The Urantia Book contains information about human genesis and the authors caution us to be careful. Too rapid changes would be disastrous.
Note this TED talk about editing DNA.
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Edit our DNA?
25 posts · 7 participants · started Oct 29, 2015, 5:49 PM
Hi Mark! Thanks for posting this….really most interesting! We now have the ability to accelerate our own evolution with exciting prospects for a potentially better future for all. But do we have the wisdom to do it humanely, fairly, justly, and compassionately?
These six evolutionary races are destined to be blended and exalted by amalgamation with the progeny of the Adamic uplifters. But before these peoples are blended, the inferior and unfit are largely eliminated. The Planetary Prince and the Material Son, with other suitable planetary authorities, pass upon the fitness of the reproducing strains. The difficulty of executing such a radical program on Urantia consists in the absence of competent judges to pass upon the biologic fitness or unfitness of the individuals of your world races. Notwithstanding this obstacle, it seems that you ought to be able to agree upon the biologic disfellowshiping of your more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks. P.585:4
Julian,
I have a strong “gut” feeling the UB authors are correct in wanting us to “clean” humanity, although they don’t quite say so directly. That’s a strong inference, but one can see there are folks who are backward. They do say the problem is largely ours to solve. The danger is that we err badly somewhere.
A prime confounding factor is our concept of rights. We have “God-given” rights, legal rights, et al. Who decides what persons are degenerates without violating someone’s right to live or procreate? A passionate discussion is likely and human beings would easily stray off topic to include all manner of rights and related concerns. Who has the bravery to step up and begin the conversation?
I have long felt, at least for the USA, we will need a new discussion and eventual re-definition of rights. I believe the TUB defines rights as privileges granted by higher authority. Until we have a more spiritually oriented populace, this discussion would be lost to fights of profound magnitude. Note the lady warns us to be wise.
I have no comment about the science here; not qualified to comment.
I think we need to recognize a new human right, an infant’s right to a good set of genes. Shouldn’t this be fundamental to a healthy society? How can we continue to reproduce the 3500 genetic diseases that we now have in the human gene pool, and still call ourselves compassionate? Every child is, or should be, entitled to a disease free set of genes, especially now that we know how to do this.
But there is one thing we should never do, use force. Coercion would be the worst possible method to achieve this good end, education the best. Slow and steady is the way, always with love and respect for the individual, with a goal of the greatest good for the greatest number. A delicate but attainable balance, no?
Richard E Warren
Yes, Rick. Agree. We can do so and still love like the Master. He is a very patient person.
I have no comment about the science. . . .
But science is going forward to “control” human diseases. With the lessening of war and the increase of disease control, the revealors say overpopulation may become a serious problem “in the near future”. Near future? “Will Urantia rulers have the insight and courage to foster the multiplication of the average or stabilized human being instead of the extremes of the supernormal and the enormously increasing groups of the subnormal?”
68:6:11 From a world standpoint, overpopulation has never been a serious problem in the past, but if war is lessened and science increasingly controls human diseases, it may become a serious problem in the near future. At such a time the great test of the wisdom of world leadership will present itself. Will Urantia rulers have the insight and courage to foster the multiplication of the average or stabilized human being instead of the extremes of the supernormal and the enormously increasing groups of the subnormal? The normal man should be fostered; he is the backbone of civilization and the source of the mutant geniuses of the race. The subnormal man should be kept under society’s control; no more should be produced than are required to administer the lower levels of industry, those tasks requiring intelligence above the animal level but making such low-grade demands as to prove veritable slavery and bondage for the higher types of mankind..The average and the normal should be fostered. Julian reminds us:.Notwithstanding this obstacle, it seems that you ought to be able to agree upon the biologic disfellowshiping of your more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks. P.585:4.How do we “disfellowship” our more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks?Indeed, Mara. This part of TUB really caught my attention many years ago and I still have little clue how mankind must approach this developing issue. Never fear, faith and the Father’s timing will reveal the answers. That’s about all I can contribute.
China’s recent decision to allow two babies is a related factor in the “how to” dilemma question. But, the allowance of some subnormals for “veritable slavery and bondage” will be an obstacle for discussion. All this is part of the path to Light and Life!
If you are going to snag just one cut and paste job from TUB, should it not be this one so that new readers do not think that any HUMAN has a sane clue on how to tinker with DNA strands, nanoautonutbot implants in the brain, toxic chemical invasions, and radioactivity and magnets to alter the NORMAL responses of the first five mind adjutants…?
118:9.2 (1303.3) Mechanisms produced by higher minds function to liberate their creative sources but to some degree unvaryingly limit the action of all subordinate intelligences. To the creatures of the universes this limitation becomes apparent as the mechanism of the universes. Man does not have unfettered free will; there are limits to his range of choice, but within the radius of this choice his will is relatively sovereign.
118:9.3 (1303.4) The life mechanism of the mortal personality, the human body, is the product of supermortal creative design; therefore it can never be perfectly controlled by man himself. Only when ascending man, in liaison with the fused Adjuster, self-creates the mechanism for personality expression, will he achieve perfected control thereof.
118:9.4 (1303.5) The grand universe is mechanism as well as organism, mechanical and living — a living mechanism activated by a Supreme Mind, co-ordinating with a Supreme Spirit, and finding expression on maximum levels of power and personality unification as the Supreme Being. But to deny the mechanism of the finite creation is to deny fact and to disregard reality.
118:9.5 (1303.6) Mechanisms are the products of mind, creative mind acting on and in cosmic potentials. Mechanisms are the fixed crystallizations of Creator thought, and they ever function true to the volitional concept that gave them origin. But the purposiveness of any mechanism is in its origin, not in its function.”
Van was probably also not illiterate, so what happened to any SOPs he had written down….? Yup, more questions than answers in the NUMEROUS places that address “dna” challenges left to 21st century humans…
Page 760 – “Notwithstanding the terrible setback of rebellion there were many good strains of biologic promise on earth. Under the supervision of the Melchizedek receivers, Van and Amadon continued the work of fostering the natural evolution of the human race, carrying forward the physical evolution of man until ir reached the culminating attainment which warranted the dispatch of a Material Son and Daughter to Urantia.”
Let’s make TUB/DNA learning fun, for once. Bring out the “positive”. Nothing easier than playing a game where everyone actually follows the same rules for fairness’s sake, right?
So everyone contribute one more “dna” cut and paste quote – maybe that one about the conference Adam had with Caligastia to try and put their genius gene heads together to unravel the genetic mess…or the one about how the Life Carriers CLEARLY state why mechanical intervention by anyone, much less the creature, is not a good idea since their design will stand the test of time…or we could go “social” and quote where even the violet blood admixed with defaulted blood ended up producing a degenerate strain using cannibalism to stay in “power”…?
Nope, one singular quote just will not due, especially for new readers to grasp the big picture, and especially not for vast majority of humanity who has no clue TUB exists – which fact alone makes it so unfair, and even more dangerous, if the “dna” tinkering course is going to be set by the 3 people commenting on the “dna” investment excitement that one plutocrat “believes” in here on this thread…
What are your qualifications for “supermortal” tinkering?
- Sabinatu wrote: …many good strains of biologic promise on earth.Hi Sab I wonder if you or any others here, are considering that Urantia has one additional unplanned racial group in its DNA mix…….the Nodites……….the 8th race?The line of inheritance which, among other benefits, in the early days of the second garden, furnished one half of the ancestry for the secondary order of midway creatures.The physical members of the Prince’s staff had been constituted sex creatures for the purpose of participating in the plan of procreating offspring embodying the combined qualities of their special order united with those of the selected stock of the Andon tribes, and all of this was in anticipation of the subsequent appearance of Adam.… [Paper 77:2.2, page 856.5]Now comes an interesting bit about what the Life Carriers had originally planned………….an aristocracy of benign leadership:…The Life Carriers had planned a new type of mortal embracing the union of the conjoint offspring of the Prince’s staff with the first-generation offspring of Adam and Eve. They had thus projected a plan envisioning a new order of planetary creatures whom they hoped would become the teacher-rulers of human society. Such beings were designed for social sovereignty, not civil sovereignty. But since this project almost completely miscarried, we shall never know what an aristocracy of benign leadership and matchless culture Urantia was thus deprived of. For when the corporeal staff later reproduced, it was subsequent to the rebellion and after they had been deprived of their connection with the life currents of the system. [Paper77:2.2, page 856.5]The resultant Nodite race was a definite upstepping to the human gene pool, unexpected excellence, physically, intellectually and spiritually.
Since the one hundred corporeal members of the Prince’s staff carried germ plasm of the Andonic human strains, it would naturally be expected that, if they engaged in sexual reproduction, their progeny would altogether resemble the offspring of other Andonite parents. But when the sixty rebels of the staff, the followers of Nod, actually engaged in sexual reproduction, their children proved to be far superior in almost every way to both the Andonite and the Sangik peoples. This unexpected excellence characterized not only physical and intellectual qualities but also spiritual capacities. [Paper 77:2.4, page 857.1]
The inheritance factors were due to changes in the life plasm due to the presence in the bodies of the staff members of the powerful life-maintenance circuits of the Satania system which caused chromosomes of the specialized Urantia pattern to reorganize.
These mutant traits appearing in the first Nodite generation resulted from certain changes which had been wrought in the configuration and in the chemical constituents of the inheritance factors of the Andonic germ plasm. These changes were caused by the presence in the bodies of the staff members of the powerful life-maintenance circuits of the Satania system. These life circuits caused the chromosomes of the specialized Urantia pattern to reorganize more after the patterns of the standardized Satania specialization of the ordained Nebadon life manifestation. The technique of this germ plasm metamorphosis by the action of the system life currents is not unlike those procedures whereby Urantia scientists modify the germ plasm of plants and animals by the use of X rays. [Paper 77:2.5, page 857.2]
Sab, I know we do not have in place yet, respected leaders who are sufficiently wise to administer programs which foster conservation of the higher human strains while discouraging the proliferation of the lower strains, however, I’m thinking, we should take note of the lessons from Paper 72 “Government on a Neighboring Planet.”
I am asking everyone “human’, all races, the same question – “What are your qualifications for “supermortal” tinkering?
Adam and Eve’s resume, in part:
74:1.2 (828.3) “At the time Adam was chosen to come to Urantia, he was employed, with his mate, in the trial-and-testing physical laboratories of Jerusem. For more than fifteen thousand years they had been directors of the division of experimental energy as applied to the modification of living forms. Long before this they had been teachers in the citizenship schools for new arrivals on Jerusem. And all this should be borne in mind in connection with the narration of their subsequent conduct on Urantia.”
And this “truth” zinged over everyone’s head, proving much more “education” is needed, even the Vorondadek Son who authored The Life Carriers Paper 36 noted that there is something about the life spark that “are not altogether clear to us”:
36:6.7 (404.5) “There are some things connected with the elaboration of life on the evolutionary planets which are not altogether clear to us. We fully comprehend the physical organization of the electrochemical formulas of the Life Carriers, but we do not wholly understand the nature and source of thelife-activation spark. We know that life flows from the Father through the Son and by the Spirit. It is more than possible that the Master Spirits are the sevenfold channel of the river of life which is poured out upon all creation. But we do not comprehend the technique whereby the supervising Master Spirit participates in the initial episode of life bestowal on a new planet. The Ancients of Days, we are confident, also have some part in this inauguration of life on a new world, but we are wholly ignorant of the nature thereof. We do know that the Universe Mother Spirit actually vitalizes the lifeless patterns and imparts to such activated plasm the prerogatives of organismal reproduction. We observe that these three are the levels of God the Sevenfold, sometimes designated as the Supreme Creators of time and space; but otherwise we know little more than Urantia mortals — simply that concept is inherent in the Father, expression in the Son, and life realization in the Spirit.”
You cannot possibly suggest that “Nodites” know more than Life Carriers, Vorondadek Sons, and Material Sons and Daughters combined when it comes to mechanistic tinkering with “supermortal Design”?! Yikes. That is cosmically insane hubris, imo.
Even humble little paragraphs like this one never cleared up the raging debates on “when life begins?’ because the creature still did not understand the info provided well enough to ask the right question:
36:6.2 (403.7) “Things material may enjoy an independent existence, but life springs only from life. Mind can be derived only from pre-existent mind. Spirit takes origin only from spirit ancestors. The creature may produce the forms of life, but only a creator personality or a creative force can supply the activating living spark.”
Like I said before, how about some NEW cut and paste jobs from TUB about the life-style choices the Nodites made over time that wiped out all that “superiority” – like this one about “modern warfare”:
70:2.9 (785.14) War has had a certain evolutionary and selective value, but like slavery, it must sometime be abandoned as civilization slowly advances. Olden wars promoted travel and cultural intercourse; these ends are now better served by modern methods of transport and communication. Olden wars strengthened nations, but modern struggles disrupt civilized culture. Ancient warfare resulted in the decimation of inferior peoples; the net result of modern conflict is the selective destruction of the best human stocks. Early wars promoted organization and efficiency, but these have now become the aims of modern industry. During past ages war was a social ferment which pushed civilization forward; this result is now better attained by ambition and invention. Ancient warfare supported the concept of a God of battles, but modern man has been told that God is love. War has served many valuable purposes in the past, it has been an indispensable scaffolding in the building of civilization, but it is rapidly becoming culturally bankrupt — incapable of producing dividends of social gain in any way commensurate with the terrible losses attendant upon its invocation.
70:2.10 (786.1) At one time physicians believed in bloodletting as a cure for many diseases, but they have since discovered better remedies for most of these disorders. And so must the international bloodletting of war certainly give place to the discovery of better methods for curing the ills of nations.
70:2.11 (786.2) The nations of Urantia have already entered upon the gigantic struggle between nationalistic militarism and industrialism, and in many ways this conflict is analogous to the agelong struggle between the herder-hunter and the farmer. But if industrialism is to triumph over militarism, it must avoid the dangers which beset it. The perils of budding industry on Urantia are:
70:2.12(786.3) 1. The strong drift toward materialism, spiritual blindness.
70:2.13(786.4) 2. The worship of wealth-power, value distortion.
70:2.14(786.5) 3. The vices of luxury, cultural immaturity.
70:2.15(786.6) 4. The increasing dangers of indolence, service insensitivity.
70:2.16(786.7) 5. The growth of undesirable racial softness, biologic deterioration.
70:2.17(786.8) 6. The threat of standardized industrial slavery, personality stagnation. Labor is ennobling but drudgery is benumbing.”
One tidbit on Nodite losses to claims of superiority:
92:4.5 (1007.5) “1. The Dalamatian teachings. The true concept of the First Source and Center was first promulgated on Urantia by the one hundred corporeal members of Prince Caligastia’s staff. This expanding revelation of Deity went on for more than three hundred thousand years until it was suddenly terminated by the planetary secession and the disruption of the teaching regime. Except for the work of Van, the influence of the Dalamatian revelation was practically lost to the whole world. Even the Nodites had forgotten this truth by the time of Adam’s arrival. Of all who received the teachings of the one hundred, the red men held them longest, but the idea of the Great Spirit was but a hazy concept in Amerindian religion when contact with Christianity greatly clarified and strengthened it.”
So back to the question, and no matter how many red herrings get thrown in, I will stay focused, so play fair
What are your qualifications for “supermortal” tinkering with DNA as a CREATURE?
- Sabinatu wrote: …the idea of the Great Spirit was but a hazy concept in Amerindian religion when contact with Christianity greatly clarified and strengthened it.Sab all authority comes from spirit. The act is ours, the consequence God’s. Religion may at times act unwisely but it does act.
Sabinatu, It seems few of us mortal creatures are qualified to tinker with DNA. None of us at supermortal levels, for sure. Note this from UB Paper 65:3.6.
Mankind on Urantia must solve its problems of mortal development with the human stocks it has — no more races will evolve from prehuman sources throughout all future time. But this fact does not preclude the possibility of the attainment of vastly higher levels of human development through the intelligent fostering of the evolutionary potentials still resident in the mortal races. That which we, the Life Carriers, do toward fostering and conserving the life strains before the appearance of human will, man must do for himself after such an event and subsequent to our retirement from active participation in evolution. In a general way, man’s evolutionary destiny is in his own hands, and scientific intelligence must sooner or later supersede the random functioning of uncontrolled natural selection and chance survival.
It seems like they are expecting us to get involved.
Note the phrase, ” supersede the random functioning of uncontrolled natural selection and chance survival.”
Hmmmmmmmmm. Does this mean be careful who you marry? We should be selective for biological reasons as well as love and affinity? Who do we know that has been selective?
But science is going forward to “control” human diseases. With the lessening of war and the increase of disease control, the revealors say overpopulation may become a serious problem “in the near future”. Near future? “Will Urantia rulers have the insight and courage to foster the multiplication of the average or stabilized human being instead of the extremes of the supernormal and the enormously increasing groups of the subnormal?”
68:6:11 From a world standpoint, overpopulation has never been a serious problem in the past, but if war is lessened and science increasingly controls human diseases, it may become a serious problem in the near future. At such a time the great test of the wisdom of world leadership will present itself. Will Urantia rulers have the insight and courage to foster the multiplication of the average or stabilized human being instead of the extremes of the supernormal and the enormously increasing groups of the subnormal? The normal man should be fostered; he is the backbone of civilization and the source of the mutant geniuses of the race. The subnormal man should be kept under society’s control; no more should be produced than are required to administer the lower levels of industry, those tasks requiring intelligence above the animal level but making such low-grade demands as to prove veritable slavery and bondage for the higher types of mankind.
The average and the normal should be fostered. Julian reminds us:
Notwithstanding this obstacle, it seems that you ought to be able to agree upon the biologic disfellowshiping of your more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks. P.585:4
How do we “disfellowship” our more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks?
Granted, the study of DNA is revealing many new ways of confronting diseases and it might be somewhat premature to think that there are specific genes which may be present which may identify various ailments and the possible manipulation of genes to help circumvent remedies for help in alleviating some of these diseases. However, I have researched and looked upon this DMA topic for some time and have found that many diseases are associated to chromosomes and that for the most part hundreds of diseases have been linked to the “X” chromosome, almost 99%. When we consider the procreation of offspring, we must look at the chromosomes where as the actual genes found that have been identified to various diseases may be linked in three’s.
I mention three’s because the initial human gene “DNA” mapping project, once completed, found two thirds fewer genes than originally expected. When even if a person was identified to have a gene which has been linked to a specific disease, may have been switched on because of two other genes which may be present in a specific relation to possibly other genes which their combination had turned that one gene on or produced that so called defective gene to begin with?
Therefore, to locate these specific genes which are associated to some specific disease are a form a progress which may need to be continued with more detail and record keeping, where a record bank would be most advantageous in order to map the gene associations. This way it can be backtracked to the chromosomes in order to identify the root of any possible problems but, this does not take into consideration various effects upon genes after creation.
The Urantia Book presents various questions as to selective breeding as a possible remedy to the betterment of the human stock in the future but, it really only presents questions and various possible scenarios which might be considered. I do not see that the UB is promoting any specific methods however, it may be suggesting that more information may be warranted where Gene mapping along with sociobiological investigation, along with behavioral and personality evaluations may also identify specific gene associations, which may be relative to each other, just like identifying diseases.
From my research, there is no guaranty that two parents who are of a so called higher stock will produce the same or higher categories offspring. It would seem that it is the combination of the chromosomes and other various factors of the parents which may be the causal affect to various products. There is no reason to assume that two parents of lower stock will not produce an offspring of extremely high stock and ability. However, there is some validity in what the UB presents where in many years past couples were required to take blood test before getting married, because there was some concern, or lack of knowledge, thinking that these tests could weed out mismatches? For the most part these tests have been stopped but, may be advantageous to restart these tests, in combination which what has been discovered in current DNA research. Blood typing have advanced a great deal since its primary inception and would also have some relations with DNA, especially when taking into consideration the parents blood types may produce irrelative combinations for a fetus’ blood type.
Nevertheless, I do not believe that our knowledge is anywhere to the point where we can assume that we can breed more superior offspring but, there is no reason why we could not attempt to try by recording as much information as possible in our attempts in doing so?
- Mark Kurtz wrote: …man’s evolutionary destiny is in his own hands, and scientific intelligence must sooner or later supersede the random functioning of uncontrolled natural selection and chance survival.Hi Mark, thanks for bringing that quote to our attention. The ball is definitely in our court on that one.Also clearly stated is the fact even though we do not have super mortals resident to authoritatively make determinations on biological fitness we should be able to disfellowship the antisocial members of society.
…The difficulty of executing such a radical program on Urantia consists in the absence of competent judges to pass upon the biologic fitness or unfitness of the individuals of your world races. Notwithstanding this obstacle, it seems that you ought to be able to agree upon the biologic disfellowshiping of your more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks. [Paper51:4.8, page 585:4]
To guide us is a useful direction the extraordinary inclusion of the affairs of one world about those of another, has been give us. Paper 72 “Government on a Neighboring Planet.”
Of all the Satania worlds which became isolated because of participation in the Lucifer rebellion, this planet has experienced a history most like that of Urantia. The similarity of the two spheres undoubtedly explains why permission to make this extraordinary presentation was granted, for it is most unusual for the system rulers to consent to the narration on one planet of the affairs of another. [Paper 72:0.2, page 808:2]
Anyway, if common sense were in abundant supply, we would take all the valuable lessons from centuries of breeding improvements in animal husbandry and run with that. And race horses are noble and strong without getting married and without the failure consequent on choosing the wrong horse as life partner. Sure, there’s more to it than being a good stud, but good breeding matters and it goes hand-in-hand with nurture in a good family.
In these confusing times of freedom of personal choice and unrestrained pleasure seeking, it is not surprising that, the home—man’s supreme evolutionary acquirement and civilization’s only hope of survival, is under serious threat.
…But look you well to the goal of destiny! Pleasures are indeed suicidal if they succeed in destroying property, which has become the institution of self-maintenance; and self-gratifications have indeed cost a fatal price if they bring about the collapse of marriage, the decadence of family life, and the destruction of the home — man’s supreme evolutionary acquirement and civilization’s only hope of survival. [Paper 84:8.6, page 943:1]
Marriage and consequent family life is worth any price, any sacrifice, requisite for its possession.
…Without the genuine love of a home, no child can achieve the full development of normal character. Character is something more than mere mind and morals. Of all social relations calculated to develop character, the most effective and ideal is the affectionate and understanding friendship of man and woman in the mutual embrace of intelligent wedlock. Marriage, with its manifold relations, is best designed to draw forth those precious impulses and those higher motives which are indispensable to the development of a strong character. I do not hesitate thus to glorify family life, for your Master has wisely chosen the father-child relationship as the very cornerstone of this new gospel of the kingdom. And such a matchless community of relationship, man and woman in the fond embrace of the highest ideals of time, is so valuable and satisfying an experience that it is worth any price, any sacrifice, requisite for its possession. [Paper 160:2.6, page 1775:7]
As we consider the further ramifications of this topic of eugenics, it’s worth also looking at the wisdom of the papers on “The Evolution of Marriage,” “The Marriage Institution” and “Marriage and Family Life” Papers 82–84.
The idea of disfellowshiping anyone and of altering our gene pool in any way to achieve a higher quality human being, no matter what language or terminology may be utilized, cannot be considered without a thorough understanding of human rights. I am not proposing any actions or projects on this topic, not being qualified to do so.
I suggest a word search in the book on “rights” with the intent to review the Revelators’ discussions regarding how rights developed and hold societies in maintenance. How rights have been earned and accepted is important for consideration of any changes. Read all the passages discussing rights. No one can propose any real changes without a wise understanding and respect for how rights became reality. This could be true for most any progressive planetary changes.
A question could apply here: Are rights actually privileges granted by higher authority? Higher authorities for a child are first his parents, grandparents, aunts or uncles, babysitters or an older child siblings, then social such as school progressing to community local, state, national and international law.
- Mark Kurtz wrote: The idea of disfellowshiping anyone and of altering our gene pool in any way to achieve a higher quality human being, no matter what language or terminology may be utilized, cannot be considered without a thorough understanding of human rights.Well Mark, the police and the law courts are already kept busy attempting to deal with the anti-social elements of society. Dealing with those in society “who bite the hand that feeds them.” It’s common knowledge that rights are suspended by criminal behaviour.
Much can be done in improving what already exists. Consider minimising the punitive aspects of dealing with crime and invest more in the rehabilitative potential. Not all wrongdoers are irredeemable. Failure is the way humans learn. Locking people away and throwing away the key is no way to redeem the penitent sinner. For true justice to function it must do so in combination with mercy.On the “Neighboring Planet,” prisoners are assessed as to fitness to rejoin normal society. They are also productively employed during their time of incarceration. An idle population of inmates is a recipe for trouble.Such ideas as keeping the “disfellowshipped” in regions doing tasks that are socially productive, like agriculture, are not too difficult of implementation here, under our current regulatory systems. Of course, in China with its centralized government, such programs can be quickly put in place without too much social disruption as they tend to respond more co-operatively to government rulings. More willingly than western cultures, which are characteristically independently minded and questioning of authority. Interesting to note there is a large percentage of the yellow race in that nation state, on the “Neighboring Planet.”In western society the rule of law must extend all the way to the principles underpinning those laws. Governments have to be seen as instruments of service of the people, for the people, by the people. Representative Governments must earn the trust of the people if they desire to implement worthy reforms. No reform will progress unless it is clearly and openly communicated.In an educated society you simply must carry the people with you.In the West it will take time and effort to modify the attitude from, “what’s in it for me?” to, “what’s in it for us?”President John F Kennedy, bless his soul, put it well; “My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.” It is dishonest to approach this topic – over and over and over and over again on Ubite forums – without addressing all the ways that races and cultures were “disfellowshipping” each other for millenia, isn’t it? We are way past anything working out on Urantia the way it works on a Neighboring Planet (1934 suggestion) since the ecomomic genocide of 2008 – THIS is what we have:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/paul-singer-marco-rubio_5637de40e4b079a43c0444eb
@Mark, “…..The idea of disfellowshiping anyone and of altering our gene pool in any way to achieve a higher quality human being, no matter what language or terminology may be utilized, cannot be considered without a thorough understanding of human rights….”
Good point. I think I made a muscular case against the “right” a creature may presume to have to alter “supermortal” designs (DNA) for power and $$$$ (for profit health care system in USA). No CREATURE has earned that right through Urantian acquired experiential wisdom endowing them with “supermortal” insight nor through any “normal” evolutionary path. Rick Warren mentioned the “rights” inherent in the Father’s Will for His children of time and space – HIS supermortal design – a healthy skin suit for soul inception and growth.
The truth is, THIS is what we got, even more virulent under das boot of the Shamans of Gizmology:
54:1.9 (614.4) How dare the self-willed creature encroach upon the rights of his fellows in the name of personal liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the universe stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of will and potentials of personality! No being, in the exercise of his supposed personal liberty, has a right to deprive any other being of those privileges of existence conferred by the Creators and duly respected by all their loyal associates, subordinates, and subjects.
And since we have been protected for about 2000 years
77:7.7 (863.8) Even prior to Pentecost no rebel spirit could dominate a normal human mind, and since that day even the weak minds of inferior mortals are free from such possibilities. The supposed casting out of devils since the arrival of the Spirit of Truth has been a matter of confounding a belief in demoniacal possession with hysteria, insanity, and feeble-mindedness. But just because Michael’s bestowal has forever liberated all human minds on Urantia from the possibility of demoniacal possession, do not imagine that such was not a reality in former ages.
here we go with “rights” the Shamans of Gizmology give themselves to take out those mind protections that Michael of Nebadon left behind:
https://www.rt.com/uk/318881-magnets-brain-immigration-religion/
So, yeah, Mark – there sure are a lot of NWO “rights” out there that are “revolutionary” because of the predominant philosophy for living of Nihilists, Hedonists and Anarchists. But the “wrong” done by the recent economic genocide of “labor” provides the clearest contrast between evil and good and the delusion of mixing them together for “progress”…
Every human being has the right to make their life less miserable through honest work – so who had the “rights” in USA to ship that God-given right to races/cultures that never evolved that “right” for themselves and never will because they are not “god-knowing” even with TAs and Spirit of Truth hovering all over them, also, for 2000 years….
132:5.24 (1465.3) “10. That part of your fortune which represents the earnings of your own mental and physical efforts — if your work has been done in fairness and equity — is truly your own. No man can gainsay your right to hold and use such wealth as you may see fit provided your exercise of this right does not work harm upon your fellows.”
So the real question is, once again, why the Schmodites always give themselves “rights”? And who of normal mind is going to trust THAT group of self-proclaimed “smartest people in the world” with “supermortal” tinkering of DNA chains and shutting off the part of the brain that “believes” in God with magnets and/or other gizmos still all “secret-y”?
Lock and load. Need to have that kind of “war” that really does go after the OBVIOUS evil….since we are definitely back to the situation Adam and Eve had with law and order…I am pretty sure that bending my knee to the Global War Drug and Slave Lords who succeeded in demolishing the financial power of a “middle class” ala the Shamans of Gizmology is not showing “patience” or Jesus-like “forgiveness, mercy, tolerance, or (what a cynical JOKE) “love”” that will bring Urantia to Light and Life.
1. The Urantia Problem
75:1.1 (839.2) The Adamic mission on experimental, rebellion-seared, and isolated Urantia was a formidable undertaking. And the Material Son and Daughter early became aware of the difficulty and complexity of their planetary assignment. Nevertheless, they courageously set about the task of solving their manifold problems. But when they addressed themselves to the all-important work of eliminating the defectives and degenerates from among the human strains, they were quite dismayed. They could see no way out of the dilemma, and they could not take counsel with their superiors on either Jerusem or Edentia. Here they were, isolated and day by day confronted with some new and complicated tangle, some problem that seemed to be unsolvable.
75:1.2 (839.3) Under normal conditions the first work of a Planetary Adam and Eve would be the co-ordination and blending of the races. But on Urantia such a project seemed just about hopeless, for the races, while biologically fit, had never been purged of their retarded and defective strains.
75:1.3 (839.4) Adam and Eve found themselves on a sphere wholly unprepared for the proclamation of the brotherhood of man, a world groping about in abject spiritual darkness and cursed with confusion worse confounded by the miscarriage of the mission of the preceding administration. Mind and morals were at a low level, and instead of beginning the task of effecting religious unity, they must begin all anew the work of converting the inhabitants to the most simple forms of religious belief. Instead of finding one language ready for adoption, they were confronted by the world-wide confusion of hundreds upon hundreds of local dialects. No Adam of the planetary service was ever set down on a more difficult world; the obstacles seemed insuperable and the problems beyond creature solution.
75:1.4 (839.5) They were isolated, and the tremendous sense of loneliness which bore down upon them was all the more heightened by the early departure of the Melchizedek receivers. Only indirectly, by means of the angelic orders, could they communicate with any being off the planet. Slowly their courage weakened, their spirits drooped, and sometimes their faith almost faltered.
75:1.5 (840.1) And this is the true picture of the consternation of these two noble souls as they pondered the tasks which confronted them. They were both keenly aware of the enormous undertaking involved in the execution of their planetary assignment.
75:1.6 (840.2) Probably no Material Sons of Nebadon were ever faced with such a difficult and seemingly hopeless task as confronted Adam and Eve in the sorry plight of Urantia. But they would have sometime met with success had they been more farseeing and patient. Both of them, especially Eve, were altogether too impatient; they were not willing to settle down to the long, long endurance test. They wanted to see some immediate results, and they did, but the results thus secured proved most disastrous both to themselves and to their world.”
So, Mark, do YOU wanna give “rights” to fellow creatures to mechanically manipulate your DNA or shut off the part of your biologic brain that knows God – with magnets, surgery, drugs or some secret drone-delivered weapon? DO you want to ship your God-Given right to enjoy the fruits of honest labor to races/cultures that have never found “God”?
I am reluctant to advocate for any action or development. I posted this topic because of what is in TUB and the TED talk that addressed directly related aspects.
TUB revelators want us to know of such things. One or more personalities decided to include a hint of future plans for Urantia by informing us of an attainment they call settled in light and life (SILAL). Reaching that goal involves major adjustments over time. Note 52:5.10, 55:3.1 and 55:3.22. Achieving SILAL involves many, many details of biology, government, spiritual, material management and lots of love. Rights likely will be redefined, perhaps many times.
We’d all be wise to read the book with a high degree of honesty with God, self and others because information from super mortals, as this book informs us, is superior to our present knowledge and it serves to encourage us with hints of progressive objection. What I get from reading all the book, is that divine plans intend for planets to achieve a materially and spiritually devout humanity—-rugged, brave, loving, enduring, disease-free and self governing planetary evolutionary crowning achievement of service and devotion to one another. More could be said, but brevity is nice.
@Mark, “…I am reluctant to advocate for any action or development. I posted this topic because of what is in TUB and the TED talk that addressed directly related aspects….”
So why did you start this topic? The TED talk and TUB have NOTHING IN COMMON. TUB clearly states that the (God’s Plan) qualified Life Carrier MECHANICAL intervention STOPPED when Andon and Fonta lit up the 6th and 7th Mind Adjutant circuit.
And did you NOT agree that the CREATURE is not qualified to tinker with the Creator’s “supermortal” design, especially that unplanned 8th race’s creatures with cosmically insane bloodlines who would be doing it for the most egregious of reasons – “greed is good”?
And did you NOT ask for a discussion about “rights”? Who’s “rights”?! The delusional scientists who gave themselves rights to “supermortal” designing without getting an Informed Consent from HUMANITY?
There is a GLOBAL circle jerk of TRILLIONS of dollars, yuans, schekles, bitcoins, wha’ever, seized by the War, Drug and Slave Lords over centuries of barbarism against any “middle class” civilization, getting laundered through USA “for-profit” health care in the guise of DNA “research”. You have to be cosmically insane to ignore the social ills – healthy normal humans being stripped of all the fruit of their honest labor over the past 40 years – as you jam ill-gotten spiral derivative e-wealth into DNA “research” that is claiming its goal to be the betterment of the gene pool of humanity. Completely insane bs, imho. Heck, good thing Cal et al arrived AFTER Andon and Fonta evolved, and good thing Amadon was evenly matched with the 100 – because in today’s world, the cosmically insane take their “right” to kill any and all who can stop their insanity – Jesus, Czars and on to the Kennedy’s…I say it is high time to put up a stronger defense…
Any “revolutionary” advance by “vicious minorities” crashes and burns. No normal mind in any race/culture on this planet is “trusting” this modern vicious minority (Shamans of Gizmology) to – HA! – put the USA on a leadership path to “Light and Life”. Delusional at best….
My potato launcher worked well enough in knocking out the gizmo drone…LOL
In general, I agree that USA is most definitely not a good place for “submerged violet blood” to advance to Light and Life for the next 1000 years and that – like Life on a Neighboring Planet – GOOD people need to come together in a place that can be defended. So there might be a lot more people wandering about for a while looking to resettle in a place DIVORCED of the vainglorious machinations of a vicious minority and with a strong enough defense to LIVE according to God’s Plan.
@midi – double-edged sword with DNA sampling – corps would continue to bury the data that PROVES what environmental toxins do to the DNA of workers and communities in the immediate area…and right now USA hospitals are taking advantage of the “grey zone” in patient’s rights and snagging blood and spinal fluid and body parts for the needs of the 1%ers…have not come across anyone in th epast couple of years who trusts, much less respects, the people operating in, and for, the “health care” system of USA – look at the raging heroin addiction as TED talks continue….
