I AM ,There For I THINK

10 posts · 5 participants · started Sep 2, 2016, 8:56 PM

1. R

   RamblonParticipant
   Sep 2, 2016, 8:56 PM

   Anyone reading this can try something. Try to imagine. You cannot do because there is no such thing. Sure, I have been reading the Urantia Book. I have absolutely no doubt that I can find some supporting evidence. I think it was Bonita that seemed “clueless” when I mentioned the Jesus said. Before Abraham, I AM. Some people seem to think that a portion of the early Hebrew People did believe that a person could come back. We do not know all the text that has been edited before King James commissioned his “scholars” to orginize it into chapter and verse. We do know that “heritics” could be killed for disbelief. So could scientists.

   I come from a small mining town in western Pennsylvania. My family were involved a Church. I remember feeling sorry for those who did not know Jesus. As a small child, when we visited my grandparents and they did not answer the door. We went in. We knew that they were on their knees praying. They were some of the best people I will ever know. I like to think that Grandma is in “her” Heaven rocking in her chair. Why would I want to have changed that?

   My father clung to his faith and I watched him die slowly when I was 15. The only thing that might have saved him was to throw away what he was. A believer in Christianity. At 15, I was a believer in getting beer and chasing girls. Funny, we were so good in Sunday School. My Cousin would sometimes complain how hard it was to comb his hair because of the bumps on his head. In a mining town, 40 years ago, we probably had a least one fist fight after school.

   How I ended up as a seeker we will never know. I sure wasn’t looking for it.

   I have long ago decided that someday God will give a wise, rightious human being the power He will need to survive the attacks of the Churches that will not accept Him.

   I think, it is likely that the Urantia Book IS inspired. I do not think it is the only inspired written text. I do not think that you will evolve into a Church, or that is your intentiion. Please to not think of me as a person that is here to discredit any reader or writer of this Book. Someday, I may be It’s greatest promoter! It has already suprised me with the wisdom it contains.

   The biggest supprise is that in many ways, I have already read it. But in thousands of other writings. Is it not possible that some of the revelators have added some of their own personal meanings!  Can any book ever be written by man that hasn’t been changed according to their own perception?

    

2. R

   RamblonParticipant
   Sep 2, 2016, 9:05 PM

   I did look back at my topic. I wanted people to try to Imagine non existence.

   If I thought that it possible, there are some times in my life that I would have chosen it as an option. Actually, I know all of you through the perception of my eyes reading this text. If I don’t exist, neither to do you,

3. NN

   Nigel NunnParticipant
   Sep 3, 2016, 9:03 PM

   Ramblon wrote:

   “I think it was Bonita that seemed ‘clueless’ when I mentioned Jesus said: ‘Before Abraham, I AM.’ “

   I think Bonita (one of the finest Biblical scholars on the planet) may have something to say about that 

   Regarding Abraham, did you notice that (according to these papers) not only did Jesus make possible the human who was Abraham, but that technically, Jesus is the foster-father of the person who still is Abraham?

   Also, that in a more literal sense Jesus is the actual father of the Melchizedek teacher who helped to launch Abraham on his mission. It’s this extraordinary relationship — between Michael (Jesus), Melchizedek and Abraham — that might just be the key to helping the scholars of Islam get over their evolutionary hump.

   Nigel

4. A

   AnonymousInactive
   Sep 4, 2016, 12:22 AM

    

   (1797.2) 162:7.5 “Verily, verily, I say to you who believe the gospel that, if a man will keep this word of truth alive in his heart, he shall never taste death. And now just at my side a scribe says this statement proves that I have a devil, seeing that Abraham is dead, also the prophets. And he asks: ‘Are you so much greater than Abraham and the prophets that you dare to stand here and say that whoso keeps your word shall not taste death? Who do you claim to be that you dare to utter such blasphemies?’ And I say to all such that, if I glorify myself, my glory is as nothing. But it is the Father who shall glorify me, even the same Father whom you call God. But you have failed to know this your God and my Father, and I have come to bring you together; to show you how to become truly the sons of God. Though you know not the Father, I truly know him. Even Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and by faith he saw it and was glad.”

   (1797.3) 162:7.6 When the unbelieving Jews and the agents of the Sanhedrin who had gathered about by this time heard these words, they raised a tumult, shouting: “You are not fifty years of age, and yet you talk about seeing Abraham; you are a child of the devil!” Jesus was unable to continue the discourse. He only said as he departed, “Verily, verily, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” Many of the unbelievers rushed forth for stones to cast at him, and the agents of the Sanhedrin sought to place him under arrest, but the Master quickly made his way through the temple corridors and escaped to a secret meeting place near Bethany where Martha, Mary, and Lazarus awaited him.

   From KJV John 8:58

   57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

   58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

   59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

    

    

5. C

   chucksmith1982Participant
   Sep 4, 2016, 4:22 PM

   Most Christians interpret the quote as being that before Abraham Jesus existed as the son of the trinity.

6. A

   AnonymousInactive
   Sep 4, 2016, 4:59 PM

   chucksmith1982 wrote:

   Most Christians interpret the quote as being that before Abraham Jesus existed as the son of the trinity.

   Yes that’s true in some cases, but as some UB scholars might also indicate, is that Jesus’ thought adjuster had direct association with Abraham, therefore would have access to this knowledge as well, depending on Jesus’ interaction with this same thought adjuster.

   Also, it has been mentioned that Jesus was referred to as the Son of Man, where in some Biblical circles also indicated as being Adam, of the Old Testament.  Not to mention that in Enochian philosophy Enoch was considered as the future Jesus.  Then there are the Christian scholars who, from the Biblical text, have surmised that after Jesus’ death, He indwelled Saul/Paul, where Paul was a vessel, or that Jesus may have become Paul’s thought adjuster, allowing Him to continue His mission, having trinitized, or joined with Paul.

   There are many things which the UB does not directly state but implies through context and grammatical narration, based on references to wording in different subject sections which have similar wording.

7. R

   RamblonParticipant
   Sep 5, 2016, 9:47 PM

   I think that many humans may want to change religion. They do not like being given choices in regards to a life that they do not particularly take responsibility for creating. Like they say, “every one wants to go to Heaven, but no one wants to die”. Christians invented the “sinner’s prayer”. If you do not repent, invite Jesus into your heart, and become “born again”, you go to Hell.

   Acceptance of some other Belief might scare them more. They might fear that upon returning to the “immortal state” that they will be absorbed into a universal mind and lose their individuality.

   In his book “Illusions”, Richard Bach forewards his book with a story.

   There are creatures that live in a stream. It is their way to cling to the rocks. One day, a creature say’s “I’m letting go”

   For a while he was battered on the rock bottom and eventually swam back “upstream” and the clinging creatures deemed him a God.

8. M

   MaraParticipant
   Sep 6, 2016, 4:56 PM

   MidiChlorian wrote:

   From KJV John 8: 58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

   Yup.  Consider this:

   105:1:2  There are many elements of danger attendant upon the presentation to the mortal intellect of this idea of an infinite I AM since this concept is so remote from human experiential understanding as to involve serious distortion of meanings and misconception of values. Nevertheless, the philosophic concept of the I AM does afford finite beings some basis for an attempted approach to the partial comprehension of absolute origins and infinite destinies. But in all our attempts to elucidate the genesis and fruition of reality, let it be made clear that this concept of the I AM is, in all personality meanings and values, synonymous with the First Person of Deity, the Universal Father of all personalities. But this postulate of the I AM is not so clearly identifiable in undeified realms of universal reality.

   The First Person of Deity is the Universal Father of all personalities.  He is the I AM. . .

   0:3:23  The concept of the I AM is a philosophic concession which we make to the time-bound, space-fettered, finite mind of man, to the impossibility of creature comprehension of eternity existences — nonbeginning, nonending realities and relationships. To the time-space creature, all things must have a beginning save only the ONE UNCAUSED — the primeval cause of causes. Therefore do we conceptualize this philosophic value-level as the I AM, at the same time instructing all creatures that the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit are coeternal with the I AM; in other words, that there never was a time when the I AM was not the Father of the Son and, with him, of the Spirit.

   He mandated that you and I be perfect. The enlightened worlds all recognize and worship the Universal Father, the eternal maker and infinite upholder of all creation.

   1:0:3  From the Universal Father who inhabits eternity there has gone forth the supreme mandate, “Be you perfect, even as I am perfect.” In love and mercy the messengers of Paradise have carried this divine exhortation down through the ages and out through the universes, even to such lowly animal-origin creatures as the human races of Urantia.

   He is first.  Jesus is of Him.

   6:1:4  When a Son of the Eternal Son appeared on Urantia, those who fraternized with this divine being in human form alluded to him as “He who was from the beginning, whom we have heard, whom we have seen with our eyes, whom we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, even the Word of life.” And this bestowal Son came forth from the Father just as truly as did the Original Son, as is suggested in one of his earthly prayers: “And now, O my Father, glorify me with your own self, with the glory which I had with you before this world was.“
9. M

   MaraParticipant
   Sep 6, 2016, 8:57 PM

   Mara wrote:

   0:3:23  […] Therefore do we conceptualize this philosophic value-level as the I AM, at the same time instructing all creatures that the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit are coeternal with the I AM; in other words, that there never was a time when the I AM was not the Father of the Son and, with him, of the Spirit.

   The Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit are co-eternal with the I AM, the Father of all Fathers, aka The First Source and Center, The Universal Father, aka The Father of Universes, aka The First Father, aka God.

   In Him we live and move and have our being.  That any one of us can think a coherent thought is the result of the gift of mindedness from on high.

   2:1:2  “There is but one God, the infinite Father, who is also a faithful Creator.” “The divine Creator is also the Universal Disposer, the source and destiny of souls. He is the Supreme Soul, the Primal Mind, and the Unlimited Spirit of all creation.” “The great Controller makes no mistakes. He is resplendent in majesty and glory.” “The Creator God is wholly devoid of fear and enmity. He is immortal, eternal, self-existent, divine, and bountiful.” “How pure and beautiful, how deep and unfathomable is the supernal Ancestor of all things!” “The Infinite is most excellent in that he imparts himself to men. He is the beginning and the end, the Father of every good and perfect purpose.” “With God all things are possible; the eternal Creator is the cause of causes.”

   He makes it possible for us to think all kinds of nonsense.  He makes it possible for us to march to our own drummer.  He makes it possible for a person to think he/she is the center of all creation.  He makes it possible for us to reject Him.  He makes it possible for us to love divinely.

    .

   He makes it possible for a person to build all kinds of arguments in favor of a do-nothing approach to universe reality.   Recall Lucifer’s idea “. . . that immortality was inherent in the system personalities, that resurrection was natural and automatic, and that all beings would live eternally except for the arbitrary and unjust acts of the executioners of the Ancients of Days.”  (53:3:5)

    .

   He makes it possible to think.

    

10. R

    RamblonParticipant
    Sep 11, 2016, 2:25 PM

    Distortion will always be a factor in human explanations. They will use the assigned values of the culture that they were born into.  IMO, God has not problem with a “do nothing approach Any creature might use the assigned physical brain and the senses to conclude that they are the “Center of the Universe”. Harmless and no threat to the nature of reality.

    Einstein;

    “The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has it’s own reason for existing.”

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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