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Adjutant intellect

72 posts · 9 participants · started Sep 5, 2018, 1:55 AM

BradlyParticipant
Mar 1, 2019, 6:27 PM
As I understand….self revelation does not derive by the Adjutants or any Spirit manifestations. It’s not given as in personal and epochal revelation. It is an inherent function of mind itself. All mind has the capacity to perceive, consider, discern, and determine by its own innate nature. This is why the name….”self” revelation….revelation by the self and to the self and for the self by the very function of the self and the mind itself. Personal revelation comes by the TA. Epochal from a celestial personality to a world.

Mortal minds, morontial minds, and spirit minds all have self revelation so I don’t agree that the soul is the only self for mortal self revelation or for epochal revelation either. Is it our soul devouring the facts and knowledge of the UB? Does the Jesusonian Gospel only have meaning and value to our soul but not also our minds? I do think the soul ALSO experiences self revelation and the truth realized by epochal revelation learned and applied….all mind experiences self revelation as described in Paper 16 and all mind can discover and discern and learn and be educated with knowledge as self revelation and epochal revelation provide. It is innate also in the human mind 6.11 and not just morontia mind.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Mar 1, 2019, 9:19 PM

Bradly wrote:

It is an inherent function of mind itself. All mind has the capacity to perceive, consider, discern, and determine by its own innate nature.

Yes, mind can perceive and process but discernment is a feature of personality. All of the cosmic mind reality responses require the presence of a personality to associate with them. These reality reflexes are not mind associating with mind, what good would that do? The reality recognition response is between mind and personality. After all, it is the personality that is striving to become more real, not the mind. Secondly, the Adjuster is a necessary component. Note in the next quote that there are three criteria that must be met. There must be a personality endowed with an individualized circuit of the cosmic mind which is hosting an Adjuster. Note it says cosmic mind, not adjutant mind. The adjutants are just part of the cosmic mind. They’re talking the whole shebang within an individualized little nebula.

16:9.1 The cosmic-mind-endowed, Adjuster-indwelt, personal creature possesses innate recognition-realization of energy reality, mind reality, and spirit reality. The will creature is thus equipped to discern the fact, the law, and the love of God. Aside from these three inalienables of human consciousness, all human experience is really subjective except that intuitive realization of validity attaches to the unification of these three universe reality responses of cosmic recognition.

111:1.2 There is a cosmic unity in the several mind levels of the universe of universes. Intellectual selves have their origin in the cosmic mind much as nebulae take origin in the cosmic energies of universe space.

Bradly wrote:

This is why the name….”self” revelation….revelation by the self and to the self and for the self by the very function of the self and the mind itself.

Think about that for a moment. What usefulness would that have in the universal scheme of things? When it comes to the universe, there is no such thing as a single self. A single, isolated self is a dead self. Furthermore, quote 16:6.10 says that self-revelation is a cosmic technique. Cosmic implies something greater than one’s own little self but rather the entire cosmos. For instance, evolution is a cosmic technique, and evolution is huge, it includes everything within time and space I think. Cosmic self-revelation is part of the process of cosmic self-realization, which simply means the self recognizing cosmic reality and becoming part of it. It’s all part of the cosmic circles of self progression where the self, or personality, becomes more real.

Bradly wrote:

Personal revelation comes by the TA. Epochal from a celestial personality to a world.

How are the words self and personal different? Self-revelation requires an Adjuster. Personal revelation requires an Adjuster. Seems pretty much like calling the Creative Spirit the Divine Minister. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Bradly wrote:

Is it our soul devouring the facts and knowledge of the UB?

First of all, TUB is a revelation of TRUTH. And yes it is our soul where the meanings of all the millions of words in TUB are made real. Even the authors say that they have no hope of us understanding their words without the indwelling Adjuster and the Spirit of Truth. So yeah, it is our soul devouring the words. Have you ever wondered why you can’t stay away from it even if you try?

The words in TUB are things/facts. When we reflect on these things/facts we are forming ideas and attempting to discover ideals or value. How do we recognize the value/truth? By allowing the Spirit of Truth to assist in lining up all the relationships between things and persons with cosmic reality. (Actually quote 101:6.7 says the Adjuster spiritizes them first and then passes them off to the Spirit of Truth.)

After we recognize these realities and realize how they relate to our lives through their interrelatedness, we then have to give them meaning by making them part of our mortal experience. We do that when the self/personality identifies with them and tries to live them. Meaning is what experience adds to value and happiness results from the recognition of truth because it can be acted out. Reality may exist outside of the soul but the reality recognition response occurs in the soul as a self or personal revelation of something of value, something so real and vital you can’t not want to live it and share it as part of your personality experience. Otherwise, reality recognition is a big waste of time. Who cares if you recognize the reality of a rock unless you do something with it that contributes to the cosmos. The purpose of reality recognition is to create a well balanced, socializing, personality with a noble character capable of correlating things, meanings and values on a cosmic scale for cosmic problem solving, and that’s what we call circle progress. It’s all interrelated.

Bradly wrote:

Does the Jesusonian Gospel only have meaning and value to our soul but not also our minds?

Your soul is your higher mind, but that aside, the mortal mind is on loan and gets weaned off the more you use your soul mind. The two higher adjutants stay on board full force until you’re dead though because they overlap the soul. They’re sorta the umbilical cord between material and morontia existence. But don’t forget that the soul is were everything is made new, where the mind is transformed, where the constant spiritual renewing of your mind takes place. If you’re not doing that, you’re dying.

143:2.4 “By the old way you seek to suppress, obey, and conform to the rules of living; by the new way you are first transformed by the Spirit of Truth and thereby strengthened in your inner soul by the constant spiritual renewing of your mind, and so are you endowed with the power of the certain and joyous performance of the gracious, acceptable, and perfect will of God.
GeneParticipant
Mar 1, 2019, 11:08 PM
“Have you ever wondered why you can’t stay away from it even if you try?”

Good observation and question worthy of a thread by itself.

Yeah. But I don’t try very hard.

UBG – ravity

i keep thinking I will understand it all in it’s intended entirety before this life ends or my brain dies first.

That’s assuming the various authors and the folks that authorized the revelation are united in their intentions.
BonitaParticipant
Mar 2, 2019, 2:16 PM

Gene wrote:

That’s assuming the various authors and the folks that authorized the revelation are united in their intentions.

That’s an odd thing to say. Can’t imagine what you mean by that.

Bradly wrote:

As I understand….self revelation does not derive by the Adjutants or any Spirit manifestations. It’s not given as in personal and epochal revelation. It is an inherent function of mind itself. All mind has the capacity to perceive, consider, discern, and determine by its own innate nature. This is why the name….”self” revelation….revelation by the self and to the self and for the self by the very function of the self and the mind itself.

I’ve been thinking about this all night and the more I think about it the less logical it becomes. First you say that mind is doing its own revealing because revelation is part of its very nature. Then you say that the self is revealing to itself. Is it the mind or is it the self that is revealing? Personally I don’t think either one are capable of revealing squat.

Why is the word self used in self-revelation, you ask. Because a personality is involved. How else would you have a self? If the personality is doing the revealing, then the personality is functioning as a god. The personality doesn’t have that power; it’s just a unifying pattern capable of choosing and recognizing other selves. First the self chooses the mind where revelation takes place; then after it’s glommed onto the reality of the revelation it chooses to find a way to make it work within the other mind it has access to. That’s where the Spirit of Truth comes in handy getting it ready for action within the life of the personality.

9:5.5 Because the Third Person is the source of mind, do not presume to reckon that all phenomena of mind are divine. Human intellect is rooted in the material origin of the animal races. Universe intelligence is no more a true revelation of God who is mind than is physical nature a true revelation of the beauty and harmony of Paradise. Perfection is in nature, but nature is not perfect. The Conjoint Creator is the source of mind, but mind is not the Conjoint Creator.

Mind is not the source of revelation. Personality is not the source of revelation. Spirit is the source of revelation. Mind interprets the meaning of revelation which leads to personality real-ization when acted upon.

Bradly wrote:I don’t agree that the soul is the only self for mortal self revelation or for epochal revelation either.

The soul isn’t a self unless the personality elects to claim it as part of its selfhood. The soul is a mind with a character but no personality.

Bradly wrote:all mind can discover and discern and learn and be educated with knowledge as self revelation and epochal revelation provide. It is innate also in the human mind 6.11 and not just morontia mind.

Actually, it’s not the mind alone that does the discovering and discerning when it comes to revelation. A dog can discern the difference between a rock and a piece of meat, but it cannot discern revelation. Personality must be present and also a soul. A personality without a soul is an animal. Revelation comes to us as a gift through spiritual insight, which is also a gift.
GeneParticipant
Mar 3, 2019, 4:55 PM

Bonita wrote:

Gene wrote:

That’s assuming the various authors and the folks that authorized the revelation are united in their intentions.

That’s an odd thing to say. Can’t imagine what you mean by that.

Simple humor, no real meaning.
BonitaParticipant
Mar 5, 2019, 11:55 AM
Hey Nigel, I’d like to get back to discussing the Bohm thesis. Would you mind if I dissect each paragraph and share my ideas as to how it pertains to TUB? Here’s the first one . . .

“To inquire into the question of how knowledge is to be understood as process, we first note that all knowledge is produced, displayed, communicated, transformed, and applied in thought. Thought, considered in its movement of becoming (and not merely in its content of relatively well-defined images and ideas) is indeed the process in which knowledge has its actual and concrete existence. (This has been discussed in the Introduction.)”

So I take it he’s asking how knowledge is assigned meaning. He states that all knowledge is a form of thought, and I agree with that. He then says that thought evolves which I also agree with. Finally, I think his last sentence is a little vague. It seems to me like he’s saying that the evolution of thought is the process by which knowledge itself exists, which makes no sense to me. My opinion is that all thought is in search of meaning, and it naturally evolves in that direction.

But I am taking liberty with definitions here. I do have to wonder how he’s defining knowledge and understanding. Is all knowledge automatically understood? No it is not. Scientists have warehouses of knowledge but only understand a thimbleful. So I hope he means that thought is always attempting to attach meaning (understanding) to perceived data (knowledge). If so, I concur. How about you?
BonitaParticipant
Mar 6, 2019, 2:28 PM
“What is the process of thought? Thought is, in essence, the active response of memory in every phase of life. We include in thought the intellectual, emotional, sensuous, muscular and physical responses of memory. These are all aspects of one indissoluble process. To treat them separately makes for fragmentation and confusion. All these are one process of response of memory to each actual situation, which response in turn leads to a further contribution to memory, thus conditioning the next thought.” Bohm

My theory is that baseline human thought is provided by the cosmic mind itself. Our minds, after all, are described as an individualized nebula of the cosmic mind. (9:5.4; 111:1.2) I don’t think the adjutants are individualized, but are rather circuit-like contacts which minister to and work in conjunction with that underlying mind.

9:5.4 The Conjoint Creator is the ancestor of the cosmic mind, and the mind of man is an individualized circuit, an impersonal portion, of that cosmic mind as it is bestowed in a local universe by a Creative Daughter of the Third Source and Center.

111:1.2 There is a cosmic unity in the several mind levels of the universe of universes. Intellectual selves have their origin in the cosmic mind much as nebulae take origin in the cosmic energies of universe space.

(483.11) 42:12.11 The liaison of the cosmic mind and the ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits evolve a suitable physical tabernacle for the evolving human being.

So the process of thought would be something provided by the adjutants themselves, arriving sequentially as brain growth provides capacity. I don’t think thought can be the active response of memory because that would mean thought is always looking backwards. We know that human mind/thought is capable of looking three ways: past, present and future. Even animals can think using both the past and present. So the idea seems a bit retrogressive to me.

With this statement: “We include in thought the intellectual, emotional, sensuous, muscular and physical responses of memory. ” Bohm is implying that memory is a mechanical feature involving both mind and body, a totally integrated and “indissoluble” event. Yet from my quote above (42:12.11), we know that evolution of the body is the result of mind ministry. The body is not the cause of mind evolution, but the other way around.

I’m wondering if the memories we take with us to the mansion worlds include the “sensuous, muscular and physical responses”? I doubt it, so I don’t think all memory has “indissoluble” components. Aside from that, I do think the body can be trained to perform in a certain pattern, but I don’t think I would call that memory. I’d call that physical patterning.

Going on, Bohm claims that dissolution of the parts of memory would cause a horrible mess and the individual would not be able to form the next thought if it occurred. Yet we know that the emotional mind does segment memory quite frequently. Psychiatrists have all kinds of names for the emergence of fragments of repressed memories. Most make their living on it.

I honestly cannot accept that all thought is completely dependent upon previous indissoluble memories from the past. Every thought would be based upon one single initial memory. I wonder what that memory would be specifically, in the womb perhaps? It seems that evolution would be ridiculously difficult if that were the case. I can’t picture it.
BonitaParticipant
Mar 7, 2019, 12:52 PM
One of the earliest and most primitive forms of thought is, for example, just the memory of pleasure or pain, in conjunction with a visual, auditory, or olfactory image that may be evoked by an object or a situation. It is common in our culture to regard memories involving image content as separate from those involving feeling. It is clear, however, that the whole meaning of such a memory is just the conjunction of the image with its feeling, which (along with the intellectual content and the physical reaction) constitutes the totality of the judgment as to whether what is remembered is good or bad, desirable or not, etc. – Bohm

I don’t think Bohm has any proof whatsoever concerning the first thought of an infant, or even a fetus. Pleasure and pain are only two of the many senses available to humans, and animals too. If the mind is working at birth, then it’s also working before birth. What is the source of pleasure and pain in utero? I’d say the opportunity for pain and pleasure in utero is infrequent. If Bohm is correct, one would have to surmise that a fetus has no brain activity most of the time other than the growth stimulated and determined by DNA.

So, meaning is derived from memory which is a combination of images, feelings, intellectual content and physical reaction. But wait! Didn’t Bohm also say that intelligence is an additional or superimposed energy source that can determine if memory is relevant to a given situation? How can intelligence be an actual part of memory and at the same time be superimposed upon that memory? Talking in circles again, I think. So now all of these 4 constituents of memory are also the source of judgment? I thought he said intelligence determined relevancy? More circles?

Bohm continues to say that all memories fall into only two categories, good /desirable and bad/undesirable. Are there no other kinds of memory available to humans? Perhaps the lowest animals only have these options, I don’t know, but what about humans? Doesn’t judgment require the self observing itself, or its memories, in order to determine if they’re worth anything at all? Or is this stuff wholly unconscious? I can’t make heads or tails of it, to be honest.
BonitaParticipant
Mar 8, 2019, 7:53 PM
It is clear that thought, considered in this way as the response of memory, is basically mechanical in its order of operation. Either it is a repetition of some previously existent structure drawn from memory, or else it is some combination arrangement and organization of these memories into further structures of ideas and concepts, categories, etc. These combinations may possess a certain kind of novelty resulting from the fortuitous interplay of elements of memory, but it is clear that such novelty is still essentially mechanical (like the new combinations appearing in a kaleidoscope). – Bohm

I’ve already commented on this paragraph, but again I see “the chicken or the egg” situation. First Bohm tells us that the earliest thought is a memory, but then goes on to tell us that thought is a response to memory. Well, which one is it? Is thought the cause of memory or the effect of memory? How can thought be both the cause and the effect of itself? (Circles again.) Bohm solves this problem by making thought mechanical and memory a mystical indissoluble experience of the senses, it just happens. Puff! Like magic. (I wish I could solve all my problems that way.)

Also, if all thought is just a mechanical kaleidoscopic rearrangement of past memories, then what happens with the present and the future? Does that mean that all thought is only about the past? I guess new memories are magic too? I’m pretty sure that thought begins with the here and now, then uses the past and future to reflect on the present before personality decides what to make of it. Also, human thought is capable of dreaming things up out of nothing. Where does that come from? I think it’s better than magic, it’s a superpower.

RELATED QUOTES

12:5.10 Unspiritual animals know only the past and live in the present. Spirit-indwelt man has powers of prevision (insight); he may visualize the future. Only forward-looking and progressive attitudes are personally real. Static ethics and traditional morality are just slightly superanimal. Nor is stoicism a high order of self-realization. Ethics and morals become truly human when they are dynamic and progressive, alive with universe reality.

118:1.4 Experience, wisdom, and judgment are the concomitants of the lengthening of the time unit in mortal experience. As the human mind reckons backward into the past, it is evaluating past experience for the purpose of bringing it to bear on a present situation. As mind reaches out into the future, it is attempting to evaluate the future significance of possible action. And having thus reckoned with both experience and wisdom, the human will exercises judgment-decision in the present, and the plan of action thus born of the past and the future becomes existent.

160:2.9 The present, when divorced from the past and the future, becomes exasperatingly trivial.
Nigel NunnParticipant
Mar 9, 2019, 12:42 AM
Hi Bonita,

Thanks for working through these paragraphs. You raise lots of interesting points!

One comment for now: your comments do not seem to relate to what he wrote; you appear to be addressing your misunderstandings, not his meanings?

Regarding human memory, and the more or less mechanical juggling of that “protoplasmic memory material“,

“The evolutionary type of knowledge is but the accumulation of protoplasmic memory material; this is the most primitive form of creature consciousness. […]” (1111.8, 101:6.4)

recall that for us (Adjuster-indwelt humans), our “memories” only survive the death of our psycho-somatic system in the form of a spirit transcript woven by the Adjuster:

“[…]: Mortal memory of human experience on the material worlds of origin survives death in the flesh because the indwelling Adjuster has acquired a spirit counterpart, or transcript, of those events of human life which were of spiritual significance. […]” (see 450.6, 40:9.4)

“[…]. The seraphim of assignment sponsors the new body, the morontia form, as the new life vehicle for the immortal soul and for the indwelling of the returned Adjuster. The Adjuster is the custodian of the spirit transcript of the mind of the sleeping survivor. […]” (341.5, 30:4.15)

Thus nothing from our material-memory subsystem needs to be salvaged. Which brings us back to our original exploration: what really is it that the Life Carriers have built, that the Adjutant circuits can animate such biological systems?

And what is the relationship between (A) that measurable, “protoplasmic memory material” (101:6.4) and (B) the intellect that resides in the “rhythmic pulsations (117:5.7)” of that level of consciousness (36:5.4) of the Divine Minister?

PS: I bumped into this (later) work by Bohm while looking for more about his (links: “pilot wave“, “movie” ) alternative to the Copenhagen confusion of Heisenberg and Bohr. Of all physicists, Bohm is the one most likely to have incorporated (unacknowledged) insights from the Urantia Book. Which makes both his physics and philosophy (hmm, and even his metaphysics) more interesting…

I’ll add something soon,

Nigel
BonitaParticipant
Mar 9, 2019, 1:09 PM

Nigel Nunn wrote:

One comment for now: your comments do not seem to relate to what he wrote; you appear to be addressing your misunderstandings, not his meanings?

Well, that’s the problem isn’t it? I don’t understand his meanings, so of course I’m going to try to figure out what I don’t understand.

Nigel Nunn wrote:

recall that for us (Adjuster-indwelt humans), our “memories” only survive the death of our psycho-somatic system in the form of a spirit transcript woven by the Adjuster:

Yeah, but . . . . The Adjuster keeps only the “spiritized factors of mind, memory, and creature personality’ (47:3.3).” The soul ” possesses all of the experiential memory of survival once held by the ancestral mortal mind and then resident in the morontia soul,” (110:7.5). Since the word mortal is applied to the physical life and not the morontia life (48:6.4), I think in 110:7.5 they are referring to the memorable events on earth with survival value.

113:3.4 And herein is revealed the reason why the seraphic guardian eventually becomes the personal custodian of the mind patterns, memory formulas, and soul realities of the mortal survivor during that interval between physical death and morontia resurrection.

The passive patterns of experiential memories are resident in the soul and after death they are activated by the returning Adjuster.

112:6.7 This evolving soul does, however, possess a continuing character derived from the decisions of its former associated adjutant mind, and this character becomes active memory when the patterns thereof are energized by the returning Adjuster.

112:6.8 The pattern of memory persists in the soul, but this pattern requires the presence of the former Adjuster to become immediately self-realizable as continuing memory. Without the Adjuster, it requires considerable time for the mortal survivor to re-explore and relearn, to recapture, the memory consciousness of the meanings and values of a former existence.

Nigel Nunn wrote:

what really is it that the Life Carriers have built, that the Adjutant circuits can animate such biological systems?

Well I don’t have that question because it’s been explained in TUB that life animates, not the adjutants (36:6.6). Adjutants direct animating life on the course of its evolution (36:2.18). To be more specific, the Adjutants are superimposed upon the Master Physical Controllers who are mind in contact with the mechanical aspects of a living system (36:5.14).

36:6.6 We speak of life as “energy” and as “force,” but it is really neither. Force-energy is variously gravity responsive; life is not. Pattern is also nonresponsive to gravity, being a configuration of energies that have already fulfilled all gravity-responsive obligations. Life, as such, constitutes the animation of some pattern-configured or otherwise segregated system of energy — material, mindal, or spiritual.

36:2.18 Mind such as man comprehends is an endowment of the seven adjutant mind-spirits superimposed on the nonteachable or mechanical levels of mind by the agencies of the Infinite Spirit.The life patterns are variously responsive to these adjutants and to the different spirit ministries operating throughout the universes of time and space. The capacity of material creatures to effect spirit response is entirely dependent on the associated mind endowment, which, in turn, has directionized the course of the biologic evolution of these same mortal creatures.

36:5.14 These mind-adjutants of a local universe Mother Spirit are related to creature life of intelligence status much as the power centers and physical controllers are related to the nonliving forces of the universe. They perform invaluable service in the mind circuits on the inhabited worlds and are effective collaborators with the Master Physical Controllers, who also serve as controllers and directors of the preadjutant mind levels, the levels of nonteachable or mechanical mind.

Nigel Nunn wrote:

And what is the relationship between (A) that measurable, “protoplasmic memory material” (101:6.4) and (B) the intellect that resides in the “rhythmic pulsations (117:5.7)” of that level of consciousness (36:5.4) of the Divine Minister?

I think all of the quotes I just gave you from paper 36 explain it. But perhaps you have a different definition for protoplasmic memory material than I do. Protoplasm is living. Life is an animating pattern for the energy within the protoplasm. The Master Physical Controllers are a mind energy which directs the mechanical non-teachable components of that life. Adjutant spirits are superimposed upon the Master Physical Conotrollers when the system is complex enough to begin learning. I believe memory requires some fundamental level of learning; I don’t think it can be mechanical. Protoplasmic memory is intellect itself, a level of consciousness, not a level of stored physical protoplasmic molecules kaleidoscopically arranged. Consciousness cannot be physical; it’s mindal. So, essentially I think you’re asking, “What is mind?” – No?

(1111.8) 101:6.4 The evolutionary type of knowledge is but the accumulation of protoplasmic memory material; this is the most primitive form of creature consciousness. Wisdom embraces the ideas formulated from protoplasmic memory in process of association and recombination, and such phenomena differentiate human mind from mere animal mind. Animals have knowledge, but only man possesses wisdom capacity.

Thanks Nigel for indulging me. It seems as though I’m disrespecting Bohm but I don’t mean it that way.
BonitaParticipant
Mar 10, 2019, 3:45 PM
Here’s something I can’t wrap my mind around:

Bohm declares that there are many responses to memory and includes intelligence as one:

“We include in thought the intellectual, emotional, sensuous, muscular and physical responses of memory.”

If I’ve read that right, intellectual responses to memory are part of thought. Question: Can there be an intellectual response without intellect or intelligence. My answer is no.

So, then we are told that thought, which includes intellectual responses according to the above, is both mechanical and conditioned:

“We have thus put together all the basically mechanical and conditioned responses of memory under one word or symbol, i.e. thought, and we have distinguished this from the fresh, original and unconditioned response of intelligence (or intelligent perception) in which something new may arise.”

But look there at the end of that statement. He suddenly informs us that intelligence is not part of thought!!!! It’s some kind of new non-mechanical energy apart from thought. First he tells us intelligence is part of thought and then he says it isn’t. What’s up with that????

He repeats it here:

“The perception of whether or not any particular thoughts are relevant or fitting requires the operation of an energy that is not mechanical, an energy that we shall call intelligence.”

Now either intellect/intelligence is part of thought or it isn’t. Which one is it? What is he talking about? Maybe we should give him license and just remove the word intellectual from the list of responses to memory? That would fix his problem with logic, I think.

Personally I think his idea of thought is what TUB calls mind. Intelligence is an adjutant ministry.
BonitaParticipant
Mar 11, 2019, 10:02 AM
Here’s another thing I don’t understand, and maybe it’s because I haven’t read the whole book, don’t know. Nigel, if you can explain it that would be great.

It seems to me that memory is the fundamental building block in Bohm’s schema. He defines various responses to memory with the word thought. If thought is a response to memory, then what is memory? Isn’t thought necessary for memory to exist in the first place? Or is he making memory a purely physical phenomenon?

In this quote we’re told that memory is formed through an intellectual process called recognition. Which means, I think, that memory is part of intelligence.

111:4.1 Recognition is the intellectual process of fitting the sensory impressions received from the external world into the memory patterns of the individual. Understanding connotes that these recognized sensory impressions and their associated memory patterns have become integrated or organized into a dynamic network of principles.
Nigel NunnParticipant
Mar 11, 2019, 10:49 AM
Hi Bonita,

First, apologies for my misuse of the word “animate“. As a child I learned that “to animate” [*] meant “to add mind to a living system”. After your comment, I went to the dictionary and found that this distinction did not carry over into English.

[*] from Latin animus (“the mind, in a great variety of meanings: the rational soul in man, intellect, consciousness, will, intention, courage, spirit, sensibility, feeling, passion, pride, vehemence, wrath, etc., the breath, life, soul”)

Regarding Bohm, the reason I brought up his work was simply the novelty (for me!) of the idea of the adjutant circuits enabling seven different “modes of perception into“ our inherent intellectual capacity. This (inherent, biological) capacity is what enables that sophisticated but more-or-less mechanical (kaleidoscopic) arrangement of “protoplasmic memory material”; the sort of sub-intelligent intellectual activity we find emerging in artificial “Generative Adversarial Networks” (link: GANS).

As we know, humans have the additional circuit “Wisdom (101:6.4)” with which to integrate and organize those arrangements!

(Regarding Bohm’s distinction between intelligence and intellect, philosophers have worked this over forever. Best we not confuse the two concepts!)

More importantly:

this probing of the nature, capacity and purpose of human mind got me thinking about the actual “birth of the soul“. From 133:6.5, we see that the birth of the soul is intimately connected with the arrival of the Adjuster,

“The divine spirit arrives simultaneously with the first moral activity of the human mind, and that is the occasion of the birth of the soul.” (1478.4, 133:6.5)

Question: does the Adjuster cause this morontia phenomenon?

In 111:2.10 we read about “the gradual birth of a soul“, due to “contactual spiritualization“.

Question: What role does the Adjuster play in this “gradual birth“?

(Thinking out loud,) since all references to soul birth and growth mention the crucial role of personal moral choice, my first thoughts go something like this: whereas the adjutant system makes it possible for us to discover, recognize and interpret, it takes a person, a wilful personality, to actually “choose“. When this choice is on a moral plane, there is some extraordinary repercussion that allows the Adjuster somehow to “spiritualize” that repercussion, and quite literally to weave it into the fabric of our soul. Which is why our souls are so breathtakingly lovely?

Thanks for continuing this exploration!

Nigel
BonitaParticipant
Mar 11, 2019, 12:27 PM

Nigel Nunn wrote:

“protoplasmic memory material”; the sort of sub-intelligent intellectual activity

I don’t think protoplasmic memory material is sub-intelligent. I think it is actual intelligence since memory requires recognition. See quote 111:4.1 in my last post.

Nigel Nunn wrote:

this probing of the nature, capacity and purpose of human mind got me thinking about the actual “birth of the soul“. From 133:6.5, we see that the birth of the soul is intimately connected with the arrival of the Adjuster,

Well, not all the time. It’s possible to have a soul without an Adjuster.

Nigel Nunn wrote:

Question: does the Adjuster cause this morontia phenomenon?

No. The divine spirit they’re referring to in that quote is the Holy Spirit.

Nigel Nunn wrote:

Question: What role does the Adjuster play in this “gradual birth“?

None at all. With the phrase contactual spiritualization they’re referring to the personal mind’s contact with the cosmic mind which is supermaterial. That, along with personality, assures evolution of the moral nature. Don’t forget that personality is intrinsically moral and is of supermaterial origin as well. They very carefully used the word spiritualization rather than spiritization. Spiritization is a function of the Adjuster.

Nigel Nunn wrote: Which is why our souls are so breathtakingly lovely?

Our souls are so breathtakingly lovely because of the spirit presences who live there. Otherwise, the soul is imperfect but salvageable.
Nigel NunnParticipant
Mar 12, 2019, 9:52 AM
Bonita wrote:

“No. The divine spirit they’re referring to in that quote is the Holy Spirit.“

Sorry to have missed this in previous discussions. Can you point me to a few places where I can read about the involvement of the Holy Spirit with the birth of our soul?

PS: My reason for calling our souls “breathtakingly lovely“ was because I thought they were made (literally woven) by the Adjuster from the spiritualized repercussion of our finest choices… ?

thanks for any pointers!

Nigel
BonitaParticipant
Mar 12, 2019, 12:41 PM
Nigel Nunn wrote:

Can you point me to a few places where I can read about the involvement of the Holy Spirit with the birth of our soul?

Hope this helps. Let me know if you will.

In this quote it states that the Adjusters cannot arrive until the material mind has been encircuited by the Holy Spirit, which means the Holy Spirit is essential to the existence of the soul.
- 108:2.2 The Adjusters cannot invade the mortal mind until it has been duly prepared by the indwelling ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits and encircuited in the Holy Spirit. And it requires the co-ordinate function of all seven adjutants to thus qualify the human mind for the reception of an Adjuster.
In this quote it explains that the adjutants prepare the mind for the coming of the Holy Spirit. When all seven are functioning the individual enters the seventh psychic circle which includes the arrival of the personal presence of the Divine Minister, the Holy Spirit.
- 36:5.16 The adjutant mind-spirits are in no manner directly related to the diverse and highly spiritual function of the spirit of the personal presence of the Divine Minister, the Holy Spirit of the inhabited worlds; but they are functionally antecedent to, and preparatory for, the appearance of this very spirit in evolutionary man. The adjutants afford the Universe Mother Spirit a varied contact with, and control over, the material living creatures of a local universe, but they do not repercuss in the Supreme Being when acting on prepersonality levels.
In this quote it states that encircuitment by the Holy Spirit occurs with entrance into the seventh psychic circle.
- 110:6.13 The seventh circle. This level is entered when human beings develop the powers of personal choice, individual decision, moral responsibility, and the capacity for the attainment of spiritual individuality. This signifies the united function of the seven adjutant mind-spirits under the direction of the spirit of wisdom, the encircuitment of the mortal creature in the influence of the Holy Spirit, and, on Urantia, the first functioning of the Spirit of Truth, together with the reception of a Thought Adjuster in the mortal mind. Entrance upon the seventh circle constitutes a mortal creature a truly potential citizen of the local universe.
This next quote goes further to explain how the adjutants sponsor the mind prior to the arrival of the Holy Spirit, who is the next level of mind after the adjutant level. The supermind is a superadjutant manifestation of the personality of the Creative Spirit. It also states that the Holy Spirit is the first supermind endowment, which implies there are more to come. The quote also makes clear that the soul does not require the presence of the Adjuster.
- 103:0.1 ALL of man’s truly religious reactions are sponsored by the early ministry of the adjutant of worship and are censored by the adjutant of wisdom. Man’s first supermind endowment is that of personality encircuitment in the Holy Spirit of the Universe Creative Spirit; and long before either the bestowals of the divine Sons or the universal bestowal of the Adjusters, this influence functions to enlarge man’s viewpoint of ethics, religion, and spirituality. Subsequent to the bestowals of the Paradise Sons the liberated Spirit of Truth makes mighty contributions to the enlargement of the human capacity to perceive religious truths. As evolution advances on an inhabited world, the Thought Adjusters increasingly participate in the development of the higher types of human religious insight. The Thought Adjuster is the cosmic window through which the finite creature may faith-glimpse the certainties and divinities of limitless Deity, the Universal Father.
This next quote describes the hierarchy of mortal mind ministry beginning with the physical controllers, the adjutants and finally the Holy Spirit.
- 113:3.2 More especially can and does this seraphic guardian correlate the manifold agencies and influences of the Infinite Spirit, ranging from the domains of the physical controllers and the adjutant mind-spirits up to the Holy Spirit of the Divine Minister and to the Omnipresent Spirit presence of the Paradise Third Source and Center. Having thus unified and made more personal these vast ministries of the Infinite Spirit, the seraphim then undertakes to correlate this integrated influence of the Conjoint Actor with the spirit presences of the Father and the Son.
Here again the hierarchy of mind ministry is described. First the physical controllers, then the adjutants, and finally the supermind of the Creative Spirit.
- 36:5.15 Living mind, prior to the appearance of capacity to learn from experience, is the ministry domain of the Master Physical Controllers. Creature mind, before acquiring the ability to recognize divinity and worship Deity, is the exclusive domain of the adjutant spirits. With the appearance of the spiritual response of the creature intellect, such created minds at once become superminded, being instantly encircuited in the spirit cycles of the local universe Mother Spirit.
In this quote it explains that encircuitment of the personal presence of the Creative Spirit, the Holy Spirit, provides a new level of mind to the individual called the supermind. But this only happens after the worship craving spirit of worship and the wisdom desiring spirit of wisdom is active in the material mind.
- 92:0.4 3. The Holy Spirit–this is the initial supermind bestowal, and it unfailingly appears in all bona fide human personalities. This ministry to a worship-craving and wisdom-desiring mind creates the capacity to self-realize the postulate of human survival, both in theologic concept and as an actual and factual personality experience.
In this quote it explains the function of the supermind, the Holy Spirit. The personal presence of the Creative Spirit in the soul provides spiritual reason and soul intelligence.
- 101.3.2 Faith-insight, or spiritual intuition, is the endowment of the cosmic mind in association with the Thought Adjuster, which is the Father’s gift to man. Spiritual reason, soul intelligence, is the endowment of the Holy Spirit, the Creative Spirit’s gift to man. Spiritual philosophy, the wisdom of spirit realities, is the endowment of the Spirit of Truth, the combined gift of the bestowal Sons to the children of men. And the co-ordination and interassociation of these spirit endowments constitute man a spirit personality in potential destiny.
This quote describes the supermind as the liaison domain between the human mind and the Adjuster, meaning soul.
- 110:5.3 During the slumber season the Adjuster attempts to achieve only that which the will of the indwelt personality has previously fully approved by the decisions and choosings which were made during times of fully wakeful consciousness, and which have thereby become lodged in the realms of the supermind, the liaison domain of human and divine interrelationship.
In this quote it states that the ministry of the Holy Spirit is a mind ministry which facilitates recognition of the Adjuster.
- 34:5.4 When mind is thus endowed with the ministry of the Holy Spirit, it possesses the capacity for (consciously or unconsciously) choosing the spiritual presence of the Universal Father–the Thought Adjuster. But it is not until a bestowal Son has liberated the Spirit of Truth for planetary ministry to all mortals that all normal minds are automatically prepared for the reception of the Thought Adjusters. The Spirit of Truth works as one with the presence of the spirit of the Divine Minister. This dual spirit liaison hovers over the worlds, seeking to teach truth and to spiritually enlighten the minds of men, to inspire the souls of the creatures of the ascending races, and to lead the peoples dwelling on the evolutionary planets ever towards their Paradise goal of divine destiny.
Here again we are informed about the superadjutant endowment of the Creative Spirit, previously described as the Holy Spirit, in addition to the cosmic mind, is what we are left with after being weaned off adjutant mind ministry.
- 110:6.21 The seven circles embrace mortal experience extending from the highest purely animal level to the lowest actual contactual morontia level of self-consciousness as a personality experience. The mastery of the first cosmic circle signalizes the attainment of premorontia mortal maturity and marks the termination of the conjoint ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits as an exclusive influence of mind action in the human personality. Beyond the first circle, mind becomes increasingly akin to the intelligence of the morontia stage of evolution, the conjoined ministry of the cosmic mind and the superadjutant endowment of the Creative Spirit of a local universe.
In this quote we’re told that the soul is superadjutant, as is the Holy Spirit.
- 112:6.7 Mortal mind, prior to death, is self-consciously independent of the Adjuster presence; adjutant mind needs only the associated material-energy pattern to enable it to operate. But the morontia soul, being superadjutant, does not retain self-consciousness without the Adjuster when deprived of the material-mind mechanism. This evolving soul does, however, possess a continuing character derived from the decisions of its former associated adjutant mind, and this character becomes active memory when the patterns thereof are energized by the returning Adjuster.
In this next quote we are told that the adjutants minister to the physical level of intellect, but the ministry of the Holy Spirit is considered a different level of ministry, as explained prior, a superadjutant ministry. The adjutants register experience in the mind of Supremacy, but the personal presence of the Creative Spirit, aka Holy Spirit, is able to register experience in the person of Supremacy. The soul is a personal phenomenon. It is not possible to have a soul without a personality, therefore it requires the cooperation of both a mortal and divine personality. The Holy Spirit is the initial divine personality contribution to the soul, functioning long before the arrival of the other two representatives of the Trinity.
- 117:5.10 The mind-experience accumulations of the seven adjutant mind-spirits, in their ministry to the physical level of intellect, are a part of the local universe experience of the Divine Minister, and through this Creative Spirit they probably find registry in the mind of Supremacy. Likewise are mortal experiences with the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Spirit probably registered by similar techniques in the person of Supremacy.
This next quote specifies the role of the seraphim and why they are chosen as the guardians of the soul.
- 113:3.4 And herein is revealed the reason why the seraphic guardian eventually becomes the personal custodian of the mind patterns, memory formulas, and soul realities of the mortal survivor during that interval between physical death and morontia resurrection. None but the ministering children of the Infinite Spirit could thus function in behalf of the human creature during this phase of transition from one level of the universe to another and higher level. Even when you engage in your terminal transition slumber, when you pass from time to eternity, a high supernaphim likewise shares the transit with you as the custodian of creature identity and the surety of personal integrity.
BonitaParticipant
Mar 12, 2019, 12:50 PM

Nigel Nunn wrote:

PS: My reason for calling our souls “breathtakingly lovely“ was because I thought they were made (literally woven) by the Adjuster from the spiritualized repercussion of our finest choices… ?

The Adjusters thread spirit patterns on the morontia fabric of the soul but those patterns belong to them. We humans contribute, but we can destroy the thing if we want to. The Adjusters keep the good parts, the parts where we participated in doing God’s will. God will treasure that experience forever. We don’t have to, which makes the whole thing rather imperfect. Lovely yes, perfect no.

1:5.15 The absolute perfection of the infinite God would cause him to suffer the awful limitations of unqualified finality of perfectness were it not a fact that the Universal Father directly participates in the personality struggle of every imperfect soul in the wide universe who seeks, by divine aid, to ascend to the spiritually perfect worlds on high. This progressive experience of every spirit being and every mortal creature throughout the universe of universes is a part of the Father’s ever-expanding Deity-consciousness of the never-ending divine circle of ceaseless self-realization.
BonitaParticipant
Mar 13, 2019, 12:02 PM
Hi Nigel, I’ve been thinking about your question concerning 133:6.5 and its reference to the divine spirit. I said that the divine spirit Jesus was referring to is the Holy Spirit. I said that because I am assuming he was describing the birth of the soul prior to Pentecost when not all people automatically received Adjusters upon entering the seventh psychic circle. If for some reason he was referring only to Adjuster indwelt souls, then the divine spirit he spoke of would be the Adjuster. Either way, the soul is distinct from the divine spirit who indwells it, regardless of the spirit’s source. The soul is a co-created entity initiated by the first moral activity of the human material mind which results in encircuitment by the Holy Spirit, its initial source of spirit input necessary to create morontia substance. The Holy Spirit is also the necessary lens by which the Adjuster is recognized whenever he does arrive (34:5.4).

(1478.4) 133:6.5 “The soul is the self-reflective, truth-discerning, and spirit-perceiving part of man which forever elevates the human being above the level of the animal world. Self-consciousness, in and of itself, is not the soul. Moral self-consciousness is true human self-realization and constitutes the foundation of the human soul, and the soul is that part of man which represents the potential survival value of human experience. Moral choice and spiritual attainment, the ability to know God and the urge to be like him, are the characteristics of the soul. The soul of man cannot exist apart from moral thinking and spiritual activity. A stagnant soul is a dying soul. But the soul of man is distinct from the divine spirit which dwells within the mind. The divine spirit arrives simultaneously with the first moral activity of the human mind, and that is the occasion of the birth of the soul.

34:5.4 When mind is thus endowed with the ministry of the Holy Spirit, it possesses the capacity for (consciously or unconsciously) choosing the spiritual presence of the Universal Father–the Thought Adjuster.

When you asked this:

Nigel Nunn wrote:

Question: does the Adjuster cause this morontia phenomenon?

I should say that it is my understanding that the morontia substance of the soul is created by two sources, one material and one spiritual. The initial spiritual source is the Holy Spirit regardless if a soul becomes indwelt by an Adjuster. Once an Adjuster arrives, he works as one with the Holy Spirit, and also the Spirit of Truth once he is poured out upon all flesh, to provide the spiritual source for the ongoing morontial substance of the soul. If the Holy Spirit is not the initial source of spiritual material contributing to the birth of the soul, then prior to Pentecost there would have been people walking around without souls.

As I understand it, to be considered a bona fide human being there must be a soul. Until a soul is born, when only 6 adjutants are present, the individual is considered superanimal. Presence of the seventh adjutant indicates the presence of purposeful moral activity which immediately brings the Holy Spirit who establishes the morontia soul and qualifies the individual as human. From that point on soul growth occurs “in and of itself” unless it’s specifically inhibited.

I would say that Cain had a soul even though he killed his half-brother in a fit of rage. I say that because he was constantly arguing with Abel about the value of their vocations and offerings to the priests. It was not the arguing but the search for value that seems indicative of an active adjutant of wisdom and thus some level of soul presence – the desire to find “the best” (see 103:01 below). And it would be Cain’s eventual desire for divine guidance (the best of the best), that brought an Adjuster. I don’t think Cain would have sought divine guidance without having a soul urging him on. So, I guess what I’m saying is that I believe Cain initially had a soul without an Adjuster like described in 103:0.1:

103:0.1 All of man’s truly religious reactions are sponsored by the early ministry of the adjutant of worship and are censored by the adjutant of wisdom. Man’s first supermind endowment is that of personality encircuitment in the Holy Spirit of the Universe Creative Spirit; and long before either the bestowals of the divine Sons or the universal bestowal of the Adjusters, this influence functions to enlarge man’s viewpoint of ethics, religion, and spirituality.

Hopefully I’m making myself clearer and not just yakking.
Nigel NunnParticipant
Mar 13, 2019, 1:01 PM
Bonita wrote:

“Hopefully I’m making myself clearer…”

Hi Bonita – actually, I think your insights are intensifying the magnificent mystery of our morontia souls

(189.6, 16:4.5) “Unquestionably […] we are face to face with certain of the unrevealed activities of the Master Spirits. Who, aside from these ancestors of both physical controllers and spirit ministers, could have contrived so to combine and associate material and spiritual energies as to produce a hitherto nonexistent phase of universe reality — morontia substance and morontia mind?“

Lots to ponder! I’ll add some quotes and notes soon,

Nigel

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