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Creative/critical reading as an approach to comprehending UB

71 posts · 8 participants · started Jul 15, 2017, 1:59 PM

  1. The book nixes dream life value.
    (110:5.4) While their mortal hosts are asleep, the Adjusters try to register their creations in the higher levels of the material mind, and some of your grotesque dreams indicate their failure to make efficient contact. The absurdities of dream life not only testify to pressure of unexpressed emotions but also bear witness to the horrible distortion of the representations of the spiritual concepts presented by the Adjusters. Your own passions, urges, and other innate tendencies translate themselves into the picture and substitute their unexpressed desires for the divine messages which the indwellers are endeavoring to put into the psychic records during unconscious sleep.
    “While their mortal hosts are asleep, the Adjusters try to register their creations in the higher levels of the material mind,”
    I still wonder what’s going on when this is happening while we sleep, and how it relates to the happenings of our waking spiritual experiences.
  2. Hello BB.

    I don’t understand what you are trying to demonstrate or illustrate by your example.  We do begin our ‘morontial’ life on the planets of mortality…by the birth of soul and those choices and experiences which have survival value and add to soul and by the discovery of meanings and values discerned in the life lived on the planet of birth.  But the mansion worlds are specific places with specific purposes which are not attainable by dream or by consciousness….or so I understand.  We are advised that the current world of our habitations should receive most of our attention…on each world traversed through time and ascension.

    Being inspired in and by our imagination to strive for union with the Spirit within and anticipate the adventures to come offers value.  I wonder what value you find in your example?   You appear to be reaching for some conclusion or proposition in your presentation of premises of representation.  But you’ve not yet (to me) demonstrated the first:  3 forms of mansion worlds.  We are not on a mansion world and dreams will not take us to the mansion worlds truly.   But I am curious as to your point?  Your lists do not correlate with each other it appears but not sure that helps me anyway.  If a premise is faulty so will its conclusion or proposition be also.

    It doesn’t matter or make sense to dispute your theoretical abstractions….but what meaning and value do they bring you?  How is your understanding of this life or the next enhanced by this example of creative/critical reading?

    It seems if one believes the UB is what it claims to be….the factual presentation of reality for the purpose of correcting and clarifying, reducing confusion and eliminating errors for a better understanding of reality to assist us in our spiritual identity and personal transformations with a clearer perspective based on such a factual presentation…..that, perhaps, the authors meant what they wrote and wrote what they meant to convey?  If one does not believe the book to be a factual presentation….then why recreate it figuratively at all?

    If there were a real time, dream time, and after death time mansion world or mansion world experience, why not say so instead of writing dozens of pages of detailed description of them and how we arrive and when…arriving after physical death on spheres always in real-time in real locations after the slumber, short or long, between our departure of this world and arrival at the next.  So, have you self discovered meanings or value helpful to your understanding of what is described in the Papers?….or is this construct some form of contradiction to the Papers, as it appears so far?  A supporting construct that brings some form of illumination to mind or a substitution for what we read in the UB?

    Creative/critical reading, to my understanding, is not to deny what’s read but to discover meanings and value that requires thinking, getting deeper into the words being read….it’s not about jumbling concepts or redefining them in order to re-write them  according to our own inventions of definitions… that would be creative writing rather than reading I think.  Perhaps this is not a good example?  More likely I’m just not, yet, understanding the example or your explanation of it?

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  3. I haven’t read all of this thread, but I’d like to caushon against to much implication. Implying basically means to read into something. The only problem with that is all to often we read into something things that are not there. I think that when we imply something based on something that we read into the Urantia Book we should be very very careful not to read what we want to read into the text. Implication can be dangerous ground if we are not careful.

    On the other hand, implication could be a good thing. It encourages the use of the mind. It allows for speculation. It sharpens the intellect.

    It is a slippery slope to tread. On one hand it can keep the mind sharp. On the other hand it can lead to some of the wildest, most distructive things imaginable.

  4. I think that when we imply something based on something that we read into the Urantia Book we should be very very careful not to read what we want to read into the text. Implication can be dangerous ground if we are not careful.
    I’m certain that everyone does this, reads into the text things that aren’t there. It’s unavoidable. But in time, our Adjusters deliver us from all of these errors, and much more.
  5. … I’d like to caushon against to much implication. Implying basically means to read into something.

    According to the dictionary, “implying” — “to indicate or suggest without being explicitly stated”, was a common practice by Jesus when He used parables to teach, which required the hearer or now the reader, of these parables, to implicate His meaning as they may have understood His words.  It is evident, even now, from the contributions on this forum, that Jesus’ implications made through His parables, may still be misunderstood or not, but implication is used by many, even the contributor above, to present, “indicate or suggest without being explicitly stated”.

    It is a slippery slope to tread. On one hand it can keep the mind sharp. On the other hand it can lead to some of the wildest, most distructive things imaginable.

    The statement above is a prime example of “implicating” something, without presenting a full description of meaning, therefore making implication no more or less then personal opinion.

  6. It seems if one believes the UB is what it claims to be….the factual presentation of reality for the purpose of correcting and clarifying, reducing confusion and eliminating errors for a better understanding of reality to assist us in our spiritual identity and personal transformations with a clearer perspective based on such a factual presentation…..that, perhaps, the authors meant what they wrote and wrote what they meant to convey? If one does not believe the book to be a factual presentation….then why recreate it figuratively at all?

    I’m curious, as to the definition presented above (bolded), which seems to imply what “the UB is what it claims to be…”, where “reality” is used twice, although “reality” is used over 800 times in the UB, which would indicate that this word have many meanings as used within the text, somewhat contradicts any specific meaning that “the authors meant what they wrote and wrote what they meant to convey?”

    Therefore, if the authors are so clear in their presentation, it should then be obvious on a group basis, that the individual’s definition as stated above, is based on creative/critical comprehension, so implied, making it only one persons opinion.  Being a personal figurative explanation of the purpose of the UB, would then recreate its meaning, based on the implication of the reader.

  7. It would be important to differentiate the use of parables by Jesus and the Papers  themselves.  The parables are repeated by Jesus and most often  then explained within the Papers, as is the purpose and value of their application at the time with great specificity.  The Papers are not a set of parables or allegories and neither is the total work by so many authors metaphorical constructs.  There is always the potential for going down the rabbit hole, as per Chuck’s wise warning – it is not so difficult to transpose our personal misperceptions and misconceptions onto the Papers which tends to distort and obscure both the content and the meaning away from its stated intentions….greater understanding.  People are susceptible to prejudice…the loyalty to their own  opinions and perspectives.

    The first step in critical reading is the attempt for objectivity….as prejudice is specifically subjective.  According to the website BB posted the link to, the imposition of one’s personal view, knowledge, and experience of art or the written word comes later….first comes objective analysis to determine the intent, subjectivity, content, agenda, motive….and message written…objectively….for a subjective comparison and contrast and, perhaps, completion of ‘conclusion’.  For success one must know of and apply classical logic and reasoning objectively to weigh and measure whether there is any meaning of any value in reading and understanding WHAT IS WRITTEN and thereby to glean what is inferred, suggested, implied, obscured, intended, or otherwise finding meanings BEHIND the words, now in addition to the words themselves.

    One purpose of creative/critical reading is to measure the subjectivity and objectivity of the author….and do so with objectivity first.  Applying subjective responses/reactions onto another’s subjective writing is pure distortion X 2….rhetoric meets rhetoric.  One key to such reading is to measure the writer’s attempt at persuasion…. a form of rhetoricalization.   This is a normal conversational and argumentative form of listening and responding….subjectivity bumps into subjectivity reaction and that reaction begins a chain reaction that loses all objectivity….and value?

    For those who are interested the site is useful…and the page link below is a good place to navigate from.  What’s presented is a worthy skill set for us all to gain from in our studies.  Interestingly, there’s nothing I’ve found about deconstruction of writing for the purpose of reconstruction or rewriting….it’s about better understanding of what we read and how to determine both the meanings and the value of those meanings in what we read.  Basic stuff but a very interesting presentation format for study.  Academic stuff.  The ultimate purpose of which is forming writing skills for one’s own expressions…something good for all forumites, bloggers, and aspiring authors!

    http://www.criticalreading.com/critical_reading_core.htm

     

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  8. It seems if one believes the UB is what it claims to be….the factual presentation of reality for the purpose of correcting and clarifying, reducing confusion and eliminating errors for a better understanding of reality to assist us in our spiritual identity and personal transformations with a clearer perspective based on such a factual presentation…..that, perhaps, the authors meant what they wrote and wrote what they meant to convey? If one does not believe the book to be a factual presentation….then why recreate it figuratively at all?

    I’m curious, as to the definition presented above (bolded), which seems to imply what “the UB is what it claims to be…”, where “reality” is used twice, although “reality” is used over 800 times in the UB, which would indicate that this word have many meanings as used within the text, somewhat contradicts any specific meaning that “the authors meant what they wrote and wrote what they meant to convey?” Therefore, if the authors are so clear in their presentation, it should then be obvious on a group basis, that the individual’s definition as stated above, is based on creative/critical comprehension, so implied, making it only one persons opinion. Being a personal figurative explanation of the purpose of the UB, would then recreate its meaning, based on the implication of the reader.

    An interesting point!  Have you referenced the site yet that BB posted?

    One of the important steps in creative/critical reading is the skill and ability to restate what’s read to demonstrate understanding of  that which is read….and this step does not include rewriting or the subjective interpretation….but do you understand what is written well enough to restate what is written in ways that others can also understand what is written….not what you think about what is written – another step in the multiple steps presented at the site.  There is no information there I’ve found to suggest any form of allegorization or methaphorical interpretations of that which is presented as factual information.  I don’t know where that comes from….except in the attempt to satisfy our own subjectivity demands to make things fit into our personal prejudices and reality construct….where some minds will naturally, inherently, and endlessly twist, distort, misstate, misquote, and in any and every way possible to find….self justification.

    There’s nothing analytical, critical, or creative about such an approach to reading in general….and especially not the Revelation.

    And I thought my restatement to be pretty good!!   ;-)

    What do you think the authors claim the Papers to be?  Every student should be able to at least articulate that after a couple of reads, no?

    Here’s mine again and certainly it could be better:

    “….the factual presentation of reality for the purpose of correcting and clarifying, reducing confusion and eliminating errors for a better understanding of reality to assist us in our spiritual identity and personal transformations with a clearer perspective based on such a factual presentation…..”

    From the page linked above:

    Critical Reading, at its Core, Plain and Simple

    “Non-critical (or pre-critical) reading is concerned with recognizing what a text says about the topic. The goal is to make sense of the presentation as a sequence of thoughts, to understand the information, ideas, and opinions stated within the text from sentence to sentence, paragraph to paragraph. This is a linear activity.

    Critical reading is an analytic activity. The reader rereads a text to identify patterns of elements — information, values, assumptions, and language usage– throughout the discussion. These elements are tied together in an interpretation, an assertion of an underlying meaning of the text as a whole.

    Critical thinking involves bringing outside knowledge, biases, and values to bear to evaluate the presentation and decide what ultimately to accept as true.

    …….

    In the end, readers must take control of the text, not just repeat its assertions. At its core, critical reading involves becoming the author of one’s own understanding.”

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  9. Basically, I presented my beliefs on the subject. They are speculation, admittedly, and are not derived directly from what is written in the papers.  To me, one can be mindally, physically and spiritually asleep; and the fact revelators avail themselves of the word “sleep” to describe a state the personality finds itself, post-mortem, indicates at least to me, the context in which the word is used can be interpreted in multiple ways.   And it is this understanding that allows me to infer that the mansion world exists in the mental, physical and spiritual planes of reality. One can experience the mansion worlds in the here-and-now.   We do not have to wait for death to go through this experience.

    Here is one example: There are three expressions of the Mansion World: Mansion World of the Afterlife. Mansion World of the dream world. Mansion World of wake life (Urantia).

    I realize these are your interpretations. I suspect the thinkers on this forum will push back on these ideas. You’re going to have to delve into definitions of the phases you’ve made up for example. And then you’re going to have to provide supporting material from the book. I appreciate that you are trying to comprehend these matters. For example: what do the revelators mean when they refer to a mansion world?

    47:9.5 You will greatly enjoy your progress through the seven dematerializing worlds; they are really demortalizing spheres. You are mostly human on the first mansion world, just a mortal being minus a material body, a human mind housed in a morontia form — a material body of the morontia world but not a mortal house of flesh and blood. You really pass from the mortal state to the immortal status at the time of Adjuster fusion, and by the time you have finished the Jerusem career, you will be full-fledged morontians.
    .
    48:2.22 While the basic morontia forms of life and matter are identical from the first mansion world to the last universe transition sphere, there is a functional progression which gradually extends from the material to the spiritual. Your adaptation to this basically uniform but successively advancing and spiritizing creation is effected by this selective re-keying. Such an adjustment in the mechanism of personality is tantamount to a new creation, notwithstanding that you retain the same morontia form.
    There is a continuity to life, once initiated on an evolutionary world. As a sleeping survivor the individual is completely not conscious, not awake and not dreaming.
    0:4.15 The physical body of mortal flesh is not a part of the reassembly of the sleeping survivor; the physical body has returned to dust. The seraphim of assignment sponsors the new body, the morontia form, as the new life vehicle for the immortal soul and for the indwelling of the returned Adjuster. The Adjuster is the custodian of the spirit transcript of the mind of the sleeping survivor. The assigned seraphim is the keeper of the surviving identity — the immortal soul — as far as it has evolved. And when these two, the Adjuster and the seraphim, reunite their personality trusts, the new individual constitutes the resurrection of the old personality, the survival of the evolving morontia identity of the soul. Such a reassociation of soul and Adjuster is quite properly called a resurrection, a reassembly of personality factors; but even this does not entirely explain the reappearance of the surviving personality. Though you will probably never understand the fact of such an inexplicable transaction, you will sometime experientially know the truth of it if you do not reject the plan of mortal survival.
    .
    47:3.3 The mortal-mind transcripts and the active creature-memory patterns as transformed from the material levels to the spiritual are the individual possession of the detached Thought Adjusters; these spiritized factors of mind, memory, and creature personality are forever a part of such Adjusters. The creature mind-matrix and the passive potentials of identity are present in the morontia soul intrusted to the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardians. And it is the reuniting of the morontia-soul trust of the seraphim and the spirit-mind trust of the Adjuster that reassembles creature personality and constitutes resurrection of a sleeping survivor.
    .
    112:5.16 The situation which makes repersonalization possible is brought about in the resurrection halls of the morontia receiving planets of a local universe. Here in these life-assembly chambers the supervising authorities provide that relationship of universe energy — morontial, mindal, and spiritual — which makes possible the reconsciousizing of the sleeping survivor. The reassembly of the constituent parts of a onetime material personality involves: [. . .]
    The book nixes dream life value.

    BB

  10. From the page linked above:

    Critical Reading, at its Core, Plain and Simple

    “Non-critical (or pre-critical) reading is concerned with recognizing what a text says about the topic. The goal is to make sense of the presentation as a sequence of thoughts, to understand the information, ideas, and opinions stated within the text from sentence to sentence, paragraph to paragraph. This is a linear activity.

    Critical reading is an analytic activity. The reader rereads a text to identify patterns of elements — information, values, assumptions, and language usage– throughout the discussion. These elements are tied together in an interpretation, an assertion of an underlying meaning of the text as a whole.

    Critical thinking involves bringing outside knowledge, biases, and values to bear to evaluate the presentation and decide what ultimately to accept as true.

    …….

    In the end, readers must take control of the text, not just repeat its assertions. At its core, critical reading involves becoming the author of one’s own understanding.”

    The assumption would be, in its reproduction above, that you would agree with its statement or implication, in that you have highlighted in bold that: “At its core, critical reading involves becoming the author of one’s own understanding.” Which would be true to the individual readers understanding of the text.  However, this does not indicate that this personal understanding must be subjective to an-others objective viewpoint of the implied text.  This same implication is noted in the the following reproduction of “one’s own understanding” as presented below.

    Here’s mine again and certainly it could be better:

    “….the factual presentation of reality for the purpose of correcting and clarifying, reducing confusion and eliminating errors for a better understanding of reality to assist us in our spiritual identity and personal transformations with a clearer perspective based on such a factual presentation…..”

    In its analysis, it can represent the subjective opinion of the author, however when broken down, a reader my question what might be meant by the “factual presentation of reality”, regardless of implied “purpose”, because to the author, this is subjective to his own understanding.  Then to indicate “to assist us in our spiritual identity” where this implies the author has no understanding as to their “spiritual identity”, until they receive “personal transformations” of many possible “perspective[s]”, where in this “factual presentation” is subjective to the author, not necessarily objective to other readers?

    So, this becomes personal and in its repetition to others reflects an absolute, from the author, where it is no longer creative, but critical, and closed to additional comprehension.

  11. Basically I presented my beliefs on the subject. They are speculation, admittedly, and are not derived directly from what is written in the papers. To me, one can be mentally, physically and spiritually asleep. And it is this understanding that allows me infer that the mansion world exists in the mental, physical and spiritual planes of reality. One can experience the mansion worlds in the here-and-now. We do not have to wait for death to go through this experience.
    Okay, so it is your interpretation, your “beliefs” that “we do not have to wait for death” to experience the mansion world.  That “the mansion world exists in the mental, physical and spiritual planes of reality and one can experience it in the “here-and-now”.
    If one were to adopt your beliefs as their own, how would one reconcile this statement from TUB, if such a person was a 60-year old woman who has never had children?
    47:1.4 (531.2) On the first mansion world all survivors must pass the requirements of the parental commission from their native planets. The present Urantia commission consists of twelve parental couples, recently arrived, who have had mortal experience in rearing three or more children to the pubescent age. Service on this commission is rotational and is for only ten years as a rule. All who fail to satisfy these commissioners as to their parental experience must further qualify by service in the homes of the Material Sons on Jerusem or in part in the probationary nursery on the finaliters’ world.
    Mansion world #1 is a prerequisite to moving on to numbers 2-7, correct?  So if I were a 60 year old childless woman, with no opportunities to have children of my own here on Urantia, am I prohibited from experiencing the mansion worlds “in the here-and-now” but others, who have children, are able to do so?
  12. Keryn, don’t we have an opportunity to experience that very same event in the here-and-now? It is called adoption. The experience of adopting and raising a child during the here-and-now is no different than rearing a child on the mansion world.
    Basically I presented my beliefs on the subject. They are speculation, admittedly, and are not derived directly from what is written in the papers. To me, one can be mentally, physically and spiritually asleep. And it is this understanding that allows me infer that the mansion world exists in the mental, physical and spiritual planes of reality. One can experience the mansion worlds in the here-and-now. We do not have to wait for death to go through this experience.
    Okay, so it is your interpretation, your “beliefs” that “we do not have to wait for death” to experience the mansion world. That “the mansion world exists in the mental, physical and spiritual planes of reality and one can experience it in the “here-and-now”.
    If one were to adopt your beliefs as their own, how would one reconcile this statement from TUB, if such a person was a 60-year old woman who has never had children?
    47:1.4(531.2) On the first mansion world all survivors must pass the requirements of the parental commission from their native planets. The present Urantia commission consists of twelve parental couples, recently arrived, who have had mortal experience in rearing three or more children to the pubescent age. Service on this commission is rotational and is for only ten years as a rule. All who fail to satisfy these commissioners as to their parental experience must further qualify by service in the homes of the Material Sons on Jerusem or in part in the probationary nursery on the finaliters’ world.
    Mansion world #1 is a prerequisite to moving on to numbers 2-7, correct? So if I were a 60 year old childless woman, with no opportunities to have children of my own here on Urantia, am I prohibited from experiencing the mansion worlds “in the here-and-now” but others, who have children, are able to do so?

    BB

  13. The only morontia reality a human being living on earth has unfettered access to is the soul.

  14. Keryn, don’t we have an opportunity to experience that very same event in the here-and-now? It is called adoption. The experience of adopting and raising a child during the here-and-now is no different than rearing a child on the mansion world.
     By this answer, I can see that you do not intend to seriously discuss “critical reading” of the TUB.  You have your preconceived notion and will not deviate from it.  There are many, many people who cannot have children of their own or can not adopt them either.  Certainly, there are very few adoption agencies which would put an infant or young child into the care of a 60 year old person to raise.  Plenty of people try very hard to have children (or to adopt them) and are unable to do so.
  15. There is precedence that says otherwise:
    48:6.12 You should consider the statement about “heaven” and the “heaven of heavens.” The heaven conceived by most of your prophets was the first of the mansion worlds of the local system. When the apostle spoke of being “caught up to the third heaven,” he referred to that experience in which his Adjuster was detached during sleep and in this unusual state made a projection to the third of the seven mansion worlds. Some of your wise mensaw the vision of the greater heaven, “the heaven of heavens,” of which the sevenfold mansion world experience was but the first; the second being Jerusem; the third, Edentia and its satellites; the fourth, Salvington and the surrounding educational spheres; the fifth, Uversa; the sixth, Havona; and the seventh, Paradise.

    The only morontia reality a human being living on earth has unfettered access to is the soul.

    BB

  16. I posted this to share my thoughts with others. I am not looking to convince you of anything, Keryn. You do not have to accept what I posted.
    Keryn, don’t we have an opportunity to experience that very same event in the here-and-now? It is called adoption. The experience of adopting and raising a child during the here-and-now is no different than rearing a child on the mansion world.
    By this answer, I can see that you do not intend to seriously discuss “critical reading” of the TUB. You have your preconceived notion and will not deviate from it. There are many, many people who cannot have children of their own or can not adopt them either. Certainly, there are very few adoption agencies which would put an infant or young child into the care of a 60 year old person to raise. Plenty of people try very hard to have children (or to adopt them) and are unable to do so.

    BB

  17. 48:6.12 You should consider the statement about “heaven” and the “heaven of heavens.” The heaven conceived by most of your prophets was the first of the mansion worlds of the local system. When the apostle spoke of being “caught up to the third heaven,” he referred to that experience in which his Adjuster was detached during sleep and in this unusual state made a projection to the third of the seven mansion worlds. Some of your wise mensaw the vision of the greater heaven, “the heaven of heavens,” of which the sevenfold mansion world experience was but the first; the second being Jerusem; the third, Edentia and its satellites; the fourth, Salvington and the surrounding educational spheres; the fifth, Uversa; the sixth, Havona; and the seventh, Paradise.

    Clearly the Adjuster had the mansion world experience, not the human being.  The human being was unconscious –  asleep.  The soul does not sleep.  Awareness of the Adjuster’s experience by the soul is part of soul-consciousness.  Either the soul accompanied the Adjuster during this projection, or the Adjuster’s experience of the projection was shared with the soul on some level, all of which are possible in the highest psychic circles.  However, the interpretation of the experience by the material mind of the human being is always distorted and unreliable.

    Again, the soul is the only morontia reality the human mind has access to . . . and the human material mind has difficulty processing that experience   . . .  hence the need for faith-trust.  The goal is to penetrate the soul and reach its borderland which abuts on the superconscious where the Adjuster lives.  This requires psychic circle progression.

     

  18. I am not asking if you are trying to convince me or anyone else.  I am asking how you are able to convince *yourself* of these things, when the text clearly shows that the mansion world exists separate from our material experience on Urantia.

    I’m genuinely curious as to how you are able to “believe” that we can experience the mansion worlds in the here-and-now.  Using logic and critical thinking.  If we “do not have to wait for death to experience the mansion worlds” then why do the spheres #1-7 exist?  And where is the Resurrection Hall?  Can we saunter by and see the resurrections happening there, while alive here on planet Earth?  I mean, think about it!  Where is the Morontia Companion?  Do they visit us while we are asleep?  How would that work since one Companion is assigned to a thousand mortals?

    47:3.2 (532.8) The very center of all activities on the first mansion world is the resurrection hall, the enormous temple of personality assembly. This gigantic structure consists of the central rendezvous of the seraphic destiny guardians, the Thought Adjusters, and the archangels of the resurrection. The Life Carriers also function with these celestial beings in the resurrection of the dead.

     

    47:3.12 (534.4) As you start out on the first mansion world, one Morontia Companion is assigned to each company of one thousand ascending mortals, but you will encounter larger numbers as you progress through the seven mansion spheres. These beautiful and versatile beings are companionable associates and charming guides. They are free to accompany individuals or selected groups to any of the transition-culture spheres, including their satellite worlds. They are the excursion guides and leisure associates of all ascending mortals. They often accompany survivor groups on periodic visits to Jerusem, and on any day you are there, you can go to the registry sector of the system capital and meet ascending mortals from all seven of the mansion worlds since they freely journey back and forth between their residential abodes and the system headquarters.

  19. We will agree to disagree then, Bonita.

    48:6.12 You should consider the statement about “heaven” and the “heaven of heavens.” The heaven conceived by most of your prophets was the first of the mansion worlds of the local system. When the apostle spoke of being “caught up to the third heaven,” he referred to that experience in which his Adjuster was detached during sleep and in this unusual state made a projection to the third of the seven mansion worlds. Some of your wise mensaw the vision of the greater heaven, “the heaven of heavens,” of which the sevenfold mansion world experience was but the first; the second being Jerusem; the third, Edentia and its satellites; the fourth, Salvington and the surrounding educational spheres; the fifth, Uversa; the sixth, Havona; and the seventh, Paradise.

    Clearly the Adjuster had the mansion world experience, not the human being. The human being was unconscious – asleep. The soul does not sleep. Awareness of the Adjuster’s experience by the soul is part of soul-consciousness. Either the soul accompanied the Adjuster during this projection, or the Adjuster’s experience of the projection was shared with the soul on some level, all of which are possible in the highest psychic circles. However, the interpretation of the experience by the material mind of the human being is always distorted and unreliable. Again, the soul is the only morontia reality the human mind has access to . . . and the human material mind has difficulty processing that experience . . . hence the need for faith-trust. The goal is to penetrate the soul and reach its borderland which abuts on the superconscious where the Adjuster lives. This requires psychic circle progression.

    BB

  20. I believe I explained my reasoning.  I don’t know any other way to explain it. If I come up with another angle to explain the concept, I will post it.

    I am not asking if you are trying to convince me or anyone else. I am asking how you are able to convince *yourself* of these things, when the text clearly shows that the mansion world exists separate from our material experience on Urantia. I’m genuinely curious as to how you are able to “believe” that we can experience the mansion worlds in the here-and-now. Using logic and critical thinking. If we “do not have to wait for death to experience the mansion worlds” then why do the spheres #1-7 exist? And where is the Resurrection Hall? Can we saunter by and see the resurrections happening there, while alive here on planet Earth? I mean, think about it! Where is the Morontia Companion? Do they visit us while we are asleep? How would that work since one Companion is assigned to a thousand mortals? 47:3.2(532.8) The very center of all activities on the first mansion world is the resurrection hall, the enormous temple of personality assembly. This gigantic structure consists of the central rendezvous of the seraphic destiny guardians, the Thought Adjusters, and the archangels of the resurrection. The Life Carriers also function with these celestial beings in the resurrection of the dead. 47:3.12(534.4) As you start out on the first mansion world, one Morontia Companion is assigned to each company of one thousand ascending mortals, but you will encounter larger numbers as you progress through the seven mansion spheres. These beautiful and versatile beings are companionable associates and charming guides. They are free to accompany individuals or selected groups to any of the transition-culture spheres, including their satellite worlds. They are the excursion guides and leisure associates of all ascending mortals. They often accompany survivor groups on periodic visits to Jerusem, and on any day you are there, you can go to the registry sector of the system capital and meet ascending mortals from all seven of the mansion worlds since they freely journey back and forth between their residential abodes and the system headquarters.

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