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Afterlife

22 posts · 9 participants · started May 26, 2016, 12:05 PM

KaraboudjanParticipant
May 26, 2016, 12:05 PM
I want to ask happens to those that somehow manage to avoid living their lives, although they had many opportunities to do so? Like, for example if one manages to waste practically his or hers whole life on suicide attempts, and has for the rest of his or hers life deep sense of loneliness whether with another people or not? Are they going to ascend as well or are their personalities obliterated like they do on conciously evil people according to urantia book? And if someone willingly wants to be “obliterated” like (s)he never existed, is that granted to personal soul?

There are probably very many questions here, but just had to ask…
Mark KurtzParticipant
May 26, 2016, 12:43 PM
Hello Karaboudjan, Welcome.

It is my understanding all persons are valued by God. This from Jesus: “And now let me declare to you, once and for all time, that I have come down upon the earth, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me. And this is the final will of Him who sent me, that of all those he has given me I should not lose one. And this is the will of the Father: That every one who beholds the Son and who believes him shall have eternal life. Only yesterday did I feed you with bread for your bodies; today I offer you the bread of life for your hungry souls. Will you now take the bread of the spirit as you then so willingly ate the bread of this world?”

Our Paradise Father and our Universe Master Son Jesus are both aware of personal, individual situations, state of mind, etc. They know what each person needs and they would not trash anyone who is overcome by difficulties. They would have us all to make an effort to learn, understand, comprehend and spiritually grow, but when life becomes too much, some folks elect to leave life. Suicide does not automatically mean a person rejects God, but it does seem a person has given up trying in life, for whatever reason.

Loneliness is awful! But, it seems right to say such persons who are overcome have failed to discover God as much as could have happened. All persons need ministry. All of us!

“Are they going to ascend?” Yes, it seems we all wake up just where we leave off, if we don’t reject God. I understand the divine Judges know each person is valued and each one of us is judged in mercy. It is exciting to me to realize we are judged for what we NEED to continue life! Mercy is lavishly applied with divine grace and unending, ample love. Even if a person fails to fully realize choice of love available, such love will never end for those who do not reject God, in finality, with full awareness of rejection.

In other words, we need not worry about suicide resulting in extinction. It may be tragic for survivors and even difficult for the person who chooses to end life, but our Father’s plans, through his Sons, include unending mercy credits we cannot fully imagine! Also, we are informed of companion guides and teachers who will greet each person awakening on the Mansion Worlds. Even if a suicide person does not immediately resurrect, such persons will eventually be passed to the next life.

Total rejection of sonship seems to be the one major factor that results in failure to resurrect. If a person chooses to be “obliterated” it seems the seraphim will provide details of his life and the Judges will act in mercy. If the decision to be obliterated is based in spiritual immaturity, i.e. simply wanting to escape misery, not growing spiritually, then it seems the motive is not God rejection. Given absence of this major factor, we all will awaken again.

We’ve been given a great revelation and this volume seems to underscore the unimaginable extent of God’s love, service, and plans. Faith is a wonderful mind action. If we lack opportunities to see God, we may feel lonely. The lesson for all of us seems to be to serve one another as best we can; serve lonely people lovingly, as best as we are able in meeting their needs.

Does this help?

Have a blessed day!
MaraParticipant
May 26, 2016, 3:49 PM
Karaboudjan wrote:

. . . for example if one manages to waste practically his or hers whole life on suicide attempts, and has for the rest of his or hers life deep sense of loneliness whether with another people or not? Are they going to ascend as well or are their personalities obliterated like they do on conciously evil people according to urantia book?

Thanks for asking these questions Karaboudjan. The good news is that even the faintest flicker of faith is fostered by our heavenly Father, because He knows our troubles and his mercy is great. He knows the troubles of his children. His mercy abounds.

2:6:6 The affectionate heavenly Father, whose spirit indwells his children on earth, is not a divided personality — one of justice and one of mercy — neither does it require a mediator to secure the Father’s favor or forgiveness. Divine righteousness is not dominated by strict retributive justice; God as a father transcends God as a judge.

8:4:2 God is love, the Son is mercy, the Spirit is ministry — the ministry of divine love and endless mercy to all intelligent creation. The Spirit is the personification of the Father’s love and the Son’s mercy; in him are they eternally united for universal service. The Spirit is love applied to the creature creation, the combined love of the Father and the Son.

Over the years I’ve studied this book both as an individual and with other readers, I myself have wondered whether or not a friend or a relative would make it to the Mansion worlds, or would he/she fail to make it that far? I have concluded I cannot know, because I do not know where my friend or relative is spiritually speaking. I am not inside them. But God is inside and He does know. I think He is the only one who knows. All it takes is a flicker of faith. A mortal human like me cannot measure a flicker of faith. It’s not in my job description to know. But it is in my job description to help my friend or relative who is struggling with life. And I hope to be there for them when things get really rough. My brother committed suicide. Did he have a flicker of faith? I do not know, but God knows. Could I have prevented his suicide? No. But all of this probably does not answer your question about obliteration of personality.

Maybe a quick review of evil, sin, error and iniquity can shed light on personality survival.

54:0:1 EVOLUTIONARY man finds it difficult fully to comprehend the significance and to grasp the meanings of evil, error, sin, and iniquity. Man is slow to perceive that contrastive perfection and imperfection produce potential evil; that conflicting truth and falsehood create confusing error; that the divine endowment of freewill choice eventuates in the divergent realms of sin and righteousness; that the persistent pursuit of divinity leads to the kingdom of God as contrasted with its continuous rejection, which leads to the domains of iniquity.

Or to put it another way (67:1:4):
- Evil is a partial realization of, or maladjustment to, universe realities.
- Error might be regarded as a misconception or distortion of reality.
- Sin is a purposeful resistance to divine reality — a conscious choosing to oppose spiritual progress.
- Iniquity consists in an open and persistent defiance of recognized reality and signifies such a degree of personality disintegration as to border on cosmic insanity.
It is iniquity, continuous rejection of and persistent defiance of God, that leads to personality disintegration – non-survival – no afterlife.

Or to put it another way:

67:1:5 Error suggests lack of intellectual keenness; evil, deficiency of wisdom; sin, abject spiritual poverty; but iniquity is indicative of vanishing personality control.

People who are evil are merely deficient of wisdom.
AngelaParticipant
May 26, 2016, 5:28 PM
Hi Karaboudjan. Your questions are very welcome! It is a sign of an evolving soul to ask these questions.

We are told in the Urantia Book that our ‘purpose’ in this material existence is to experience all aspects of life as a human. The good and the bad. Descending into a bout of loneliness gives us perspective to truly value a kindred spirit, someone we can share our deepest secrets with. Facing death gives us capacity to appreciate the gift of life and its possibilities, and to learn the value of mercy and forgiveness. We are urged to search for the lesson in each experience and to adjust our decisions accordingly. This is the process of soul growth that we have been entrusted to pursue. Free-will allows us the full spectrum of choice, including to opt out. But then the opportunity for advancement in this life would be given away, needlessly. We would be given other opportunities to learn the same lessons, but isn’t it better to get there much more directly?

Yes, there is life eternal — we are spiritual beings learning through material experience. You are a noble and beautiful spiritual identity in the making. We should hungrily take from this life every lesson offered to us, through every unpleasant experience and move on to better decisions informed by our renewed understanding of truth in this reality. Always in the knowledge that we are loved by our spiritual guides and that this love transcends this life into eternity. Look for that love in the beauty that surrounds you, but also within your own beautiful soul.

The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)
AnonymousInactive
May 26, 2016, 10:20 PM

Karaboudjan wrote:

I want to ask [what] happens to those that somehow manage to avoid living their lives, although they had many opportunities to do so?
Like, for example if one manages to waste practically his or hers whole life on suicide attempts, and has for the rest of his or hers life deep sense of loneliness whether with another people or not?

Are they going to ascend as well or are their personalities obliterated like they do on conciously evil people according to urantia book? And if someone willingly wants to be “obliterated” like (s)he never existed, is that granted to personal soul?

Karaboudjan: Your questions are interesting and as they are worded, might be misunderstood by some?

Your example of “suicide attempts” which is coupled with “deep sense of loneliness” in between these attempts, which might indicate some kind of depressive state, where there may also be numerous reasons for such feelings, and mindedness, in that one might think that there are other issues which might be the cause for such actions or feeling? If one assumes that someone could or would sense that they have lived before and thinks that their previous life ended due to a repetition of their current understanding of feeling or sense, it may tend to make them think that they were being punished for not having lived these lives as fully as one might expect. When I say punished, I refer to the thought of being in an eternal loop, where there is no escaping from because they have not wished to continue, or make something better for themselves. If this were the case, one would need to think that in every successive life’s experience one can remember or associate specific events as having repeated them self, and if this could be verified as true, then one must ask them self why these thoughts seem to be true? Also, if true, realizing that there is repetition, one should also understand that each additional existence is meant for an opportunity for change, and if this opportunity is not taken it may just result in continuance of personal imprisonment.

The Urantia Book tends to promote eternal life in the spirit or making persons think that they can live forever, but fails to present an argument where if one lives their current life in less than humane conditions for all, that some would wish for a better life in the next, and for those who have not experienced any humane feeling from their brethren would surely not know anything better to live for or wish for. Therefore, there is no purpose for one to live at all, where this purpose can be associated to love, where for the many, to love and be loved. So, if one has not experienced the ability to love or be loved, can there be no desire to continue. Now, even if one has loved but not been loved in return, this rejection can destroy the continuance to love another or others, which also destroys one’s faith in their own ability to love, which leads into depression and a wish for non-continuance. This is the loneliness mentioned above, even when surrounded by many, and the factor of the saying love others as you love yourself. One then must think of something which they can do in order to love themselves a little more each day, even if they think there is nothing to love within themselves, having no purpose.

As to the last questions posed above; where the question indicates that how would anyone really know if these factors were granted or not. If a soul continues and has no memory of their previous soul’s encounters or actions, what difference would it make, and how could one even prove it to them self? The question is only valid if one had memory of their soul’s previous existence or continuation, and if that soul was sinful by nature, and understood this, why would they not choose to change them self? In this case it would feel like a living eternal hell. Imprisonment within them self. So, why not change or ask for help?
BradlyParticipant
May 27, 2016, 3:48 PM

Karaboudjan wrote:

I want to ask happens to those that somehow manage to avoid living their lives, although they had many opportunities to do so? Like, for example if one manages to waste practically his or hers whole life on suicide attempts, and has for the rest of his or hers life deep sense of loneliness whether with another people or not? Are they going to ascend as well or are their personalities obliterated like they do on conciously evil people according to urantia book? And if someone willingly wants to be “obliterated” like (s)he never existed, is that granted to personal soul?

Greetings and welcome Karaboudjan!!

Very important questions…I appreciate the opportunity to discuss the topic. Wasted time and opportunity; sadness; loneliness; no sense of purpose or belonging…all are common enough among the mortals of our world. All come from the over indulgence of the mind poisons – “fear, anger, envy, jealousy, suspicion, and intolerance likewise tremendously interfere with the spiritual progress of the evolving soul.” And these derive from the material mind’s embrace of self importance. So long as I felt I was the most important person in the world, life was miserable and lonely. Happiness cannot come to anyone who loves self more than others. Such love of self is a false and hollow “love” and cannot bring forth the fruit of the spirit – “for the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance.” It is only by loving others and service to others that our “true self” comes forth – the second nature of our very being – the spirit nature.

Born into this dual nature of material self which brings self importance, a natural state of mind/being and our spirit self which desires to find and serve God and share the love in that relationship with others – we are taught we must choose between these two natures and learn to identify more and more with the spirit nature. By this transfer of the seat of our identity, we find happiness, the end of loneliness, a sense of belonging and purpose and destiny! That destiny is a journey over great distance and time and transformation and it may begin here on this world and in this life….if we choose and will it to be so. It is not complicated…. it is difficult early on but gets easier and easier as we progress in our personal life of choosing God first and sharing/expressing that love connection to the living vine. When once we choose to belong to God and to love God, then everything changes.

We are taught that everyone gets the chance to know this and choose this….if not on this world of birth, then on the Mansion Worlds to come. None will be denied this due to mortal ignorance, stupidity, selfishness, confusion, doubt, disbelief, wrong beliefs, sadness, or any other malady of our mortal mind. Such a sad and desperate human life does not condemn anyone regarding their eternal potential guaranteed by the lavish mercy credits our loving Creator bestows to all of his beloved children. But still, it is sad to see those who suffer by their own self importance.

It is odd that one might love one’s self and also be self loathing but it is also not uncommon. Feeling sorry for oneself IS a form of self love or perhaps, more accurately, self “importance”. It is a disconnect from reality and demonstrates an unwillingness to see or unawareness of the suffering of others and the opportunity to serve others in love.

While I hope the best for such suffering ones as you describe, I am also reminded we are taught to be wary of “false sympathy” – sympathy for those who suffer by their own hand and own free will choices is misplaced. Such ones are self victimized. They can be loved and served and may perhaps respond to such loving service – but should we pity those whose own choices make them miserable? There are plenty of true victims to serve and there are our brothers and sisters who believe and love and serve to join with in harmony, peace, joy, happiness, hope, laughter, and adventure!!

We are not to worry so much about God’s power and plan and tender mercies….all are loved and all will be given opportunity to discover the wonder and power of love. Or so I think.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
May 27, 2016, 5:51 PM
Yes, suicide is a nasty business. My best friend’s nephew committed suicide last month. He was a solitary person; they found him after three weeks and no one knew. Although suicide does not occur in the animal kingdom, humans do have the potential for self-annihilation, not only on the material level, but on the morontia and spiritual levels as well. Rodan explained that suicide is evidence of the failure to learn the art of living. In the presentation of Rodan’s philosophy, TUB stresses the importance of socializing the personality to avoid the very root of this problem. (Read 160:2) Judas is another example of an isolated personality who eventually committed suicide.

160:1.5 Animals respond nobly to the urge of life, but only man can attain the art of living, albeit the majority of mankind only experience the animal urge to live. Animals know only this blind and instinctive urge; man is capable of transcending this urge to natural function. Man may elect to live upon the high plane of intelligent art, even that of celestial joy and spiritual ecstasy. Animals make no inquiry into the purposes of life; therefore they never worry, neither do they commit suicide. Suicide among men testifies that such beings have emerged from the purely animal stage of existence, and to the further fact that the exploratory efforts of such human beings have failed to attain the artistic levels of mortal experience. Animals know not the meaning of life; man not only possesses capacity for the recognition of values and the comprehension of meanings, but he also is conscious of the meaning of meanings — he is self-conscious of insight.

193:4.2 As we look back upon this tragedy, we conceive that Judas went wrong, primarily, because he was very markedly an isolated personality, a personality shut in and away from ordinary social contacts. He persistently refused to confide in, or freely fraternize with, his fellow apostles. But his being an isolated type of personality would not, in and of itself, have wrought such mischief for Judas had it not been that he also failed to increase in love and grow in spiritual grace. And then, as if to make a bad matter worse, he persistently harbored grudges and fostered such psychologic enemies as revenge and the generalized craving to “get even” with somebody for all his disappointments.
MaraParticipant
May 28, 2016, 6:24 PM
Afterlife is survival to go on to the Mansion Worlds from our natal world (earth, aka Urantia) sooner or later. I just read this from from PAPER 170 and it reminded me of the possibility/probability of proceeding with life after this life experience is finished. Again, faith is one of he keys to unlock the entrance to life extending into the hereafter. Even if it is only a flicker of faith.

^(1861.2)^170:2.20 Jesus taught that, by faith, the believer enters the kingdom now. In the various discourses he taught that two things are essential to faith-entrance into the kingdom:

^(1861.3)^170:2.21 1. Faith, sincerity. To come as a little child, to receive the bestowal of sonship as a gift; to submit to the doing of the Father’s will without questioning and in the full confidence and genuine trustfulness of the Father’s wisdom; to come into the kingdom free from prejudice and preconception; to be open-minded and teachable like an unspoiled child.

^(1861.4)^170:2.22 2. Truth hunger. The thirst for righteousness, a change of mind, the acquirement of the motive to be like God and to find God.

^(1861.5)^170:2.23 Jesus taught that sin is not the child of a defective nature but rather the offspring of a knowing mind dominated by an unsubmissive will. Regarding sin, he taught that God has forgiven; that we make such forgiveness personally available by the act of forgiving our fellows. When you forgive your brother in the flesh, you thereby create the capacity in your own soul for the reception of the reality of God’s forgiveness of your own misdeeds.

On doubt and faith Jesus said the biggest struggle some of us have is to fight the good fight of faith.

159:3:8 The world is filled with hungry souls who famish in the very presence of the bread of life; men die searching for the very God who lives within them. Men seek for the treasures of the kingdom with yearning hearts and weary feet when they are all within the immediate grasp of living faith. Faith is to religion what sails are to a ship; it is an addition of power, not an added burden of life. There is but one struggle for those who enter the kingdom, and that is to fight the good fight of faith. The believer has only one battle, and that is against doubt — unbelief.

Jesus gives further instruction to a group of believers in the same Paper:

^(1766.7)^159:3.11 Teach all believers to avoid leaning upon the insecure props of false sympathy. You cannot develop strong characters out of the indulgence of self-pity; honestly endeavor to avoid the deceptive influence of mere fellowship in misery. Extend sympathy to the brave and courageous while you withhold overmuch pity from those cowardly souls who only halfheartedly stand up before the trials of living. Offer not consolation to those who lie down before their troubles without a struggle. Sympathize not with your fellows merely that they may sympathize with you in return.

. . .

^(1767.1)^159:3.13 Teach all believers that those who enter the kingdom are not thereby rendered immune to the accidents of time or to the ordinary catastrophes of nature. Believing the gospel will not prevent getting into trouble, but it will insure that you shall be unafraid when trouble does overtake you. If you dare to believe in me and wholeheartedly proceed to follow after me, you shall most certainly by so doing enter upon the sure pathway to trouble. I do not promise to deliver you from the waters of adversity, but I do promise to go with you through all of them.
KaraboudjanParticipant
May 30, 2016, 6:00 PM
Thank you for your answers. Actually I find philosophy of Urantia quite interesting, regardless I may not agree on all details. But that’s being human I guess

Actually from your answers another big question came to mind. It also is kinda afterlife, but more question of love. More specifically: Can evil person(s) love? For example a serial killer couple passionately in love with each other an to serial killing of course. Perhaps one would say bonnie and clyde archetype. Of course many people would say “No they shall burn in hell/gehenna or what ever culturally defined “bad place” and you are mentally ill to even ask such a thing. Of course many of you probably do not think this way. Maybe this is a bit Job argument also as God sent Devil/AzaZel/Belzebub (no not that one Queens Bohemian Rhapsody)/ etc. to test Job -like tpo waht extent evil serves God

I really don’t know what is my point here. I just always wanted to think very differently. And it also seems foten that the more answers you have in life the more questions you have in life :D
Mark KurtzParticipant
May 30, 2016, 8:54 PM
You said, “I just wanted to think differently”.

Good! Maybe we all could benefit from thinking differently by wanting to grow more towards God! Join the growing crowd!

This is a good place to ask questions! The crowd is small here, but on the internet it is a growing crowd of people who are seeking answers, directions, and greater satisfaction for a personal religion. I hope you keep the questions coming because questions here on the Forum help us all to think. New insights and ideas are beneficial when we grow to love one another.

In quest we all seek Truth,

MK
AngelaParticipant
May 31, 2016, 3:03 AM
Hi Karaboudjan,

This is another really interesting point for discussion, thank you!

Karaboudjan wrote:

Can evil person(s) love?

In my opinion it is the decision or intent that is evil, not the person. If we make evil choices continuously, we are denying our soul opportunity for growth and that leads to a failure to survive this material existence.

Love is the selfless giving to another. It is all about what is good for the other person without thought to our own needs. The example you provide describes reciprocal affection between those in close association. Is this love? Is it selfless giving? The intensity of feeling may, in fact, be linked to the desire for affirmation despite the illegal activity. One would have to have greater detail to assess the particular circumstances. It may be genuine love with constant sacrifices of one’s own comfort or needs for the other.

The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)
GeneParticipant
May 31, 2016, 4:03 AM
So: when does afterlife begin?

i say if your soul is growing it’s happening now.
BradlyParticipant
May 31, 2016, 4:22 PM
Interesting question Karaboudjan….I look forward to your continued reading/study of what the UB has to say on these important issues.

Love is a most powerful force in the universe of universes and eventually overcomes all evil and sin. The UB redefines “evil” as a demonstration of ignorance of reality (like the reality of God’s paternal nature, the resulting family of creation, and the reality of love), and/or immaturity, inexperience, self love/self importance, and choices/motives based on fear, anxiety, uncertainty, etc. God has nothing to do with nor any need for evil/error. Evil is a function of free will…..all beings with free will do error in their decisions and priorities and strategies and tactics which are primarily expressions of inexperience, immaturity; it’s the “learning curve” of making better choices based on experience and spiritualization. We will learn eventually to not only know right from wrong but to also learn to know better from good and, eventually, to learn best from better as we ascend in experience.

To be selfish is simply to be self important and to identify with our basic animal natures as opposed to our spiritual nature….we are born into this normal dual nature. Mortals are not born sinful but we are born with material bodies on a material world with the ability to find the spirit within, respond to that spirit, connect to it in ways which changes us and everything that is important to us. That spirit connection is transformative, everything changes!

In your example, those who know right from wrong and then persist in choosing wrong and enjoying it too, have embraced sin – this is beyond the “evil” of mortal immaturities and errors in choice. The choices we make here on our world have definitive effects on both our spiritual progress AND our potential for eternity. No one here can say who will survive death as the UB does not give any precise definitions or examples of who will and will not wake up on the Mansion Worlds. But the embrace of sin becomes iniquitous and such a twisted mind does experience consequences.

In my opinion, there are three general “groups” of mortals: 1) those who believe in God and seek his will and express love of others in their faith and hope – religionists who truly seek God’s will in their daily life; 2) those who remain material focused and self important but also discover the power of love for others and crave that love circuit connection and grow in wisdom and experience sufficiently to find hope, happiness, contentment, and connection to others by the love response they come to feel – mortals who do not consider themselves religionists but do succumb to the power of love for others – the reality response to the Divine love circuit; 3) finally, there are those who do not love and do not have compassion and feel no guilt for their intentional wrong doing and become so disconnected to reality that their own unrealities and unbridled self importance may indeed prevent their potential as gifted by God’s purpose, plan, and power….or universe reality.

The UB teaches that there is no hell or eternal suffering for such souls. Their hell is the life that comes to those who embrace sin and do not learn to serve others or to love others as much and even more than they love themselves. This is a form of self exclusion from reality and from the power of love, which truly must be given to be received…love is a circuit, a universal circuit, that connects all beings in creation who love and serve one another.

God is love….that’s reality!

2:4.1 (38.1) Mercy is simply justice tempered by that wisdom which grows out of perfection of knowledge and the full recognition of the natural weaknesses and environmental handicaps of finite creatures. “Our God is full of compassion, gracious, long-suffering, and plenteous in mercy.” Therefore “whosoever calls upon the Lord shall be saved,” “for he will abundantly pardon.” “The mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting”; yes, “his mercy endures forever.” “I am the Lord who executes loving-kindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth, for in these things I delight.” “I do not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men,” for I am “the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort.”

2:4.2 (38.2) God is inherently kind, naturally compassionate, and everlastingly merciful. And never is it necessary that any influence be brought to bear upon the Father to call forth his loving-kindness. The creature’s need is wholly sufficient to insure the full flow of the Father’s tender mercies and his saving grace. Since God knows all about his children, it is easy for him to forgive. The better man understands his neighbor, the easier it will be to forgive him, even to love him.

2:5.4 (39.3) God is divinely kind to sinners. When rebels return to righteousness, they are mercifully received, “for our God will abundantly pardon.” “I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins.” “Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us that we should be called the sons of God.”

2:5.10 (40.2) But the love of God is an intelligent and farseeing parental affection. The divine love functions in unified association with divine wisdom and all other infinite characteristics of the perfect nature of the Universal Father. God is love, but love is not God. The greatest manifestation of the divine love for mortal beings is observed in the bestowal of the Thought Adjusters, but your greatest revelation of the Father’s love is seen in the bestowal life of his Son Michael as he lived on earth the ideal spiritual life. It is the indwelling Adjuster who individualizes the love of God to each human soul.

2:5.11 (40.3) At times I am almost pained to be compelled to portray the divine affection of the heavenly Father for his universe children by the employment of the human word symbol love. This term, even though it does connote man’s highest concept of the mortal relations of respect and devotion, is so frequently designative of so much of human relationship that is wholly ignoble and utterly unfit to be known by any word which is also used to indicate the matchless affection of the living God for his universe creatures! How unfortunate that I cannot make use of some supernal and exclusive term which would convey to the mind of man the true nature and exquisitely beautiful significance of the divine affection of the Paradise Father.

2:5.12 (40.4) When man loses sight of the love of a personal God, the kingdom of God becomes merely the kingdom of good. Notwithstanding the infinite unity of the divine nature, love is the dominant characteristic of all God’s personal dealings with his creatures.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Jun 2, 2016, 2:10 PM
I could find the word “afterlife” only three times in TUB and never did it refer to life after death. I find that interesting. Afterlife has come to mean life after death, but in reality there’s no significant difference between life before death and life after death. It’s the same life minus a material body and the adjutant mind ministry. If during this life you don’t identify yourself solely with the material body and adjutant mind ministry, but instead with the soul, then chances are you won’t notice much of a change in yourself on the mansion worlds. Shifting identity to the soul during this life puts us on par with “normal” worlds. That’s why the Spirit of Truth has made it possible for us to bypass the effects of the rebellion.

47:3.1 On the mansion worlds the resurrected mortal survivors resume their lives just where they left off when overtaken by death. When you go from Urantia to the first mansion world, you will notice considerable change, but if you had come from a more normal and progressive sphere of time, you would hardly notice the difference except for the fact that you were in possession of a different body; the tabernacle of flesh and blood has been left behind on the world of nativity.

34:7.6 Jesus showed mankind the new way of mortal living whereby human beings may very largely escape the dire consequences of the Caligastic rebellion and most effectively compensate for the deprivations resulting from the Adamic default. “The spirit of the life of Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of animal living and the temptations of evil and sin.” “This is the victory that overcomes the flesh, even your faith.”

Gene wrote: So: when does afterlife begin? i say if your soul is growing it’s happening now.

So yeah. I agree. Here’s the quote to support what you wrote:

48:6.2 You should understand that the morontia life of an ascending mortal is really initiated on the inhabited worlds at the conception of the soul, at that moment when the creature mind of moral status is indwelt by the spirit Adjuster. And from that moment on, the mortal soul has potential capacity for supermortal function, even for recognition on the higher levels of the morontia spheres of the local universe.

How cool is that? We who have souls are already capable of living the morontia life, the heavenly life! All we have to do is identify it and own it; then, it’s like peace on earth. Sweet! The Spirit of Truth brings assurance and peace to the soul.

181:1.10 The peace of Jesus is, then, the peace and assurance of a son who fully believes that his career for time and eternity is safely and wholly in the care and keeping of an all-wise, all-loving, and all-powerful spirit Father. And this is, indeed, a peace which passes the understanding of mortal mind, but which can be enjoyed to the full by the believing human heart.
Nigel NunnParticipant
Jun 9, 2016, 7:42 AM
Bonita wrote:

“How cool is that? We who have souls are already capable of living the morontia life, the heavenly life! All we have to do is identify it and own it; then, it’s like peace on earth. Sweet! The Spirit of Truth brings assurance and peace to the soul.”

And for those keen to join the fun, notice how such soul-dwellers might help to restore the missing “Jerusem-perspective” the Prince’s staff (and Adam) were commissioned to plant as revelatory core for evolutionary paradigms.

When you think about it, what’s so different between (A) a native of Urantia who has consecrated their short stay to gentle collaboration with the Most Highs working at this end of Michael’s “Way” — and who has digested the “Jerusem-perspective” via the 5th Epochal Revelation, and (B) some adventurous Jerusem volunteer who happens to have had the experience of waking up in the remedial mansion world nurseries?

Which begs a question: on this decimal Urantia, the sentimental shrine of all Nebadon (1319.1, 119:8.8), can peaceful flocks of soul-dwellers replace the need for the usual super-human material administration? Is this part of the agondonter opportunity? Is this why adjusters flock, so that they can become one with peculiar humans — baby souls whose every fibre is laid down by raw choice, not by the intellectual compulsion imposed by growing up on a world where a non-native admin has been smoothing the way for 500,000 years?

Thinking long-term here…

Nigel
BonitaParticipant
Jun 9, 2016, 12:35 PM

Nigel Nunn wrote:

Which begs a question: on this decimal Urantia, the sentimental shrine of all Nebadon (1319.1, 119:8.8), can peaceful flocks of soul-dwellers replace the need for the usual super-human material administration?

NO NO NO NO

Nigel Nunn wrote:

Thinking long-term here…

Like hundreds and hundreds of thousands of years maybe?
MaraParticipant
Jun 10, 2016, 7:54 PM

Nigel Nunn wrote:

. . . can peaceful flocks of soul-dwellers replace the need for the usual super-human material administration?

Interesting question, Nigel. Made me think. So I started a bit of research, not exhaustive. I looked up “light and life”for clues. But my instinct is that there will be many, many duties to do beyond what we might now imagine, thus requiring a whole host of other beings, besides the “peaceful flocks of soul-dwellers”, aka glorified beings in some kind of hierarchical administration.

RE: Life Carriers:

36:1:4 When an evolutionary planet is finally settled in light and life, the Life Carriers are organized into the higher deliberative bodies of advisory capacity to assist in the further administration and development of the world and its glorified beings. In the later and settled ages of an evolving universe these Life Carriers are intrusted with many new duties.

RE: Planetary Prince and the temple of light:

40:3:1 Although deprived of the immediate benefits of the planetary bestowals of the descending Sons of God, though the Paradise ascent is long deferred, nevertheless, soon after an evolutionary planet has attained the intermediate epochs of light and life (if not before), both groups of midway creatures are released from planetary duty. Sometimes the majority of them are translated, along with their human cousins, on the day of the descent of the temple of light and the elevation of the Planetary Prince to the dignity of Planetary Sovereign. Upon being relieved of planetary service, both orders are registered in the local universe as ascending Sons of God and immediately begin the long Paradise ascent by the very routes ordained for the progression of the mortal races of the material worlds. The primary group are destined to various finaliter corps, but the secondary or Adamic midwayers are all routed for enrollment in the Mortal Corps of Finality.

RE: Celestial artisans:

44:0:1 AMONG the courtesy colonies of the various divisional and universe headquarters worlds may be found the unique order of composite personalities denominated the celestial artisans. These beings are the master artists and artisans of the morontia and lower spirit realms. They are the spirits and semispirits who are engaged in morontia embellishment and in spiritual beautification. Such artisans are distributed throughout the grand universe — on the headquarters worlds of the superuniverses, the local universes, the constellations, and systems, as well as on all spheres settled in light and life; but their chief realm of activity is in the constellations and especially on the seven hundred seventy worlds surrounding each headquarters sphere.
Nigel NunnParticipant
Jun 12, 2016, 5:29 AM
Hi Bonita and Mara,

By “long-term”, I actually had in mind the relatively brief span of service of the 5th epochal revelation. Point being: think what it might mean to the Supreme if adjuster’ed 1st circlers could help to normalize the world without the need for power and glory and celestial light shows…

just thinking out loud

Nigel
BonitaParticipant
Jun 12, 2016, 3:10 PM

Nigel Nunn wrote: . . . think what it might mean to the Supreme if adjuster’ed 1st circlers could help to normalize the world without the need for power and glory and celestial light shows…

What do you mean by “normalize the world”?
BradlyParticipant
Jun 12, 2016, 7:55 PM

Nigel Nunn wrote:

Bonita wrote:

“How cool is that?We who have souls are already capable of living the morontia life, the heavenly life! All we have to do is identify it and own it; then, it’s like peace on earth. Sweet! The Spirit of Truth brings assurance and peace to the soul.” And for those keen to join the fun, notice how such soul-dwellers might help to restore the missing “Jerusem-perspective” the Prince’s staff (and Adam) were commissioned to plant as revelatory core for evolutionary paradigms. When you think about it, what’s so different between (A) a native of Urantia who has consecrated their short stay to gentle collaboration with the Most Highs working at this end of Michael’s “Way” — and who has digested the “Jerusem-perspective” via the 5th Epochal Revelation, and (B) some adventurous Jerusem volunteer who happens to have had the experience of waking up in the remedial mansion world nurseries? Which begs a question: on this decimal Urantia, the sentimental shrine of all Nebadon (1319.1, 119:8.8), can peaceful flocks of soul-dwellers replace the need for the usual super-human material administration? Is this part of the agondonter opportunity? Is this why adjusters flock, so that they can become one with peculiar humans — baby souls whose every fibre is laid down by raw choice, not by the intellectual compulsion imposed by growing up on a world where a non-native admin has been smoothing the way for 500,000 years? Thinking long-term here… Nigel

Thanks for this and the clarification Nigel!! I would agree that with a failed Prince and planetary headquarters and the later loss of the Garden and our Material Son and Daughter, that the Most Highs are uniquely challenged to move our world through the Mortal Epochs in new, creative ways. The gift of Michael’s bestowal and Spirit have catapulted our world into an accelerating experience of planetary evolution. I have long pondered how might a celestial/Son now arrive without revolutionary disruption of the evolutionary process and have also speculated that we might yet have much progress to realize only by the human power to embrace love and service and employ the 4th Revelation of God’s love and the family of all creation. This is your point if I understand it correctly.

The Master teaches, in both Bible and UB, that the kingdom is neither hither nor thither nor to come, but is here now for all who may to join; and further that truly embracing God and love and family with all our might and will naturally changes two things – our own perspective of reality and the evolutionary reality that we live within. We change our view of the world and the world itself with love and without divine interventions, apocalypse, fear, waiting, or long suffering – the change is immediate.

The Dali Lama teaches that the world approaches, one soul at a time, a moment of critical mass – that when enough people love enough, the world will be transformed by the inherent power of love itself.

We will eventually be blessed by on-planet celestial leadership that is visible I think at some point….but I recognize how powerful are the rulers of this world to lead us through the epochs of transformation by love and the Spirits fully engaged in mind/soul ministry that have seen profound results in but a short 100 generations. What might another 100 generations bring to planetary evolutionary progress? This world spawns billions of agondontors, a very rare breed in the family of creation, a vital ingredient of everlasting faith, perseverance, experience, and insight that only such faith children can bring to bear in eternity to come. The experiential Deity, the Supreme must delight that such a world as this still seeks and finds God and learns to love and serve one another.

Those who walk this planet are now charged with evolutionary progress through faith and by love. Let us be about the Father’s business of simply being in love and living the adventures at hand without undue anxiety about how it will all work out!! It will be okay…indeed it will be marvelous and extraordinary as well as thrilling in its uncertainties! Only the destination is certain, the journey remains adventurous…..oh, and totally safe for all who forge ahead! No need to wait for anything – live in the kingdom right now and realize the blessings which come thereby.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

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