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How is this possible?

17 posts · 6 participants · started Feb 27, 2025, 10:59 AM

  1. I’m new to the Urantia book and so far I’ve found some of it impenetrable and some, particularly the details of the creation of our solar system, fascinating. I’m dotting around it for the moment in order not to get too bogged down in its intensity. I’m now going through the evolution of life on earth and I’ve hit on a problem. The creation of man. The story has Andon and Fonta giving birth to nineteen beings that were the first true early humans. Those children, we are told, went on to populate the earth. The problem is that it would have meant, aside from the mating of the twins together to create those nineteen children, that those children would have had to then breed with one another. Now, I don’t have to be a geneticist to know this would have been catastrophic for the race. Inbreeding of first cousins, as illustrated here is bad enough, illustrated here from a BBC article on the effects of inbreeding:

    “[An example] is the House of Habsburg, whose empire included Spain, Austria and Hungary; the family line ending with Charles II of Spain, who was born in 1661. [His] family tree at this point had become quite jumbled – his mother was his father’s niece and his grandmother was also his aunt. Charles suffered from numerous disabilities and congenital defects. He didn’t speak until he was four, couldn’t walk until he was eight and was barely able to chew due to his deformed jaw. His autopsy report is a staggering read. It states that after his death Charles had no blood, a heart the size of a peppercorn, corroded lungs, a head full of water, rotten and gangrenous intestines and had only a single testicle that was as black as coal”.

    These conditions are caused by recessive DNA sequences as a result of inbreeding, an that’s because cousins interbred in this case. What the Urantia book is telling us is that Andon and Fonta, twin siblings, together spawned an entire race and there were no genetic problems at all as a result of their inbreeding. Really? That scenario just isn’t scientifically possible.
    Later on in the story it is said that;

    “64:6.32 (726.4) 2. Stronger and better races are to be had from the interbreeding of diverse peoples when these different races are
    carriers of superior inheritance factors. And the Urantia races would have benefited by such an early amalgamation provided such a
    conjoint people could have been subsequently effectively upstepped by a thoroughgoing admixture with the superior Adamic stock.”

    That’s true, but there was no racial mixture to be had since every human being on the planet, we are told, was descended from the same two parents. The inconsistency here is staggering. It’s as if the author of this piece had forgotten what he had written at its start. Half a dozen generations or so after Andon and Fonta, the race would have been so closely inbred and genetically compromised that its babies would all have been seriously malformed, imbecillic or stillborn.

    Unless you’re willing to invoke magic as the way around the problem, humanity didn’t come into being like this.

  2. I’m new to the Urantia book and so far I’ve found some of it impenetrable and some, particularly the details of the creation of our solar system, fascinating. I’m dotting around it for the moment in order not to get too bogged down in its intensity. I’m now going through the evolution of life on earth and I’ve hit on a problem. The creation of man. The story has Andon and Fonta giving birth to nineteen beings that were the first true eary humans.

     

    Hi bb! Thanks for your how-is-this-possibe question. I think  there is more to this  story than genetics.

     

    63:1.4   The decision of Andon and Fonta to flee from the Primates tribes implies a quality of mind far above the baser intelligence which characterized so many of their later descendants who stooped to mate with their retarded cousins of the simian tribes. But their vague feeling of being something more than mere animals was due to the possession of personality and was augmented by the indwelling presence of the Thought Adjusters.

  3. I think there is more to this story than genetics.

    The decision of Andon and Fonta to flee from the Primates tribes implies a quality of mind far above the baser intelligence which characterized so many of their later descendants who stooped to mate with their retarded cousins of the simian tribes.

    On the contrary, genetics is at the heart of this issue. The fact that Andon and Fonta may have thought of themselves as something more than animals doesn’t change the fact that they would have had to mate with each other and their offspring would have had to do the same because there was, we are told, no alternative. Whichever way you look at it therefore, that would have been an unfolding genetic disaster which renders this entire tale of the foundation of the human race a fiction.

    As a postscript, it is interesting to note that the Urantia book was created in 1934, at least twenty years before science understood anything meaningful about genetics. This casts a whole new light on the authorship of the story, or at least, this part of it. A celestial being wouldn’t have made the mistake of saying that only two people could be the progenitors of the entire human species. He would have known better.

  4. Hello buntobox. I have wondered about the same concern you raise here, but have never had facts to rebut the story. Yes, we know the issues with inbreeding you highlight here. What is left for me is to wonder if there are other unknown factors with Andon and Fonta not revealed, say, perhaps in their parents’ gene line. There is a “hole” in this story somewhere. And we must consider the Life Carriers’ role and plans, not fully revealed either. Mystery abounds!

  5. As a postscript, it is interesting to note that the Urantia book was created in 1934, at least twenty years before science understood anything meaningful about genetics. This casts a whole new light on the authorship of the story, or at least, this part of it. A celestial being wouldn’t have made the mistake of saying that only two people could be the progenitors of the entire human species. He would have known better.

    I appreciate your remarks, especially your postscript. My thinking leans towards Marks comments.

    Yes, we know the issues with inbreeding you highlight here. What is left for me is to wonder if there are other unknown factors with Andon and Fonta not revealed, say, perhaps in their parents’ gene line. There is a “hole” in this story somewhere. And we must consider the Life Carriers’ role and plans, not fully revealed either. Mystery abounds!

    Whether inbreeding problems did occur within the early subsequent generations of their progeny, we don’t know. But there are clues. These paragraphs might help.

    82:5.1 [Part III]
    Very early the savage observed that race mixture improved the quality of the offspring. It was not that inbreeding was always bad, but that outbreeding was always comparatively better; therefore the mores tended to crystallize in restriction of sex relations among near relatives. It was recognized that outbreeding greatly increased the selective opportunity for evolutionary variation and advancement. The outbred individuals were more versatile and had greater ability to survive in a hostile world; the inbreeders, together with their mores, gradually disappeared. This was all a slow development; the savage did not consciously reason about such problems. But the later and advancing peoples did, and they also made the observation that general weakness sometimes resulted from excessive inbreeding.
    82:5.2 [Part III]
    While the inbreeding of good stock sometimes resulted in the upbuilding of strong tribes, the spectacular cases of the bad results of the inbreeding of hereditary defectives more forcibly impressed the mind of man, with the result that the advancing mores increasingly formulated taboos against all marriages among near relatives.
    My comment, “I think  there is more to this  story than genetics”, refers in part to the backstories about life implantation and developments which occurred over eons of time to make possible the appearance of the twins. The twins had something more in their nature than their simian cousins. The evolution of life came to fruition, so to speak, in the next and most vital step when the twins were born. They were different from the other members of their family.  62:5.0  When they were eleven years old, Urantia was registered as an inhabited  planet. 63:0.1  And so on.
    .
    Note: A number of years ago one of the members of our study group demonstrated the timeline of the  evolution of life by carrying a length of twine from one end of a long block down to the other end of the block. He pointed out that the existence of the human race occupied mere inches at the nearest end of the twine.
  6. Hi Everyone. This is an interesting discussion. I just want to point out that we mustn’t forget Adam and Eve. Inbreeding was the only way for them to create the Violet race, just as Andon and Fonta needed to create the Andonic race. As Myra pointed out in the quote from 82.5.2, inbreeding is fine among the stronger races. Their genetics are good enough to produce several generations to get things going. I’m sure the Lif Carriers ensured this in their original design. Of course, after many generations, the more diverse the genetic pool became. Adam and Eve and their descendants were supposed to create  a million people before going out to the wider world to mix with the other tribes. This is how they would have uplifted the biology of humans and we would have been better equipped to be much more attuned and receptive to spiritual guidance. There are no contradictions here.

    From Sydney, Australia

  7. I just want to point out that we mustn’t forget Adam and Eve.
    Yes, and thank you for pointing the discussion to that pair. From the aboriginal twins to Adam and Eve, 37,948 years ago, a tremendous unfolding of the human race occurred. All of that story is in the book and anyone can read it. In my opinion it is not a straight line genetic story. I have no idea whether or not anyone agrees with me. Until you asked the question buntobox, I did not previously think much about it. I am grateful to you for drawing attention to this interesting subject.
  8. Kathleen wrote:

    There are no contradictions here.

    I’m afraid there are…and there a quite a few of them based on what I’ve read so far.
    To start with this issue, if “Adam and Eve” turned up 37,948 years ago, that means the only genetic stock on the planet, courtesy of Andon and Fonta, had been inbreeding with one another for 955,471 years. That’s a straightforward impossibility. The race could not possibly have survived inbreeding over even a tiny fraction of that length of time. The book says, and you’ve quoted it: “It was not that inbreeding was always bad”. Yes it is. Ask any geneticist.

    On other fronts, the contradictions with known science are stark. The most obvious one being the mistake over the distance to the Andromeda galaxy. Aside from the fact that it’s described as a nebula rather than a galaxy (and this is no mere issue of semantics; there are fundamental and huge differences between the two forms) the book says it’s a million light years away. It’s actually 2.8 million light years away. Now I’ve read someone’s defence of the Urantia book’s error here by saying that human science has itself made an error in the calculation of lightspeed and hence, Andromeda’s distance from us. The reasoning is that the Urantia book says space isn’t empty and this is used to account for the slowing down of lightspeed which would make the book correct in its assertion. It is true that the speed of light is slowed when it passes through a transparent medium such as water, glass or perspex and this slowing down manifests in the splitting of white light into the seven colours of the visible spectrum. The problem is that this slowing down is measured in miniscule fractions of one percent and cannot be used as a reasoning for the Urantia book’s mistake. For that to be true the speed of light would have to be dropped by 35.7% and although it may be true that space is not empty, it’s not a solid either and it would need to be a pretty dense one for lightspeed to be retarded by that much.

    Next comes the part about the behaviour of planets that orbit close to a sun.
    The book cites the idea that the axial spin of planets close to a sun will gradually reduce until one of their sides is permanently facing it. This phenomenon is known as “tidal locking” and Mercury is given as the example. When the book was written, that was indeed what scientists thought happened but in the 1960s, radio astronomers discovered Mercury’s axial spin is just like all the other planets in our solar system and it’s actually faster than all of them so its whole surface is indeed exposed to the sun. Its axial spin is not slowing at all and so it will never have just one side facing the sun.

    The book’s knowledge of quantum mechanics is also materially flawed. It talks of a subatomic particle called an “ultimaton” which, we are told, makes up a one hundredth part of an electron. This particle could easily be what is known as a quark in modern physics, but the problem here is that an electron cannot be composed of quarks because they are affected by the strong nuclear force whereas an electron is not. If you were to combine three quarks (not even close to one hundred) so that they have the same negative charge as an electron, what you have is a particle called a “delta minus”. Physicists know that this is not the same thing as an electron because it is 2000 times more massive than an electron, and it rapidly decays into a pion and a neutron whereas an electron is stable.

    Then there is the formation of the solar system itself which the book describes in great detail. The issue here is that this description is almost identical to another early twentieth century idea, the Chamberlin-Moulton planetesimal hypothesis. This was thrown out in the 1940s because physicists discovered the theory had some major flaws in it. The currently held view of the solar system’s beginnings is based on a theory known as the “nebular hypothesis”.

    I have saved the best till last, however: the poisonous doctrine of eugenics.
    The book says:

    “From a world standpoint, overpopulation has never been a serious problem in the past, but if war is lessened and science increasingly controls human diseases, it may become a serious problem in the near future. At such a time the great test of the wisdom of world leadership will present itself. Will Urantia rulers have the insight and courage to foster the multiplication of the average or stabilized human being instead of the extremes of the supernormal and the enormously increasing groups of the subnormal? The normal man should be fostered; he is the backbone of civilization and the source of the mutant geniuses of the race. The subnormal man should be kept under society’s control; no more
    should be produced than are required to administer the lower levels of industry, those tasks requiring intelligence above the animal level but making such low-grade demands as to prove veritable slavery and bondage for the higher types of mankind”.

    In Paper 72 which refers to “Government on a Neighboring Planet”, the book states that these, apparently more advanced humans than we, have:

    “Recently…gone so far as to attempt the prevention of crime by sentencing those who are believed to be potential murderers and major criminals to life service in the
    detention colonies. If such convicts subsequently demonstrate that they have become more normal, they may be either paroled or pardoned. The homicide rate on this continent is only one per cent of that among the other nations”.

    So that’s alright then. The ends do after all justify the means. The idea that you can start to imprison people on the basis that they “might” commit a crime is monstrous! It’s a dictator’s fantasy and I don’t believe for a split second that it could or would ever be dispassionately administered. It’s a human rights catastrophe waiting to happen. Then the notion that we have to limit the breeding of “inferiors” and foster that of “the multiplication of the average or stabilized human being” is immediately contingent on the very real problem of who decides who is inferior or subnormal. The state? The population, with all its prejudices, bigotries and hatreds? This is the game the Third Reich played and we went to war with that vile regime to bring it down at gigantic human cost. Is the Urantia book saying they were actually correct in their beliefs? When Hitler talked of mentally disabled and therefore economically inactive people as “useless eaters”, was he right? Of course he wasn’t! Here the book is guilty of a spectacular devaluing of human life if it doesn’t match up to some abstract ideal. I have been reading spiritual philsophy for nearly fifty years and if there is one thing that has been communicated pretty forcibly and consistently it is this:

    “Never presume to know or judge the motives of a soul. Any perceived disadvantages it has, either physical or mental, have been chosen as a method of learning by that soul, for its own reasons and you cannot know what those reasons are”.

    How then is anyone, no matter how spiritually evolved or socially responsible they feel themselves to be, qualified to condemn anyone on the basis that they appear “subnormal”. And what is “subnormal anyway? Would you include Steven Hawking in that assessment? He was massively physically disabled certainly, but at the same time one of the best minds in physics for the last hundred years. I have a nephew who is severely autistic and can barely communicate but he’s a mathematical genius. Subnormal? Only if you use the narrowest and most ignorant of definitions. The idea therefore that some individuals have no value because they do not tick the boxes on someone’s “What It Means To Be An Advantageous Member Of The Species” form is heinous and disgusting and it is the one thing, if nothing else I have noted here, that in my view renders the Urantia Book the product of the those human beings, not celestials, who wrote it using the values and knowledge of their time, in the early twentieth century.
    To believe in it literally and as a work of divine provenance therefore, regardless of its many scientific flaws and appalling social assessments, is just another example of blind fundamentalism.

     

     

  9. Just to look at the genetic question…there are many, many endangered species that have recovered nicely from just a few survivors…and have done so in a short period of time, not a million years.

    The California Condor sank to a low of 14 individuals in 1987 but as of 2021 there were some 500.  Their genetic health is quite good.  Yes, genetic bottlenecks are not optimal for a species.  But the Life Carriers have designed into all life an incredible vivaciousness.

    Also, one must not preclude the active participation of the Holy Spirit in not only giving life, but also sustaining and healing life (assuming one believes in divine action in the life initiation, evolution, healing, and sustaining process).

    Regarding the Mercury question….there has been some good response to this.  I will have to try to find it.

    Regardless, the UB is not perfect.  Anything touched by human hands will have error.  The Bible is replete with such.  It’s all a matter of degree.

  10. Just to look at the genetic question….

    I’m going to stick with the original question. Thanks Cole. It’s a long and complicated story.

    With Andon and Fonta we got the progenitors of the human race. Next in line was the Sangik race comprised of two branches, primary and secondary, born in one family from the same parents who were of  the Andonic aboriginal human stock. And this was the origin of the colored races.  61:7.4  The sudden appearance of the colored races occurred 500,000 years after the twins. This event was the first genetic mutation in the course of human evolution.  So, at this significant event in the story, I ask how did this happen?

    81:4.4  […] In the early development of the Urantia races there were originally five distinct types of skeletal structure:

    1. Andonic, Urantia aborigines.

    2. Primary Sangik, red, yellow, and blue.

    3. Secondary Sangik, orange, green, and indigo.

    4. Nodites, descendants of the Dalamatians.

    5. Adamites, the violet race.

    We can look into the Nodites and  Adamites another time. But what is the explanation of six colored races born as brothers and sisters into the same family?

    While I admit not to have proof, I am suggesting that more than genetics occurred at this astonishing historical juncture.

     

  11. Well, I found something!

    65:4.7 [Part III]
    There were many unique features of the Urantia life experiment, but the two outstanding episodes were the appearance of the Andonic race prior to the evolution of the six colored peoples and the later simultaneous appearance of the Sangik mutants in a single family. Urantia is the first world in Satania where the six colored races sprang from the same human family. They ordinarily arise in diversified strains from independent mutations within the prehuman animal stock and usually appear on earth one at a time and successively over long periods of time, beginning with the red man and passing on down through the colors to indigo.
    So the colored races ordinarily “. . . arise in diversified strains from independent mutations within the prehuman animal stock . . ..”  Ah-ha!  This informs me that these mutations were priorly built into the genetic code within prehumans.
    .
    Mysteries do indeed abound!
  12. Hi buntobox,

    Regarding Mercury and Andromeda, here are a few thoughts:

    Re: Mercury

    “The planets nearest the sun were the first to have their revolutions slowed down by tidal friction. Such gravitational influences also contribute to the stabilization of planetary orbits while acting as a brake on the rate of planetary-axial revolution, causing a planet to revolve ever slower until axial revolution ceases, leaving one hemisphere of the planet always turned toward the sun or larger body, as is illustrated by the planet Mercury and by the moon, which always turns the same face toward Urantia.” 57:6.2 (657.5)

    As a native English speaker, I understand this to be saying:

    “The phenomenon of tidal friction is illustrated by Mercury (whose rate of rotation was slowed by tidal friction until it became locked in a 3:2 tidal resonance). However, it is beautifully demonstrated by the moon, which always turns the same face toward Urantia.”

    In other words, while tidal friction is illustrated by Mercury, it is demonstrated by the moon.

    Re: Andromeda, from 15:4.7,

    “This far-distant nebula is visible to the naked eye, and when you view it, pause to consider that the light you behold left those distant suns almost one million years ago.” 15:4.7 (170.1),

    buntobox, pause to consider what they were asking us to “pause to consider”:

    Was it a distance, or a discovery?

    Were they asking us to pause to consider Hubble’s erroneous estimate, or the most startling fact that astronomers had ever (and so recently) discovered?

    Here, it may be worth recalling their statement from 101:4.2, that…

    “within a few short years many of our statements regarding the physical sciences will stand in need of revision” (101:4.2)

    In both the above cases, it’s not so much their words that now stand in need of revision, but rather, the way we read those words.

    Thanks for your contributions!
    Nigel

  13. Great post Nigel.

    Mark previously mentioned the Life Carriers. I’d like to add some paragraphs about them to help readers grasp the big picture of life on Urantia. They are the ones who are entrusted with establishing physical life on the evolving worlds. (See Paper 36 | Urantia Association ).

    “[. . .] The original life plasm of an evolutionary world must contain the full potential for all future developmental variations and for all subsequent evolutionary changes and modifications. The provision for such far-reaching projects of life metamorphosis may require the appearance of many apparently useless forms of animal and vegetable life. Such by-products of planetary evolution, foreseen or unforeseen, appear upon the stage of action only to disappear, but in and through all this long process there runs the thread of the wise and intelligent formulations of the original designers of the planetary life plan and species scheme. The manifold by-products of biologic evolution are all essential to the final and full function of the higher intelligent forms of life, notwithstanding that great outward disharmony may prevail from time to time in the long upward struggle of the higher creatures to effect the mastery of the lower forms of life, many of which are sometimes so antagonistic to the peace and comfort of the evolving will creatures.” 36:2.17

     

    At the same time “[t]he capacity of material creatures to effect spirit response is entirely dependent on the associated mind endowment, which, in turn, has directionized the course of the biologic evolution of these same mortal creatures.” 36:2.17   Look at what the statement says about mind endowment, as such endowment effects the course of biologic evolution (planetarily) and spirit response (individually).

     

    “Mind such as man comprehends is an endowment of the seven adjutant mind-spirits superimposed on the nonteachable or mechanical levels of mind by the agencies of the Infinite Spirit. The life patterns are variously responsive to these adjutants and to the different spirit ministries operating throughout the universes of time and space.”36:2.18

     

    “The corps of Life Carriers commissioned to plant life upon a new world usually consists of one hundred senior carriers, one hundred assistants, and one thousand custodians. The Life Carriers often carry actual life plasm to a new world, but not always. They sometimes organize the life patterns after arriving on the planet of assignment in accordance with formulas previously approved for a new adventure in life establishment. Such was the origin of the planetary life of Urantia.” 36:3.2

     

    “The vital spark — the mystery of life — is bestowed through the Life Carriers, not by them. They do indeed supervise such transactions, they formulate the life plasm itself, but it is the Universe Mother Spirit who supplies the essential factor of the living plasm. From the Creative Daughter of the Infinite Spirit comes that energy spark which enlivens the body and presages the mind.” 36:3.4

     

    “ When the Life Carriers operating on a new world have once succeeded in producing a being with will, with the power of moral decision and spiritual choice, then and there their work terminates — they are through; they may manipulate the evolving life no further. From this point forward the evolution of living things must proceed in accordance with the endowment of the inherent nature and tendencies which have already been imparted to, and established in, the planetary life formulas and patterns. The Life Carriers are not permitted to experiment or to interfere with will; they are not allowed to dominate or arbitrarily influence moral creatures.” 36:3.8

     

    Lest I not overload readers with too much text, I conclude this post with a word or two about the adjutant mind-spirits previously mentioned.

     

    “It is the presence of the seven adjutant mind-spirits on the primitive worlds that conditions the course of organic evolution; that explains why evolution is purposeful and not accidental. These adjutants represent that function of the mind ministry of the Infinite Spirit which is extended to the lower orders of intelligent life through the operations of a local universe Mother Spirit. The adjutants are the children of the Universe Mother Spirit and constitute her personal ministry to the material minds of the realms. Wherever and whenever such mind is manifest, these spirits are variously functioning.” 36:5.1

  14. Cole wrote:

    Just to look at the genetic question…there are many, many endangered species that have recovered nicely from just a few survivors…and have done so in a short period of time, not a million years.

    Yes, and they have all done so from a diverse genetic base. That is not the same as the Andon & Fonta story where the genetic base is said to have come solely from two blood-related individuals.

  15. It is difficult to prove everything in The Urantia Book is true, at least maybe the science. I hope we all can accept the book as an update resource even though the source is last century. We’d be wise not “throw the baby out with the bathwater.”  The whole book has great value for all Urantia.

    The cosmic details are intriguing for curious souls who want to know “what’s next?” Jesus’ details are inspiring for personal reflection and desires for personal growth. More could be said.

     

  16. Hi buntobox,

    With regard to your concern about sibling mating, as I understand it, the expression of a recessive genetic glitch can only happen when both siblings inherit (or develop) the same recessive allele. If this was not the case with Andon and Fonta, then would such a glitch in their children even be possible?

    just a thought,
    Nigel

  17. [. . .] When the Life Carriers operating on a new world have once succeeded in producing a being with will, with the power of moral decision and spiritual choice, then and there their work terminates — they are through; they may manipulate the evolving life no further. From this point forward the evolution of living things must proceed in accordance with the endowment of the inherent nature and tendencies which have already been imparted to, and established in, the planetary life formulas and patterns. [. . . .] 36:3.8

    I find it fascinating that living things are endowed from the get-go with all planetary life formulas and patterns necessary for progressive evolution. And when Urantia was registered as an inhabited planet, the Life Carriers stopped manipulating evolving life.  It staggers my mind that the seeds of all future planetary evolution are in readiness to unfold and even now are unfolding.

     

    Andon and Fonta were the  first two human beings a million years ago. They did not pop out of a hat. All antecedent work of the  Life Carriers culminated in the appearance of them, and they were different from their immediate family.

     

    I am dwelling on references to the history of the origin of life on our world, because I think it is important to comprehend what led up to the appearance of the twins.  Anyway, that’s how my mind works. I want to go back to see how we got to this place, so to speak. It seems reasonable to me to investigate the backstory. Do you think humans could make up this story?

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