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Looking at the Foreword

37 posts · 9 participants · started Nov 17, 2017, 2:24 AM

GeneParticipant
Nov 17, 2017, 2:24 AM
not too many threads on the forward so here’s an attempt.

when I try to introduce new readers many times I suggest avoiding the forward. That’s because of my great difficulty with it and may not be the correct approach. Anyone else do this? I tend to send people to part 4 as an introduction.

also, a most awesome experience with the forward that did not come to me until after a few attempts was when I realized that so much of my past religious experience in the Mormon Church was abruptly upgraded as I discovered that Diety is antecedent to God the father/person – wow. Anyone have difficulty accepting that one? Old biases challenged and not easy to let go of?

Well that one set me on a path to understanding the revelation on a bit of a higher level but it’s a concept that gets the eyes rolling for people not familiar with the book. I mean, the traditional God idea got expanded on in a way totally unexpected and it’s difficult to talk about.

I also have come to realize that all 4 parts of the revelation have much more meaning when the forward has been studied in depth. So maybe it’s better to bite the bullet and dig into the forward straight away.

any thoughts?

any favorite parts or experiences with the forward??

every word in the forward is chosen so carefully and meanings happen for me with much effort.

and I can go on: when diety and God are understood on this higher level then another challenge to tradition happens: the idea of one God and then the use of the term God to describe many Gods that make their way from perfection/eternity to our local universe – but there is only one god. Love to try to think through this.

i think that one must have a certain attitude when approaching the forward in order to get something out of it.
AndréParticipant
Nov 17, 2017, 7:19 AM
Hi Gene,

As yourself, part IV was easiest to proceed, 27 years ago.

On the long range, Spirit of Truth, TA, spiritual ministries do their purpose. Thats’s why I do not get involved in that and stick to my responsability.

If my neighbor cross my path then I respond. Not worries if my ignorance or audacity will endanger God’s plan.

Everything is in God’s hands. Revelators could and do recommand reading in a specific sequence if that progression seems not suitable as it was for me …. it is ok.
BonitaParticipant
Nov 17, 2017, 11:40 AM
I have to say that it was the Foreword that sucked me in. That very first sentence where it says ” . . . that being the name of your world . . .”. I mean, HOLY COW! Right from the git-go you know it’s bigger than life, and that’s what scared me most, the fact that I was reading something written by someone not from this world. Mind blowing!! and in a good way.

Personally, I think the only way to read the book is from first page to last. That’s the way I did it several times. The first read took years and years, but without struggling through the Foreword and all those foundational boring papers, I would have never understood what the heck was going on in the rest of the book. How can you open one of those papers on the gazillions of different celestial personalities and not have a basic understanding of the difference between existential and experiential, not to mention its purpose?

I truly believe that many of the crazy ideas in the UB community come from a haphazard reading approach which skips this or that because the mind can’t wrap itself around it. The book is a mind exercise. Everyone knows that to build physical muscle you begin at the beginning and build slow and steady. Same for mind muscle, no difference. There’s a structure to the book which is crucial, and obviously purposeful. I say, if you’re interested in building mind muscle, then do the calisthenics as designed by the Trainers . . . slow and steady and from the top.
MaraParticipant
Nov 17, 2017, 5:16 PM

Bonita wrote:

I truly believe that many of the crazy ideas in the UB community come from a haphazard reading approach. . . .

In my opinion I think people come to the book with crazy ideas to begin with. They use the book to support their crazy or preconceived ideas. I bought the book when I was in a cult which cult used the book for its crazy ideas. I found the book on my bookshelf several years later, after disillusionment.

Bonita wrote:

The book is a mind exercise.

I like the way you put this. But I did read the book haphazardly for years, until I found other readers and established a study group in 1991. Since I had not read the Foreword on my own, it was very important for me to start study group at the beginning of the book. It was thrilling to sit with other readers, other minds, to launch the study of the book from its beginning – the Foreword.

I like how they tell us the Foreword is not a finished statement.

0:0.4 But in order to formulate this Foreword of definitions and limitations of terminology, it is necessary to anticipate the usage of these terms in the subsequent presentations. This Foreword is not, therefore, a finished statement within itself; it is only a definitive guide designed to assist those who shall read the accompanying papers dealing with Deity and the universe of universes which have been formulated by an Orvonton commission sent to Urantia for this purpose.

And because definitions and limitations of terminology are included in this part of the book, I use it for research when I am trying to understand something in another part of the book.
GeneParticipant
Nov 17, 2017, 5:55 PM
Bonita’s comment about a mind exercise and this quote as well as Mara’s comment about definitions and limitations of terminology: it makes me wonder why the authors chose the English language???

i have a vintage Webster’s dictionary from 1932 and it has 2,685 big pages in small print. Is there something about the depth of the English language that can be exploited in order to reveal complex concepts that is lacking in other languages??

0:0.4 But in order to formulate this Foreword of definitions and limitations of terminology, it is necessary to anticipate the usage of these terms in the subsequent presentations. This Foreword is not, therefore, a finished statement within itself; it is only a definitive guide designed to assist those who shall read the accompanying papers dealing with Deity and the universe of universes which have been formulated by an Orvonton commission sent to Urantia for this purpose.
And because definitions and limitations of terminology are included in this part of the book, I use it for research when I am trying to understand something in another part of the book.

anyway, how reassuring is it to know we live in a local universe, one of many that are inhabited and friendly.
chucksmith1982Participant
Nov 17, 2017, 11:50 PM
I struggled with the forward even after I read the ub for the first time. In my thread maximizing study of the urantia book, I outline a study method for studying the entire book. One of the steps in said method might come in handy here. Read papers 1 through 196… and then come back and read the forword. It’ll make more sence that way.
GeneParticipant
Nov 18, 2017, 2:03 AM
If I were to advise some new reader how to approach the revelation, assume starting with the forward, what could be good advice? It is so much more than reading a novel, a physics text, a philosophy book, or any of the Bible’s.

Whats the intent of the Mightymessenger? He wants to give us information that can be used throughout the book to help raise/expand our consciousness, reveal truth, give details of the universe we live in, it’s creators and the unity and over control of it all and our part in it, to make us feel at home and part of the divine plan and hopefully do something with this new information that will contribute to evolutionary progress of human beings.

and as we all relate to the revelation personally, personal interpretations must be important. Thinking through what each word, sentence, paragraph means and maybe trying to interpret from our level and toward God as well as trying to interpret as it comes to us down from God?? Trying to see beyond the words??

just thinking. I’m certain there are techniques out there where some are more successful than others.

How did the contact commission deal with the forward?? Bet they did not save it for later.
ColeParticipant
Nov 22, 2017, 12:35 AM
I have tried various methods….and often, no method.

If I deem the person to be very intelligent, I often suggest that they not read the Intro as it is difficult to understand (usually with a chuckle – a challenge). But usually, I tell them to look at the Table of Contents and choose what interests them.

I have found that suggesting the easier Part IV can often be counterproductive…as they will find something that quickly challenges their preconceptions (e.g., for Catholics – the large family of Jesus).
XobehtParticipant
Nov 22, 2017, 2:08 AM
I started from the beginning.

I read the foreword 7 times. I had to use the dictionary with it. I needed to understand it in a basic sense before I could go on with the rest of the book. Like Bonita I was hooked from the first sentence.

I then read it cover to cover, took 8 months reading every day for about 2 to 4 hours.

I read it 3 times that way cover to cover before I delved into specific parts. Next time I get another break I’m going to read it front to back again.

The foreward is one of my favorite parts. I recommend reading it over and over till it starts to sink in. The foreward gives an insight to the soul you cannot find anywhere else. It explains God THE way we need Him explained.

The UB is all about getting and understanding. The foreward provides a base for that understanding. I think it’s absorption is essential.

Anyway that was/is my approach and I highly recommend really sinking your teeth into it. Actually I used and still use a dictionary whenever I’m reading the UB.

Paul
GeneParticipant
Nov 24, 2017, 8:21 PM
Anyone want to discuss what is your most difficult topic to understand in the Forward?

Actually, it’s more like part one before part one It’s so much more than a forward.

i really get stumped on deity, deifying, deified, the absolutes and the things and beings affected by all this.

What really is diety? Should we relate to deity as persons or things or both?

We pray to God, not deity but he is a personal manifestation of deity, but we refer to him and the Son&Spirit and maybe others as deity.

another-is God the absolute distinguishable from the diety absolute??

anybody understand the discription of God the ultimate?

lots of fun eh?
BonitaParticipant
Nov 25, 2017, 11:23 AM

Gene wrote:

What really is diety? Should we relate to deity as persons or things or both?

Does this help?

11:9.4 When reality is differentiated into the personal and the nonpersonal (Eternal Son and Paradise), it is hardly proper to call that which is nonpersonal “Deity” unless somehow qualified. The energy and material repercussions of the acts of Deity could hardly be called Deity. Deity may cause much that is not Deity, and Paradise is not Deity; neither is it conscious as mortal man could ever possibly understand such a term.
GeneParticipant
Nov 25, 2017, 2:45 PM

Bonita wrote:

Gene wrote:

What really is diety? Should we relate to deity as persons or things or both?

Does this help?

11:9.4 When reality is differentiated into the personal and the nonpersonal (Eternal Son and Paradise), it is hardly proper to call that which is nonpersonal “Deity” unless somehow qualified. The energy and material repercussions of the acts of Deity could hardly be called Deity. Deity may cause much that is not Deity, and Paradise is not Deity; neither is it conscious as mortal man could ever possibly understand such a term.

Well , kind of but aren’t the nonpersonal acts of deity analogous to these descriptions of its character: Right from page 2 part one we are told that “deity is personalizable, it functions on 7 levels, it may be existential, experiencal, associative, undivided. It’s the source of divinity, it’s character is devine, unifying and co-ordinating, we see divinity as truth beauty goodness, and more – the point being deity, the way it is described seems more like an “it” . We get info on how it manifests and what it does and it’s character, not what it is.

It’s not really a person but is personalizable, it’s not really either of the Absolutes or the I Am nor is it God the father, son or spirit.

Am I totally confused and missing the point??

anyway, it remains unsettled in my mind.
BonitaParticipant
Nov 25, 2017, 3:15 PM

Gene wrote:

Am I totally confused and missing the point??

I think you’re confusing Deity and divinity. Here’s what I wrote in my treatise on the Holy Spirit – not sure if it will help or not.

Deity is the goal of personality experience and divinity is that quality of character which man potentially acquires for himself in his search for Deity (112:2.8;115:3.15). We are also told that spirit is the goal of personality existence. The realization of Deity for mortal man occurs upon fusion with the indwelling spirit, the Adjuster (117:3.9).

Deity, comprehended by humans, is both personal and minded. The Holy Spirit is the human mind’s first encounter with personal Deity as a unifying mind ministry. She, along with her angelic offspring, enables the human mind to utilize all of the impersonal ministries available to it, including the cosmic mind. She also prepares the mind for the ministry of the Spirit of Truth and the indwelling of the Adjuster, who is also impersonal (2:1.7).

Divinity is defined as the unifying and coordinating quality of Deity, and, as it turns out, functional unity is the very essence of mind ministry. Divinity is comprehensible to mind as truth, beauty and goodness and experienced by personality as love, mercy and ministry (0:1.16). The Holy Spirit is that unifying principle of soul intellect which strives to coordinate the qualities of truth, beauty and goodness into a functional unity of personal experience for the purpose of soul growth and increasing divinity of character.

Unity, like value, is both actual and potential; likewise, divinity is not always perfect despite its potential (0:1.18). Humans are imperfect, evolving towards perfection of divinity with ever increasing unity, taking potentials and actuating them by the power of personality choice. This process contributes to the evolution of the Supreme through power-personality synthesis. Mortal experience with the Holy Spirit, therefore, is registered in the Supreme Being and contributes to the evolution of divinity of the cosmos as well as the individual personality.
GeneParticipant
Nov 25, 2017, 7:20 PM

Bonita wrote:

Gene wrote:

Am I totally confused and missing the point??

I think you’re confusing Deity and divinity. Here’s what I wrote in my treatise on the Holy Spirit – not sure if it will help or not.

Deity is the goal of personality experience and divinity is that quality of character which man potentially acquires for himself in his search for Deity (112:2.8;115:3.15). We are also told that spirit is the goal of personality existence. The realization of Deity for mortal man occurs upon fusion with the indwelling spirit, the Adjuster (117:3.9). Deity, comprehended by humans, is both personal and minded. The Holy Spirit is the human mind’s first encounter with personal Deity as a unifying mind ministry. She, along with her angelic offspring, enables the human mind to utilize all of the impersonal ministries available to it, including the cosmic mind. She also prepares the mind for the ministry of the Spirit of Truth and the indwelling of the Adjuster, who is also impersonal (2:1.7). Divinity is defined as the unifying and coordinating quality of Deity, and, as it turns out, functional unity is the very essence of mind ministry. Divinity is comprehensible to mind as truth, beauty and goodness and experienced by personality as love, mercy and ministry (0:1.16). The Holy Spirit is that unifying principle of soul intellect which strives to coordinate the qualities of truth, beauty and goodness into a functional unity of personal experience for the purpose of soul growth and increasing divinity of character. Unity, like value, is both actual and potential; likewise, divinity is not always perfect despite its potential (0:1.18). Humans are imperfect, evolving towards perfection of divinity with ever increasing unity, taking potentials and actuating them by the power of personality choice. This process contributes to the evolution of the Supreme through power-personality synthesis. Mortal experience with the Holy Spirit, therefore, is registered in the Supreme Being and contributes to the evolution of divinity of the cosmos as well as the individual personality.

its reasonable then, that discovering exactly what deity is, is a process that happens as we become divine, or more unified as a result of interaction with the Holy Spirit and her ministry. Deity is to be discovered, not by reading about its properties and characteristics and manifestations. TUB can’t really describe deity, only show us the path to its discovery???

an additional thought: the evolution or growth of the Almighty – as related to non-personal deity??? There is a creative/unity aspect to this too but I don’t think that humans can be part of it. Just thinking..
BonitaParticipant
Nov 25, 2017, 8:41 PM

Gene wrote:

its reasonable then, that discovering exactly what deity is, is a process that happens as we become divine, or more unified as a result of interaction with the Holy Spirit and her ministry. Deity is to be discovered, not by reading about its properties and characteristics and manifestations. TUB can’t really describe deity, only show us the path to its discovery???

Yeah, basically, except Deity is not an “it”. Deity is always a person. Deity can be impersonal, as in the pre-personal Adjuster, but Deity is never nonpersonal (unless qualified, as the quote explained). Divinity and divine things can be nonpersonal though. So, we discover WHO Deity is first, then discover the what and how of the divinity of Deity. The easiest way to discover who Deity is, is to have a relationship with the Spirit of Truth, a spirit of Deity we can recognize as a person. He and the Holy Spirit come as a package deal.

Divinity is the character of a person of Deity. Divinity is how you describe and know a person of Deity’s nature. The Deity we seek is our Adjuster; divinity is his nature. Divinity attainment is the process of becoming more like the Adjuster. In other words, the process of perfecting, becoming more divine. We cannot become Deity, but we can become divine, or acquire divinity of nature. (And all that is done by the evolution of dominance or transfer of identity thing we always talk about.)

116:3.5 The creature bestowals of the Paradise orders of sonship enable these divine Sons to enrich their personalities by the acquisition of the actual nature of universe creatures, while such bestowals unfailingly reveal to the creatures themselves the Paradise path of divinity attainment. The Adjuster bestowals of the Universal Father enable him to draw the personalities of the volitional will creatures to himself. And throughout all these relationships in the finite universes the Conjoint Actor is the ever-present source of the mind ministry by virtue of which these activities take place.

Gene wrote:

an additional thought: the evolution or growth of the Almighty – as related to non-personal deity??? There is a creative/unity aspect to this too but I don’t think that humans can be part of it. Just thinking

This quote says we are part of it:

(1268.6) 116:1.1 The experience of every evolving creature personality is a phase of the experience of the Almighty Supreme. The intelligent subjugation of every physical segment of the superuniverses is a part of the growing control of the Almighty Supreme. The creative synthesis of power and personality is a part of the creative urge of the Supreme Mind and is the very essence of the evolutionary growth of unity in the Supreme Being.
GeneParticipant
Nov 25, 2017, 10:25 PM

Bonita wrote:

Gene wrote:

its reasonable then, that discovering exactly what deity is, is a process that happens as we become divine, or more unified as a result of interaction with the Holy Spirit and her ministry. Deity is to be discovered, not by reading about its properties and characteristics and manifestations. TUB can’t really describe deity, only show us the path to its discovery???

Yeah, basically, except Deity is not an “it”. Deity is always a person. Deity can be impersonal, as in the pre-personal Adjuster, but Deity is never nonpersonal (unless qualified, as the quote explained). Divinity and divine things can be nonpersonal though. So, we discover WHO Deity is first, then discover the what and how of the divinity of Deity. The easiest way to discover who Deity is, is to have a relationship with the Spirit of Truth, a spirit of Deity we can recognize as a person. He and the Holy Spirit come as a package deal. Divinity is the character of a person of Deity. Divinity is how you describe and know a person of Deity’s nature. The Deity we seek is our Adjuster; divinity is his nature. Divinity attainment is the process of becoming more like the Adjuster. In other words, the process of perfecting, becoming more divine. We cannot become Deity, but we can become divine, or acquire divinity of nature. (And all that is done by the evolution of dominance or transfer of identity thing we always talk about.)

116:3.5 The creature bestowals of the Paradise orders of sonship enable these divine Sons to enrich their personalities by the acquisition of the actual nature of universe creatures, while such bestowals unfailingly reveal to the creatures themselves the Paradise path of divinity attainment. The Adjuster bestowals of the Universal Father enable him to draw the personalities of the volitional will creatures to himself. And throughout all these relationships in the finite universes the Conjoint Actor is the ever-present source of the mind ministry by virtue of which these activities take place.

Gene wrote:

an additional thought: the evolution or growth of the Almighty – as related to non-personal deity??? There is a creative/unity aspect to this too but I don’t think that humans can be part of it. Just thinking

This quote says we are part of it:

(1268.6) 116:1.1 The experience of every evolving creature personality is a phase of the experience of the Almighty Supreme. The intelligent subjugation of every physical segment of the superuniverses is a part of the growing control of the Almighty Supreme. The creative synthesis of power and personality is a part of the creative urge of the Supreme Mind and is the very essence of the evolutionary growth of unity in the Supreme Being.

thank you for the quotes and perspective, it really helps.

One thing lingers: anyone would reasonably expect that a text like TUB would begin with God. But it does not, it begins with deity and makes a clear distinction. There is even a triple space after the deity part ends before part 2 “God” begins – I take it as a highlight but that’s probably a stretch – I guess it’s at the core of my dilemma though. Does it make any sense?? We probably are just meant to understand that God is deity and I’m reading more into this than should. After all, the Mightymessenger author is trying to convey simultaneous events that have no beginning as sequential for our benefit. Got to keep that in mind.

you mentioned the creative urge of the Supreme-it’s something that don’t come up that often as a topic.
XobehtParticipant
Nov 26, 2017, 9:01 AM
Here is the way I read it.

Deity is a classification of higher being, the highest grouping. The foreward is using the term deity to describe the Universal Father, co-equals and immediate subordinate “offspring” if you will, that fall into the category labeled “Deity.” Deity not only designates beings that have identity and personality but, attributes above and beyond basic identity and personality, the sources thereof–in fact, to include the ability to transcend….prepersonal, personal, superpersonal etc.

Divinity, on the other hand, is that quality or qualities specific only to deity as a possession. A characteristic of deity or the characteristics of deity that are unique only to that level of being.

Gene, you are perhaps reading more into it than is actually there. I read the foreward as if it is specific and exact, nothing more, nothing less.

Regarding other designations. The levels start from Superior, then Supreme, then Ultimate, then Absolute. The Absolute level designates an order that cannot be superceded hence the term Absolute. Any level below Absolute would indicate room for expansion, evolution, transcendence, supercedeability, and the like.

The first level of deity expression is the Supreme Being–a time/space evolving and unfolding deity manifestation to the finite creatures of the evolving universes. The Evolving God of the Seven Super Universes.

The second level of deity expression is God the Ultimate–an eventuating God that is a deity manifestation to absonite beings, those who possess superpersonal attributes…far later in our evolution when we arrive in Havona.

The third level is God the Absolute existing now as the Deity Absolute and at this level there is finality of deity qualities, all possibilities are exhausted, divinity is complete at this level.

I hope this helps clarify things a little.

I certainly hope I’m not adding to the confusion.

Paul
BonitaParticipant
Nov 26, 2017, 12:47 PM

Gene wrote:

One thing lingers: anyone would reasonably expect that a text like TUB would begin with God. But it does not, it begins with deity and makes a clear distinction.

God is complicated because God is more than Deity. The I AM is potential Total Deity, the Trinity is three actual Deities – persons. I think they want to introduce God as an actual person first. Although God is more than a person, the most important thing for us is to know him as a Father. And we get to know him as a Father through his Sons, who are also Deity. There’s a long, unbroken line of Deity from Paradise to us, and on into the future. I think this is the idea they want to established in our minds. The explanation for the non-deity part of God comes later.

0:3.22 With the appearance of coexistent personal Deity, the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit, the Father escaped, as a personality, from otherwise inevitable diffusion throughout the potential of Total Deity. Thenceforth it is only in Trinity association with his two Deity equals that the Father fills all Deity potential, while increasingly experiential Deity is being actualized on the divinity levels of Supremacy, Ultimacy, and Absoluteness.
ColeParticipant
Nov 26, 2017, 11:25 PM
Gene Wrote: …another-is God the absolute distinguishable from the diety absolute??

The Absolutes have always been difficult for me. The Book does not have a Paper dealing with this issue alone…for some reason.

After some study, I gained a working understanding of the Deity Absolute and the Unqualified Absolute. I still have trouble with the Universal Absolute.

But then I have read that the authors (or at least some)…..do too.
GeneParticipant
Nov 27, 2017, 12:48 AM

Xobeht wrote:

Gene, you are perhaps reading more into it than is actually there. I read the foreward as if it is specific and exact, nothing more, nothing less.

I approach the revelation in a similar way but the authors tell us that our language is very limited and they must attach multiple meanings to certain words and they tend to leave it up to us to sort it out so interpretations will vary

i get all of the attributes and manifestations and so forth of deity but have not yet got a clear understanding of exactly what deity is and I don’t think it will happen on this planet. I’m ok with that. I think I’m up to speed on being close enough to what the authors intended.

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