, problem avoidance, unfairness, and ease seeking. The mansonia life early teaches the young morontia pupils that postponement is in no sense avoidance. After the life in the flesh, time is no longer available as a technique of dodging situations or of circumventing disagreeable obligations.

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That’s helpful. A picture is forming, the image is becoming a little clearer. Scenario #3:

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We’ve been on Mansion one and are just about oriented after 30 days of roving and getting our morontia legs. There have been tutorials on the basics of morontia body, mind, and spirit. Now it’s time for our first class in eradicating the MOTB. On the list of telltale signs of MOTB is scapegoating, procrastination, equivocation, insincerity, problem avoidance, unfairness, and ease seeking. Add in, insincerity, ego, and unspiritual tendencies. So, the scene needs to depict we agondonters interacting with our peers, getting into situations that demand observation of materiality, exposure of beastly tendencies.

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So, do you think there will be scenes like these?
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~ Mary and Larry meet for the first time since resurrection, and they have some heavy issues. She killed him on Urantia.

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~ John and Sonja have big issues left over from a bitter divorce. Their kids are there too.

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~ A group of innocent prisoners meet a once cruel guard?

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~ A child turns 16 and decides not to live on.

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Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Jun 21, 2019, 12:51 PM

Rick Warren wrote:

…The good news is that we won’t have all the emotional baggage that makes every little thing on this planet seem like trauma drama. . Really. I figured that was part of ‘you gain nothing by death’ teaching, and ‘you start over there right where you were’ on Urantia.’

I was thinking that we would not have some of the human adjutant emotions that get us into so much trouble in this life, For instance, we won’t have fear, and maybe we won’t have anger or wrath either. We’re supposed to be nearest to angels in the next life so I have to assume our emotions will be more like theirs, let’s hope.

38:2.6 In nature and personality endowment the seraphim are just a trifle ahead of mortal races in the scale of creature existence. Indeed, when you are delivered from the flesh, you become very much like them.

113:2.5 The angels develop an abiding affection for their human associates; and you would, if you could only visualize the seraphim, develop a warm affection for them. Divested of material bodies, given spirit forms, you would be very near the angels in many attributes of personality. They share most of your emotions and experience some additional ones. The only emotion actuating you which is somewhat difficult for them to comprehend is the legacy of animal fear that bulks so large in the mental life of the average inhabitant of Urantia. The angels really find it hard to understand why you will so persistently allow your higher intellectual powers, even your religious faith, to be so dominated by fear, so thoroughly demoralized by the thoughtless panic of dread and anxiety.

113:5.2 Angels are so near you and care so feelingly for you that they figuratively “weep because of your willful intolerance and stubbornness.” Seraphim do not shed physical tears; they do not have physical bodies; neither do they possess wings. But they do have spiritual emotions, and they do experience feelings and sentiments of a spiritual nature which are in certain ways comparable to human emotions.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jun 23, 2019, 9:46 AM

Bonita wrote:

I was thinking that we would not have some of the human adjutant emotions that get us into so much trouble in this life, For instance, we won’t have fear, and maybe we won’t have anger or wrath either. We’re supposed to be nearest to angels in the next life so I have to assume our emotions will be more like theirs, let’s hope.

That’s yet another fascinating topic: Adjutant influence on the embryonic soul–pre- and post-morotia. But don’t we have to wonder whether residual emotions of fear, anger, and vengefulness carry over? There’s no reason to fear on mansonia, but then Jesus instructed us not to fear even on mad Urantia. Those emotions would seem to be part of the MOTB that we will polish off by the end of the mansion trek.

Anyway, thanks much for your insights and reflections on the topic. I may have enough grasp of our immediate future life to create a plausible story around eradicating the MOTB, to satisfy your kindly admonition about portraying it as it really is on the mansion worlds (and plausible, hopefully, at least from UB perspective). All we really know is the beginning here on Urantia, that our shortcomings and ego attachments will be exposed for excision on mansonia, and that the end scene is the total eradication of the MOTB. It’s rich soil for growing a future-life fable, but my imagination is taxed by utter lack of facts about the middle, but you gave much to think on. I need one (or more) of those visions John Zebedee had.

Richard E Warren
BradlyParticipant
Jun 23, 2019, 12:25 PM
Isn’t adjutant mind itself the MOTB? Or contains it? Or the first 5 are the very source of it?

Our first task by spiritization and circle progress is to transfer the seat of our identity. From the animal mind and MOTB nature to the spirit nature and morontia mind NOT connected to the adjutant mind.

Angels and celestials do not have evolutionary , material, adjutant mind so no prior legacy to overcome. We arrive to the morontial levels with more or less soul growth and more or less attachment to and dependence still upon our animal nature and adjutant mind’s influence and legacy. We each arrive with more Circle progress or less, with more identity transfer or less, and thusly with more MOTB or less. Every survivor has a different amount for eradication. Or so I understand .

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Jun 23, 2019, 1:43 PM

Rick Warren wrote:

Adjutant influence on the embryonic soul–pre- and post-morotia. But don’t we have to wonder whether residual emotions of fear, anger, and vengefulness carry over?

Think about it. If fear is an adjutant emotion, and the adjutants are not part of mind ministry on the mansion worlds, if the adjutants are left behind on planet earth, how can fear be a part of our morontia minds? There is no adjutant influence at all in the next life. Allow me to repeat: the mind we have in the next life has absolutely no adjutant ministry whatsoever. The ministry to our morontia mind is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, the Adjuster and the cosmic mind, just as it is here on this planet. Where will that emotion of fear come from if it’s stuck to the adjutants encircuiting earth? Fear certainly wasn’t a part of any noble character trait embroidered onto the morontia fabric of our souls during our lifetimes in the flesh. Fear is not a salvable commodity. It served it’s evolutionary purpose on the physical planet, but has no purpose at all on the morontia spheres. Does that sound logical to you?

Rick Warren wrote:

our shortcomings and ego attachments will be exposed for excision on mansonia, and that the end scene is the total eradication of the MOTB.

Allow me to admonish you that nothing is excised. The mansion worlds are a gradual dematerialization process which slowly evolves. The MOTB is simply our materiality which gradually transforms 570 times becoming spiritual rather than material. We begin on the first mansion world almost entirely material and progress to first-stage spirit beings who no longer need a new body, or life form, to continue spiritual growth. The MOTB is nothing more than shedding the material gravity pull and embracing the spiritual gravity drawing power to ascend.

47:9.5 You will greatly enjoy your progress through the seven dematerializing worlds; they are really demortalizing spheres.

48:2.22 While the basic morontia forms of life and matter are identical from the first mansion world to the last universe transition sphere, there is a functional progression which gradually extends from the material to the spiritual.

When you depict these events in writing you need to understand the morontia psyche. The best way to understand that is to be familiar with the psyche of your own soul in regards to interpersonal relationships. On the mansion worlds we will be known by the persons we associate with. Personality relationships are not perishable regardless of their nature.

112:5.22 The Thought Adjuster will recall and rehearse for you only those memories and experiences which are a part of, and essential to, your universe career. If the Adjuster has been a partner in the evolution of aught in the human mind, then will these worth-while experiences survive in the eternal consciousness of the Adjuster. But much of your past life and its memories, having neither spiritual meaning nor morontia value, will perish with the material brain; much of material experience will pass away as onetime scaffolding which, having bridged you over to the morontia level, no longer serves a purpose in the universe. But personality and the relationships between personalities are never scaffolding; mortal memory of personality relationships has cosmic value and will persist. On the mansion worlds you will know and be known, and more, you will remember, and be remembered by, your onetime associates in the short but intriguing life on Urantia.
Mark KurtzParticipant
Jun 23, 2019, 4:41 PM
Rick, Bonita,

You provide good reading here and I’d bet many people would appreciate your insightful clarity on this topic. Would you, perhaps with others also, collaborate writing a paper, essay on this topic? Perhaps, if its published online at your preferred site, UAI Journal and Fellowship Herald would publish the URL link to find your piece.

Discussing this with my wife briefly, hearing her response about other persons’ definitions, I am reminded of profound error about the MOTB. Intuition tells me the need for clarity is great. Perhaps removing fear about the MOTB would be a great service, as new dignity would result!

Is this possible?
BonitaParticipant
Jun 23, 2019, 10:09 PM

Mark Kurtz wrote:

Is this possible?

Not sure. Rick is the book writer, not me. I tried once but no one understood a single thing I wrote so I trashed it. No talent there.

I’m curious though. Do you think most people think the mark of the beast is something apocalyptic, gross and sinful? A contaminant left over from the Rebellion? What do you think most people interpret it to be?
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jun 24, 2019, 10:11 AM

Bradly wrote:

Isn’t adjutant mind itself the MOTB? Or contains it? Or the first 5 are the very source of it?

Good questions, Bradly, but I just can’t conceive of Adjutant mind and MOTB as synonymous, or Adjutant mind as MOTB’s repository. I think of the MOTB as no more than a collection of bad decisions that have to be re-decided to align with the divine. And I can’t think of the Adjutants as the source of MOTB, rather the child of the misuse of the Adjutants. But I’m new to Adjutant bashing

Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jun 24, 2019, 10:38 AM

Bonita wrote:

Rick Warren wrote:

Adjutant influence on the embryonic soul–pre- and post-morotia. But don’t we have to wonder whether residual emotions of fear, anger, and vengefulness carry over?

Think about it. If fear is an adjutant emotion, and the adjutants are not part of mind ministry on the mansion worlds, if the adjutants are left behind on planet earth, how can fear be a part of our morontia minds? There is no adjutant influence at all in the next life. Allow me to repeat: the mind we have in the next life has absolutely no adjutant ministry whatsoever. The ministry to our morontia mind is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, the Adjuster and the cosmic mind, just as it is here on this planet. Where will that emotion of fear come from if it’s stuck to the adjutants encircuiting earth? Fear certainly wasn’t a part of any noble character trait embroidered onto the morontia fabric of our souls during our lifetimes in the flesh. Fear is not a salvable commodity. It served it’s evolutionary purpose on the physical planet, but has no purpose at all on the morontia spheres. Does that sound logical to you?

Hmm…Must have missed where the authors said fear is only associated with adjutant mind on evolutionary worlds. Didn’t the mansion worlders experience fear for their loved ones and from their traitorous angels when rebellion broke out on Jerusem? Maybe not. Is fear strictly animal? What about fear of not passing a morontia exam? Would that be mere anxiety? Am I anthropomorphizing?

Rick Warren wrote:

our shortcomings and ego attachments will be exposed for excision on mansonia, and that the end scene is the total eradication of the MOTB.

Allow me to admonish you that nothing is excised.

Why o why didn’t I use the word eradicate and avoid a bust? Maybe so you’d render this excellent instruction:

The mansion worlds are a gradual dematerialization process which slowly evolves. The MOTB is simply our materiality which gradually transforms 570 times becoming spiritual rather than material. We begin on the first mansion world almost entirely material and progress to first-stage spirit beings who no longer need a new body, or life form, to continue spiritual growth. The MOTB is nothing more than shedding the material gravity pull and embracing the spiritual gravity drawing power to ascend..

A throwing off of the chains of materiality, so to speak.

When you depict these events in writing you need to understand the morontia psyche. The best way to understand that is to be familiar with the psyche of your own soul in regards to interpersonal relationships.

Always working on that. It was a hard lesson, not everyone loves my soulful harmonica playing

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On the mansion worlds we will be known by the persons we associate with..

Really! I suspect we’d constantly be put into situations that get us out of our social bubbles. There are those revelations about living with diverse beings for growth in understanding, tact, and tolerance. And presumably, ERADICATION of MOTB.

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Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jun 24, 2019, 10:55 AM

Mark Kurtz wrote:

Rick, Bonita, You provide good reading here and I’d bet many people would appreciate your insightful clarity on this topic. Would you, perhaps with others also, collaborate writing a paper, essay on this topic? Perhaps, if its published online at your preferred site, UAI Journal and Fellowship Herald would publish the URL link to find your piece. Discussing this with my wife briefly, hearing her response about other persons’ definitions, I am reminded of profound error about the MOTB. Intuition tells me the need for clarity is great. Perhaps removing fear about the MOTB would be a great service, as new dignity would result! Is this possible?

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Thanks Mark, we’re thinking alike. The underlying purpose, the reason behind this thread was to test the potential and possibility of writing about the MOTB eradication process on mansonia, maybe as a follow up story to Resurrection Hall. But that’s a couple years ahead, a goodly period to let the idea simmer on one of the back burners of the blessed Mind. Much appreciate everyone’s input, just what was hoped for.

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Richard E Warren
MaraParticipant
Jun 24, 2019, 5:08 PM

Rick Warren wrote:

Here’s the quote, from the Section on the seventh and final Mansion World:

…Here you will be purged of all the remnants of unfortunate heredity, unwholesome environment, and unspiritual planetary tendencies. The last remnants of the “mark of the beast” are here eradicated…. 47:9.1 (538.6)

Question: did Jesus have the MOTB?

While he was on earth, he attained or achieved the circles of mind understanding and personality control. . .

134:8.4 Jesus spent the last three weeks of August and the first three weeks of September on Mount Hermon. During these weeks he finished the mortal task of achieving the circles of mind-understanding and personality-control. Throughout this period of communion with his heavenly Father the indwelling Adjuster also completed the assigned services. The mortal goal of this earth creature was there attained. Only the final phase of mind and Adjuster attunement remained to be consummated.

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134:8.5 After more than five weeks of unbroken communion with his Paradise Father, Jesus became absolutely assured of his nature and of the certainty of his triumph over the material levels of time-space personality manifestation. He fully believed in, and did not hesitate to assert, the ascendancy of his divine nature over his human nature.

In other words he functioned as a dual personality – human and divine – the Son of Man and the Son of God.

Is the MOTB erradicated when we fuse?
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jun 25, 2019, 9:24 AM

Mara wrote:

Rick Warren wrote:

Here’s the quote, from the Section on the seventh and final Mansion World:

…Here you will be purged of all the remnants of unfortunate heredity, unwholesome environment, and unspiritual planetary tendencies. The last remnants of the “mark of the beast” are here eradicated…. 47:9.1 (538.6)

Question: did Jesus have the MOTB? While he was on earth, he attained or achieved the circles of mind understanding and personality control. . .

Interesting question, Mara. I would postulate, that if his life was sinless, and we have every reason to think it was, where then would the MOTB take root? On what fold of mind would it appear?

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134:8.4 Jesus spent the last three weeks of August and the first three weeks of September on Mount Hermon. During these weeks he finished the mortal task of achieving the circles of mind-understanding and personality-control. Throughout this period of communion with his heavenly Father the indwelling Adjuster also completed the assigned services. The mortal goal of this earth creature was there attained. Only the final phase of mind and Adjuster attunement remained to be consummated.

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134:8.5 After more than five weeks of unbroken communion with his Paradise Father, Jesus became absolutely assured of his nature and of the certainty of his triumph over the material levels of time-space personality manifestation. He fully believed in, and did not hesitate to assert, the ascendancy of his divine nature over his human nature.

In other words he functioned as a dual personality – human and divine – the Son of Man and the Son of God. Is the MOTB eradicated when we fuse?

As I understand it, we all have to eradicate the MOTB before fusion can take place. Your quote is the only MOTB quote in the UB:

…Here you will be purged of all the remnants of unfortunate heredity, unwholesome environment, and unspiritual planetary tendencies. The last remnants of the “mark of the beast” are here eradicated…. 47:9.1 (538.6)

But there is another mention of “the beast”:

He recorded: “And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and those who had gained the victory over the beast that was originally in them and over the image that persisted through the mansion worlds and finally over the last mark and trace, standing on the sea of glass, having the harps of God, and singing the song of deliverance from mortal fear and death.” 47:10:2 (539.4)

We gotta have the words and tune of that song :)

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Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Jun 25, 2019, 12:58 PM

Rick Warren wrote:

I would postulate, that if his life was sinless, and we have every reason to think it was, where then would the MOTB take root? On what fold of mind would it appear?

The MOTB has nothing to do with sin, it doesn’t take root and it doesn’t suddenly appear. The metaphor of the beast has nothing at all to do with the Book of Revelations or Lucifer/Satan. The metaphor of the beast has to do with our animal origins, our materiality. If there’s any beast it would be our racial inheritance, our original andonic or Sangik traits which have their roots in our early primitive ancestors.

The MOTB is not a “fold of mind”. It is character traits tainted by animal legacy, or materiality. Not all of our animal legacy is bad, most of it has great potential, and none of it is sinful, just immature and imperfect, which makes it evil. As we ascend through the mansion world system our characters become more adorable, in other words, more lovable, more spiritually attractive, less beastly or animal-like.

47:8.7 The shadow of the mortal nature grows less and less as these worlds are ascended one by one. You are becoming more and more adorable as you leave behind the coarse vestiges of planetary animal origin. “Coming up through great tribulation” serves to make glorified mortals very kind and understanding, very sympathetic and tolerant.

Rick Warren wrote:

As I understand it, we all have to eradicate the MOTB before fusion can take place.

Well that can’t be true if the MOTB is not purged until the very last mansion world. If that were true Jesus wouldn’t have gone to the mansion worlds like EVERY mortal must. No one gets to skip the mansion worlds, not even those who fuse and are translated.

55:2.7 Mortal observers can see nothing of their translated associates subsequent to the fusion flash. Such translated souls proceed by Adjuster transit direct to the resurrection hall of the appropriate morontia-training world.

I think only souls from planets in the final stage of planetary light and life can skip the mansion worlds, but those planets themselves are essentially equivalent to the mansion world experience where materiality is eliminated prior to fusion. In other words, they don’t need 570 transitions in order to make it to first-stage spirit status. Somehow that happens on the planet of nativity. But they only nearly escape the mansion world experience, they probably do need at least one transition in life form in order to begin their local universe career.

55:2.9 The translated souls of the flowering ages of the settled spheres do not pass through the mansion worlds. Neither do they sojourn, as students, on the morontia worlds of the system or constellation. They do not pass through any of the earlier phases of morontia life. They are the only ascending mortals who so nearly escape the morontia transition from material existence to semispirit status.

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